Guns make life hell

Tricord · Post by **Tricord** » Sun Jan 16, 2005 4:37 pm

My brother went hunting with some of his friends and their fathers... You know, they form a line and chase whatever animal..

One of the hunters (all hunters were "responsible" adults) misstepped, fell down and turned his double-barrel sideways in the process.. The gun went off, and my brother took the full blow in the knee, from about 5m distance.

Needless to say, there isn't much left of the knee. He went into emergency surgery where they took care of the highest priority: repairing the vascular aspect as well as possible. Both the veins and main artery were pulp for over 5cm, so they had to do a transplant. We're told the operation was a success (my father is a surgeon and assisted in carrying out the operation), so his leg doesn't have to be amputated. However, second on the list of priorities is the neurologic aspect. There are two nerves running at the height of the knee. About the diameter of a thick pencil, each. Neither my father or the other surgeon saw a trace of those nerves. Not only are they sectioned, but they are too far apart to easily reconnect. My brother has no feeling in his foot, and can't move. He says it feels like someone else's leg. They're operating again tomorrow to inspect the nerves and further evaluate the situation. Third priority is the articulation. The bones are fractured, the kneecap is gone, the muscle is pulp, and there's about 80 lead balls in there they'll never get out. There's no skin to close the wound or stitch, so it's left open bleeding continuously with risk of infections. The hole in his leg and knee is about the surface of a CD.

It is not certain if he'll ever walk again. He's 17. I'm so ★■◆●ing upset with this! A hunting accident? How unnecessary can it get? How much will he pay for the slopiness of that hunter? You ought to carry your gun opened at all times, only when you're about to fire you snap it shut. You don't carry it armed when you risk to fall over in the bushes, damnit!

To the trigger-happy and firepower-savvy lot of you: Let this be a reminder of how atrocious a situation these things can lead to, even without bad intentions. Let this be a reminder of all the pain, suffering and life-long damage they can cause to innocent people. Let this be a reminder that there can NEVER be a useful purpose for guns in todays socity.

I'm going to stand by my brother now, and hope for the best. How the HELL is this possible?

AceCombat · Post by **AceCombat** » Sun Jan 16, 2005 4:52 pm

OOOOOOOOH!! OUCH!!!

GAWD DAYUM!!

Tricord, i give your brother the best of luck from me.

Life threw him a very nasty curve ball and my sympathy is with you and your brother.

QUICK RECOVERY!!!

bash · Post by **bash** » Sun Jan 16, 2005 4:59 pm

Here's hoping your brother achieves a speedy and full recovery.

Avder · Post by **Avder** » Sun Jan 16, 2005 5:20 pm

Oh....best of luck to your brother.

Robo · Post by **Robo** » Sun Jan 16, 2005 5:24 pm

God bless and good luck to him. Your a true brother for standing by him...

ccb056 · Post by **ccb056** » Sun Jan 16, 2005 5:28 pm

I hope the best for your brother and your family.

Let this be a reminder that there can NEVER be a useful purpose for guns in todays socity.

I disagree with that statement

Robo · Post by **Robo** » Sun Jan 16, 2005 5:36 pm

ccb056 wrote:
Let this be a reminder that there can NEVER be a useful purpose for guns in todays socity.
I disagree with that statement

In another topic, maybe?

DCrazy · Post by **DCrazy** » Sun Jan 16, 2005 5:39 pm

Tricord wrote:Let this be a reminder that there can NEVER be a useful purpose for guns in todays socity.

This is horrible... my first reflex was to post "Nothing like a knee-jerk reaction.

".

Tricord · Post by **Tricord** » Sun Jan 16, 2005 5:43 pm

Thought I shouldn't have posted this in a redneck american forum such as this one, but did it anyway.

Anyway, I couldn't care less about your stupid comments right now. So go right ahead. To those who are supportive: thanks.

Never thought that DCrazy and Ace would swap in my esteem ranking on this board, though.

CDN_Merlin · Post by **CDN_Merlin** » Sun Jan 16, 2005 5:46 pm

Sorry to hear about your bro. I hope he recovers well.

Let this be a reminder that there can NEVER be a useful purpose for guns in todays socity.

I agree 100%. Hunting should just be banned unless you do it to provide 100% food for your family and you don't have a grocery store within 1000KM.

Robo · Post by **Robo** » Sun Jan 16, 2005 5:47 pm

Guys, that was a bit uncalled for... come on.

woodchip · Post by **woodchip** » Sun Jan 16, 2005 5:52 pm

As a licensed carrier of a concealed weapon, may I be the first to agree with Tricord...to a certain extent.
Firearm safety should always be paramount. Walking in a line suggest something about bird hunting. While bird hunting with a shotgun in the open position is not practical, having the safety on is.
I'm sorry to hear about the accident to your brother Tricord and wish him a speedy recovery.

Krom · Post by **Krom** » Sun Jan 16, 2005 6:11 pm

It doesn't sound good; I hope someday they will find a way to repair the damage that has been done.

