I hope this isn't the norm

Ferno · Post by **Ferno** » Wed Dec 08, 2004 11:54 am

"the average canadian is busy dogsledding"?

http://mediamatters.org/static/video/cc ... 010011.wmv

So let me get this straight.. it's okay to bag on canadians, but when a canadian bags on you they're suddenly anti-american? smells like hypocrisy to me.

Phoenix Red · Post by **Phoenix Red** » Wed Dec 08, 2004 12:11 pm

yay fox news

ignorance isn't unique to the US, but they do a good job of publicising it down there

Tyranny · Post by **Tyranny** » Wed Dec 08, 2004 2:27 pm

and you called me a tight @$$? lol

I'm amazed at how easily the extremes get on television anymore. They think that they are of any importance whatsoever and they're completely wrong. In the scheme of things their ideas and opinions make very little difference and half the time they just get on tv to piss people off. Thats how they make their money.

Unfortunately I can't say that some people don't agree with them but of course we are a very ignorant country

Anyways, some nuts on tv do not a country make. Thankfully.

Gooberman · Post by **Gooberman** » Wed Dec 08, 2004 5:42 pm

Fox News it the Jerry Springer of the Media: Only they are much more harmful.

CNN is like, Jenny Jones.

If only Ann Coulter would flash the Camera

Sirian · Post by **Sirian** » Wed Dec 08, 2004 10:07 pm

Strangely enough, FOX News aired an interview with a Canadian professor who claimed that President Bush should be brought up on war charges. Does that mean that FOX has endorsed that point of view?

Sitting right next to Ann Coulter was Ellis Hennican, and he did a fine job of illustrating how silly Ann was being with her over the top rhetoric. No credit to FOX for being fair and balanced, though, at least from the likes of Gooberman.

Letting those from the far left and the far right have occasional air time reminds most of us why it is good to live in the center.

Ann Coulter is a bomb thrower. So is Rush. So is Al Franken, Michael Moore, Barbra Streisand. I don't see Ferno pointing out the hypocrisies of the left wing, though. Why is that?

- Sirian

Ferno · Post by **Ferno** » Thu Dec 09, 2004 1:59 am

"I don't see Ferno pointing out the hypocrisies of the left wing, though. Why is that?"

if you want to accuse me of something, how about you be a man and just say it. don't try and insinuate. I don't take kindly to attacks.

"Strangely enough, FOX News aired an interview with a Canadian professor who claimed that President Bush should be brought up on war charges. Does that mean that FOX has endorsed that point of view?"

I don't know what exactly the canadian professor had to say because I didn't see the interview myself. Does he speak for the majority? I'm betting no. he only speaks for himself and other like-minded people. We don't even know if FOX endorses that point of view or not.

Sirian · Post by **Sirian** » Thu Dec 09, 2004 3:57 am

Ferno wrote:don't try and insinuate.

This from Mr. "Tell me you didn't just call gays defective." Wake up and smell the rest of the hypocrisy.

Ferno wrote:I don't take kindly to attacks.

How about answering the question. I don't see you pointing out hypocrisies on the left wing. Why is that?

- Sirian

Phoenix Red · Post by **Phoenix Red** » Thu Dec 09, 2004 4:05 am

Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't see any wing in that clip. Just a bunch of assinine comments from people who don't know or care what they're talking about.

Will Robinson · Post by **Will Robinson** » Thu Dec 09, 2004 8:12 am

I know they were rude but it's not that big of a deal because most Canadians will never hear it since it was on T.V.
Everyone knows the majority of homes don't have electricity up there and no one gets a newspaper delivered until after the spring thaw.

Gooberman · Post by **Gooberman** » Thu Dec 09, 2004 11:45 am

Sitting right next to Ann Coulter was Ellis Hennican, and he did a fine job of illustrating how silly Ann was being with her over the top rhetoric. No credit to FOX for being fair and balanced, though, at least from the likes of Gooberman.

Rofl, so you think Fox news is balanced?

Tell me a Liberal on prime time fox that has his own show? Bill Oreilly, "The Record," That guy that looks like eddie munster. Heartland, Cal, that guy who has the "my word" segment, Geraldo, Oliver North. conservative, conservative, conservative.