Tricord wrote:To the trigger-happy and firepower-savvy lot of you: Let this be a reminder of how atrocious a situation these things can lead to, even without bad intentions. Let this be a reminder of all the pain, suffering and life-long damage they can cause to innocent people. Let this be a reminder that there can NEVER be a useful purpose for guns in todays socity.

My brother was almost killed by a trucker on the freeway driving home from work last year; the driver of the truck fell asleep at the wheel. My brother was driving 45 MPH with his flashers on because of transmission problems; the 80,000 pound semi rear ended him at 70 MPH. My brothers left arm was crushed and will never fully recover, actually, he has to go into surgery again next month because of problems with his shoulder. I do not use this as an excuse to say we should ban all trucks from the roads.

I am grateful for what I still have; my brother is alive, most people in accidents like that do not go to the ER, they go to the morgue.

I know some of what you are going through and I respect your position, but I disagree with your conclusion.

DCrazy · Post by **DCrazy** » Sun Jan 16, 2005 6:24 pm

Tricord wrote:Thought I shouldn't have posted this in a redneck american forum such as this one, but did it anyway.

Anyway, I couldn't care less about your stupid comments right now. So go right ahead. To those who are supportive: thanks.

Never thought that DCrazy and Ace would swap in my esteem ranking on this board, though.

If you re-read my post you will see that I thought it horrible that the reaction to that statement would have involved such a horrible choice of words. Nonetheless I stand by my position that using this event as a reason why guns should be banned is unwarranted, but that is a discussion for another forum.

This was a horrible accident that could leave your brother, who is my age, unable to walk for the rest of his life. I understand the severity of that situation, especially since that would leave me without the ability to play music or go bowling, two of the few things I truly enjoy doing. Nonetheless, it was an accident, and to put the blame for what happened on the gun rather than the person carrying it is not the proper response. I wish your brother a full recovery, but if you replaced the gun with a forklift I'm sure you wouldn't be blaming the forklift industry and every forklift operator out there. You chose to introduce your political viewpoint into this thread, and I'm merely expressing my response to it.

Phoenix Red · Post by **Phoenix Red** » Sun Jan 16, 2005 6:29 pm

First and foremost, I empathize and feel deeply sorry for your brother's loss.

However, as terrible as your brother's situation is, I get the distinct impression you're taking this opportunity/excuse to flame this "redneck american forum" on the gun issue. I hope this is not the case.

Nitrofox125 · Post by **Nitrofox125** » Sun Jan 16, 2005 6:35 pm

Tri... dude.... Damn. I'm so sorry. I really hope that he gets well, and soon. Though he is *still alive* and that is the truly important part. Be glad that shot wasn't three feet higher; that in itself is a miracle. Best of luck to your bro.

HaAGen DaZS · Post by **HaAGen DaZS** » Sun Jan 16, 2005 6:39 pm

tbh - ★■◆● the stance on guns - what need is there for hunting, really?

------------

really sorry to hear Tri. I hope he recovers and everything works out as best as possible... gluck.

Tricord · Post by **Tricord** » Sun Jan 16, 2005 6:39 pm

I feel sorry for your brother but truckers are out there doing their job. My brother is victim of a snobbish, high-socity high-bullsh!t, high-risk, amateur, unnecessary and overrated thing called hunting. You can't not use a car to go to work because of the risk of an accident, but you can not go hunting and walk! In the infinity of unfairness that comes with these accidents, I do feel less revolted with a road accident than this.. Somehow we know the potential risks of driving.. Driving is part of our lives.... whilst this hunting business.. a one-time opportunity, with the highest unnecessity possible. But I'm biased towards my brother, I know.

Tricord · Post by **Tricord** » Sun Jan 16, 2005 6:43 pm

Oh, and about the forklift analogy.. the primary function of a forklift is not to injure. With guns it is.

WarAdvocat · Post by **WarAdvocat** » Sun Jan 16, 2005 6:44 pm

My condolences to you and your brother. My jeers to you as well. One gram of common sense would have prevented that accident. Don't blame the tool. Blame the idiot who used it improperly.

Tricord · Post by **Tricord** » Sun Jan 16, 2005 6:44 pm

dbl-pst

Tricord · Post by **Tricord** » Sun Jan 16, 2005 6:45 pm

dbl-pst

Krom · Post by **Krom** » Sun Jan 16, 2005 7:00 pm

Here in Wisconsin, hunting is not optional, hunting season exists for a reason. The reason is: Wolves, they are not here in numbers, many other preditors were also hunted nearly to extinction because once people believed all preditors were evil. Now without hunting season the deer population would go out of control. Sport hunting for no other reason on the other hand is pointless and is the reason hunting season is needed now. I really feel for your situation, but I won't change my opinion because of it.

Mobius · Post by **Mobius** » Sun Jan 16, 2005 7:41 pm

That is a real shame Tricord. My best wishes are with your brother. Knees are nasty to have this happen to - with the bone at least you can have a prosthetic fitted, but the nerve damage sounds like it's the worst thing.