Come on Sirian, name them. Name these liberals that have their own show. If you honestly think fox is "fair and balanced" then you are an idiot, or don't really watch it, there is just no way to soften that.

Lets look at "The Record", how much time did they spend on the Peterson case? Why? Peterson wasn't famous, there are thousands of cases of men killing their wives that arn't looked at in that much detail. I will give you the answer: She was pregnant. Abortion, does the child count as being murdered? etc.

I have seen numerous discussions on Hanity and Colmes, similar to the one we just saw with Ann Coulter. How many times when discussing affirmative action does Hanity have a Black man to argue on his side, and Colmes has a white guy. How biased, and more importantly, grossly statistically unrealistic is that?

Or lets look and fox's news segments. Three weeks ago there was an entire friggin week long segment on "The war on Christianity". You have to be kidding me. Where is the balance Sirian? Where is the weeklong segment on "The war on Islam".....uh oh, you can't be conservative and say that!

Casualties: The other day I was watching fox news, they had stories about how rough it has impacted the families of soldiers. They talked to one guy who lost his arm. I said to myself, "this is wierd," I checked the stations...I was watching CNN!!! Because Fox never gets into the pain of war any deeper then body counts.

Day Side: How often does the audience just flat out boo liberals who criticize the president?

Even the news articles are tailer made to interest conservatives.

The liberals brought on the conservative shows: How often are they grosly uninformed about the actual positions of the left? I feel like I'm watching my neice play jepordy. I want to shout out the anwsers to them, while they just stumble around! They intentionally put uninformed liberals up against experienced conservatives to give the illusion that conservatives are "obviously right."

If you want I will go on. But seriously, if you think fox is "fair and balanced" wake the ★■◆● up. Name the liberals that have their own show.

Gooberman · Post by **Gooberman** » Thu Dec 09, 2004 11:56 am

As a footnote: The Jerry springer comment was commenting on how they pit people against eachother whom they know will just "shout it out." CNN does the same thing, as is why I also criticized cnn. Yet you made no reference to my thinking CNN wasn't fair and balenced though.

*shrug*

Gooberman · Post by **Gooberman** » Thu Dec 09, 2004 12:02 pm

lef ef

Ferno · Post by **Ferno** » Thu Dec 09, 2004 12:02 pm

"How about answering the question. I don't see you pointing out hypocrisies on the left wing. Why is that? "

Oh believe you me, there are a lot. biggest one would be (people are gonna hate me for this) feminists. they love to preach equal rights but when it comes to equal responsibility.. oh no can't have that. They sure love to say how independent they are, but they seem to forget that when it comes to child support, alimony, and other kinds of 'support'. then they need the guy's money like an addict needs crack.

"This from Mr. "Tell me you didn't just call gays defective." Wake up and smell the rest of the hypocrisy."

heh you never did answer this. Now do you believe they are or are they not (pretty irrelevant to the topic at hand, but what the hell...) but i see you decided to use it as ammo.

Sirian · Post by **Sirian** » Thu Dec 09, 2004 1:31 pm

Gooberman wrote:Tell me a Liberal on prime time fox that has his own show?

Greta van Susteren.

FOX News prime time: O'Reilly, leans conservative. Hannity and Colmes, 50/50 debate show, equal air time for each side of the aisle. On the Record with Greta, leans liberal. (She's a Democrat and a lawyer.)

FOX 1, Gooberman 0.

- Sirian

Sirian · Post by **Sirian** » Thu Dec 09, 2004 1:56 pm

Ferno wrote:Oh believe you me, there are a lot.

And you provided one example. So the answer is not that you don't dish out to the left, too, but that in my brief time back, I just haven't seen it yet. Fair enough.

Ferno wrote:i see you decided to use it as ammo.

If you're going to call me out for insinuation, it's fair game to point out that you dished the same to me, and you did it first. I'm not the one who declared that use of insinuation means somebody is less than a man. That was your idea. Maybe you want to rethink that one?

Ferno wrote:heh you never did answer this.

I answered your one liner with a no liner. In this particular instance, I found that to be a fair exchange of content.

- Sirian

Sirian · Post by **Sirian** » Thu Dec 09, 2004 2:05 pm

Gooberman wrote:CNN does the same thing, as is why I also criticized cnn. Yet you made no reference to my thinking CNN wasn't fair and balenced though.

My reply was not based solely on these comments taken in isolation. Your reply to my reply validated my judgement, so I'm not sure what you are complaining about here.

Is FOX always fair and balanced in every show segment? No. Sometimes they bring on two Democrats and give them all the air time.

Truly.

An independent study of the major broadcast news shows and equivalent broadcast shows on the cable news networks showed that Brit Hume's show was the ONLY one measured that leaned conservative in how it portrayed Bush vs Kerry. (Bush got 2% more favorable coverage than Kerry on that show). CBS was the next closest with 3% differential, in favor of Kerry. The worst was ABC with a 13% differential.

So yes, FOX does lean conservative, but a hair's width only, and is closest of them all to truly being fair. The rest all lean liberal, some dramatically so. This according to an independent study. But sure, go ahead, bury your head in the sand and pretend that FOX is the one out of touch and all is hunky dorry in the rest of the news world.

As for "Jerry Springer", how would you reform the process? How are we the public to become informed unless we hear opposing views? Would you prefer that we engage censorship? Who should get to decide who is qualified to be heard or not?

- Sirian

Gooberman · Post by **Gooberman** » Thu Dec 09, 2004 3:41 pm

Greta van Susteren

You have got to be kidding me. Look at the content of her show, look at the stories she covers! Two nights ago it was how the Cross is being removed from some symbol in California. Is that a left issue? The Peterson case absolutely dominated her show, is that a 'left' court case? Ask yourself why Peterson got so much attention. In addition to all of this, she hardly discusses politics, she mainly just does feature stories and court cases that are relavent to the right wing agenda.

You completely skimmed all the other conservative names I listed who have their own shows. You cannot even come close to making a "balanced" argument for fox news. And the reason you did this is because you know that you have no leg to stand on.

Even if I give you Gretta, which I don't....at all... that is:

Left:1 Right:9

"a hair's width" is just wrong. You are uninformed, or are intentionally being misleading.

study. But sure, go ahead, bury your head in the sand and pretend that FOX is the one out of touch and all is hunky dorry in the rest of the news world.

Why do you do this in every thread I respond to you in? This is not the topic, you always slightly try and pull me into an argument that you feel you are on better ground. If you're unprepared to argue that fox is balanced, then don't bring my name into it when I say it isn't. If you want me to argue that all the other media is balanced, then you will have to wait until I come remotely close to making such a claim!

Ferno · Post by **Ferno** » Fri Dec 10, 2004 2:18 am

"I answered your one liner with a no liner. In this particular instance, I found that to be a fair exchange of content."

Sounds like a good idea.. If I don't like one of your questions to me or if I don't believe it has content I'll just not answer it. Deal?

"So the answer is not that you don't dish out to the left, too, but that in my brief time back, I just haven't seen it yet."

remember how I beat the crap out of Rican for his left-wing ideas and hypocrisy?

Also, the scott peterson trial. Just because she was pregnant means she's more important than the thousands of other cases like this? How about all the cases where the pregnant woman kills the husband? oh that's right.. it's okay because she had 'the vapors' or 'she was emotional'. how bout you take some freakin accountability instead of blaming your actions on somehting else like you always do? Another example of left sided hypocrisy in action.

"I'm not the one who declared that use of insinuation means somebody is less than a man."

just a tad off base on this one. you can be the big man on campus(just using that as an expression and that's it), but if you're going to insinuate stuff, I'll call you on it. Also, I never denied insinuating stuff. In fact that's part of who I am. I'm just a little suprised you never asked me what I meant in the insinuations.

"So yes, FOX does lean conservative, but a hair's width only, and is closest of them all to truly being fair. The rest all lean liberal, some dramatically so. This according to an independent study. But sure, go ahead, bury your head in the sand and pretend that FOX is the one out of touch and all is hunky dorry in the rest of the news world."

I think the clip I posted is an example that FOX is high on sensationalizing the news. that's the main reason why I don't have a cable TV hookup, nor want one. Also, a 'hair's width'? Watching Q13 (FOX News) up here makes me scratch my head and wonder how people don't spot the right side bias and just bad reporting. Saying FOX news leans a 'hair's width' towards the right is like saying CNN leans a 'hair's width' towards the left, which we all know is a complete farce.

Also, I like how you post 'an independent study' without linking to it. I don't buy this 'independent study' thing one bit. Why? example: 'an independent study says that caucasian men have a 51% chance of obtaining immortality whereas norwegan man only have a 43% chance'. now no one's going to find the independent study I just posted because I pulled it out of my ass.

sheepdog · Post by **sheepdog** » Fri Dec 10, 2004 2:35 pm

Ferno wrote: Oh believe you me, there are a lot. biggest one would be (people are gonna hate me for this) feminists. they love to preach equal rights but when it comes to equal responsibility.. oh no can't have that. They sure love to say how independent they are, but they seem to forget that when it comes to child support, alimony, and other kinds of 'support'. then they need the guy's money like an addict needs crack.

Erm don't feel like you have to respond to this, I don't want to distract you from your topic, but I'm not sure how this is an issue related to feminism. That's just certain individuals among us women folk who say one thing and do another. It's kind of like some American conservatives are big mouthed sluts who bait Canadians for ratings, that doesn't mean that all conservatives are like that, right Syrian?

Ferno · Post by **Ferno** » Sat Dec 11, 2004 1:49 am

Margo: i realize that there are exceptions to every rule, but I was speaking about the rule itself. You are the exception, and I wish more feminists are like you. it would make for a better place to live.

sheepdog · Post by **sheepdog** » Sat Dec 11, 2004 7:40 am

Well, lucky for me that most real women (who are born with real feminism in their bones) don't know about the DBB. Course that's their bad luck because they don't get the chance to get to know what real men are really like. Lucky for me though because if more real women were around here, it'd become obvious that I'm a pretty sorry example of one.*

Well that was extremely convoluted, even for me!

Okay, Ferno. Thanks and back to kickin arse on the reactionary lowlifes who don't know shiat about Canadians. I'll give her a dogsled right up the butt if she ain't careful!

Margo

*Speaking of real real women, how dat Sfuzzi doing these days? She's still playing right?

Sirian · Post by **Sirian** » Sat Dec 11, 2004 8:35 pm

Ferno wrote:no one's going to find the independent study I just posted because I pulled it out of my ***.

You jumped down into the muck with this thread from the outset. Instead of focusing on clips of any substance, you went on a witch hunt. What did you hope to accomplish? I read it as a cheap shot in passing at the right. If you had focused your attack on the specific people involved, that would have been one thing. Insinuating that "I hope this isn't the norm" is quite something else.

I confronted you, but that was a mistake. I should have treated this thread as the zero content trolling that it is.

- Sirian

Ferno · Post by **Ferno** » Sat Dec 11, 2004 8:43 pm

"I should have treated this thread as the zero content trolling that it is."

lol. assume all you want. I'm not going to stop you. besides, you seem to have this deposition to defend the right as if they've done nothing wrong.

just remember.. I may insinuate. but I'm not deceptive.

and Margo, thanks.

Tyranny · Post by **Tyranny** » Sat Dec 11, 2004 9:01 pm

sheepdog wrote:*Speaking of real real women, how dat Sfuzzi doing these days? She's still playing right?

I haven't seen or talked to her in years

Sirian · Post by **Sirian** » Sat Dec 11, 2004 9:14 pm

Gooberman wrote:Even if I give you Gretta, which I don't....at all... that is:

Left:1 Right:9

Greta's a Democrat. That's a fact. You said to name one and I did.

Looking just at the Prime Time shows, there are the three I mentioned: O'Reilly, Hannity/Colmes, and Greta. That's one conservative, one balanced duo, and one liberal. In that three hour block, the show hosts are balanced.

If we extend to the early evening shows, then you would have a point. There are three of those: Cavuto, Gibson, and Hume. All three are conservative. If we throw in Fox and Friends for three more hours in the morning, that show is also conservative. Dayside audiences lean conservative, too, so yes, we'd have ten hours of opinion shows or news magazines, and only Greta's is hosted by a liberal. On the weekends, though, Geraldo is also a liberal, and I honestly don't know where Rita Cosby leans. I think of her as liberal because of her show content, but that may be a mistake.

You score 9 to 1, but that's distorted. Brit Hume's show is akin to Meet the Press. He does some limited hard news reporting, and he does it objectively. He interviews one guest at length for two segments, and that's objective. Then the show closes with two segments of editorial, and usually the balance there is conservative. There are about ten or twelve "Fox all stars" who take turns giving opinions at the round table. About a third are moderate liberals, about a third are moderate conservatives, and about a third are strict conservatives. There are no strict liberals, so clearly these panels lean to the right. They are not radical, though. They are merely leaned, the same as This Week With David Brinkley was leaned for twenty years, but leaning liberal. On Brinkley's show, there was Sam Donaldson, Kokie Roberts, and George Will, plus the host. Three to one, but really only two to one since the host was not giving opinions.

Gibson's show is also only slightly leaned to the right. Cavuto's show is about business, which itself tends to lean right. So even though we have three shows here, all hosted by conservatives, none are more than slightly off center.

Now Fox and Friends... that's another story. Three conservatives sitting around talking about the news and slanting with their opinions. It's hard right. Some of the anchors during the hard news hours slant to the right, as well, which is not good. When you can tell that the journalist is friendly to one side and distrustful of the other, that's bias. There is some bias present, and it's all to the right. But there are also some folks who do a splendid job at objective reporting, and those are the real stars of the network. I respect them much more, in the same way that I respect a Brokaw or Russert much more than a Couric or Gregory.

Brit Hume's show is the one I cited in the study, and it was found to be better balanced than any of the network news shows in terms of even-handedness with the two presidential candidates.

Extrapolating from there to the whole network, as I did, does not work out, but I did not mean it the way it sounded. FOX has bias at times. However, there are a lot of times when it is genuinely fair or balanced, and the network's critics don't seem to acknowledge this. They paint the whole network with one wide brush and dismiss everything reported there. THAT is a mistake that actually feeds into FOX's growing credibility, because it gives ammunition for those on the right who can then safely dismiss all charges of bias against FOX.

Most of those who accuse FOX of bias deny the bias of the rest of the media. Why else bring it up? If it is bad for FOX, then it is bad for everybody else, too. To single out FOX for criticism reads as hypocrisy. If eliminating bias is your goal, you'd criticize the media on the whole. Thus there is a presumption of bad faith built in to attacking only FOX.

- Sirian

Gooberman · Post by **Gooberman** » Sat Dec 11, 2004 10:58 pm

If eliminating bias is your goal, you'd criticize the media on the whole. Thus there is a presumption of bad faith built in to attacking only FOX.

Yes, but, remember when I also criticized CNN though? If you don't feel free to read the thread again.

You only chose to get after me for criticizing fox. pot/kettle.

Sirian · Post by **Sirian** » Sat Dec 11, 2004 11:01 pm

Jerry Springer is worse than Jenny Jones, by an order of magnitude. You can pretend that you criticized both even handedly, but you didn't.

- Sirian

Gooberman · Post by **Gooberman** » Sun Dec 12, 2004 9:01 am

That's fair. I would say I do believe fox news is an order of magnitude worse then CNN. Reasons above, I don't care to retype them all.

But that is not what you have been saying. You have said implying I "only" criticized fox. That is wrong.

Ford Prefect · Post by **Ford Prefect** » Sun Dec 12, 2004 12:41 pm

I got an error after a few minutes of that clip so missed a lot of dissing of Canadians I guess.
Gee I'm so grateful that the U.S. allows Canada to exist as a seperate country. Umm correct me if I am wrong didn't we settle all that around 1812? When the attempt to invade and conquor failed it was pretty much decided that Canada was here to stay. Then there is that whole negotiated border thing. Whatever happend to "54:40 or Fight"? I guess we just have to be "grateful" that the U.S. lives up to it's negotiated treaty obligations and obeys international law. Not that that is a given with the U.S. these days.

This is all to pay us back for those Rick Mercer "Talking to Americans" segments of This Hour has 22 Minutes isn't it? I knew word would leak out about that stuff.

BTW if the United Empire Loyalists (as they are known in Canada) are an example of what she calls the worst Americans that come to Canada, crank up the exodus, we will take all you can give us.

Flabby Chick · Post by **Flabby Chick** » Sun Dec 12, 2004 12:59 pm

pssst ford!! when i was a tadpole, me and my girlfriend from winnipeg used to sell Canadian paraphernalia to all the yanks, whilst backpacking round the world. Easy money. They're just all wannabees.

...but dont tell anyone ok.