Personally, I have nothing against hunting, but I *do* have a lot against idiot hunters - and that's why I'll never again go hunting. The one and only time I went, I was amazed no one got shot - I spent the entire time scared out of my wits.

Hattrick · Post by **Hattrick** » Sun Jan 16, 2005 7:42 pm

Trichord,
I'm truly sorry about the accident involving your brother.I too had a brother get shot during hunting season. His left arm was detached and the bullet caused numerous injuries in his body cavity. The doctors were amazed that he was still alive upon arrival at the hospital.His arm was reattached and other injuries patched up.
Doctors gave him a 20% chance of living.If he did live we were told he would never regain use of his arm nor would he ever live a "normal" life again.

That was 18 years ago.

Today he not only lives a "normal" life, but enjoys Bow hunting as well as rifle hunting.Truly he was: A. watched over by someone greater than us. or B.One lucky S.O.B.
My point is. hope for a good recovery by your brother is there.It will take lots of time and painfull rehab, but it can happen.

That said, I feel the need to add this.

I understand your Ill feelings toward the hunter that accidently shot your brother. but remember it was an accident that happened while your brother was doing something he liked doing. No matter your feelings on gun ownership and hunting you must realize that accidents happen no matter what you are doing.
A few things could have kept this from happening(just my opinion based on the facts you have provided).
One is the hunter SHOULD have had his safety on.If he did you would not be here posting this horrible news.
Two is the driving line shoulda been much greater spaced.When we go out on a drive hunt our driving hunters are spaced far enough apart that the only really have line of site to each other a few times during the hunt. This too coulda kept the accident from happening.
I can go on listing ideas that pop into my head, but I feel that is not needed.

As I said earlier, I Know what your going through, and my deepest sympathies are with you and your family.
I would not wish this on anyone.but again I would not blame the countless other people involved in the activity that the accident happened in.Accidents happen and yes sometimes there are real horrible reprocussions that come from them. but they are still just that. accidents.

I'll keep your brother and family in my thoughts, and hope for a great recovery for him.

Genghis · Post by **Genghis** » Sun Jan 16, 2005 7:45 pm

I'm very sorry for your brother, that sounds like a horrific accident. Best wishes to him, and to you and your family who share his pain.

Hattrick · Post by **Hattrick** » Sun Jan 16, 2005 7:47 pm

HaAGen DaZS wrote:tbh - **** the stance on guns - what need is there for hunting, really?

It is a sport enjoyed by many people. Me one of them.
It is a sport that not only is enjoyable but serves a purpose,animal management, food etc.

Need wise. there are still many families out there that depend on hunting to feed their families through the year. I know quite a few peeps that wouldnt be able to keep food on the table without being able to hunt.

Lothar · Post by **Lothar** » Sun Jan 16, 2005 8:08 pm

Phoenix Red wrote:First and foremost, I empathize and feel deeply sorry for your brother's loss.

However, as terrible as your brother's situation is, I get the distinct impression you're taking this opportunity/excuse to flame this "redneck american forum" on the gun issue. I hope this is not the case.

I'm not normally one to x2 a post, but this one deserves it (with some highlighting).

Lobber · Post by **Lobber** » Sun Jan 16, 2005 8:27 pm

Ouch. I hope he recovers.

Ferno · Post by **Ferno** » Sun Jan 16, 2005 8:56 pm

I feel your pain Tricord, but your anger is misdirected. you should be pissed off at the irresponsibility of the hunter, not at guns.

Guns are tools. some use them to survive in remote areas. But with any other tool there is the very real possibility for abuse. Such as if you screw up with a table saw. you can slice off your hand if you're not smart about using it. Although when that happens, do you blame the table saw? or do you blame the operator?

CDN_Merlin · Post by **CDN_Merlin** » Sun Jan 16, 2005 9:08 pm

Thing is with a table saw, it's your own fault, with guns, most of the time it's not your own fault.

And that is the problem. Just like with driving, you can be the best driver but that makes no diff cause it's the idiot next to you that will cause the accident.

Stryker · Post by **Stryker** » Sun Jan 16, 2005 10:26 pm

That accident shouldn't have happened. Gun use course 101: never MOVE without the safety on, whether the gun's unloaded or not.

Your brother sounds like he's in pretty bad shape. However, even if the nerves are gone, hopefully they can find some way of putting it back together.

That said, and nothing personal about this, but I, and probably every other American on this board, take great offense to the "American redneck" reference. It's not like we all walk around, shooting each other all the time as if this was normal behavior. If I didn't know better, I'd think you were sneering down your nose at us because we don't have the government regulate every single firearm in the country. Certainly, that guy should not have been given a hunting license--but do you blame all Muslims because of 9/11, where more than 4,000 died? Then why do you blame all hunters for one accident?

Again, nothing personal. And I'm really sorry about your brother--I'll be including him in my prayers.

Will Robinson · Post by **Will Robinson** » Sun Jan 16, 2005 11:37 pm

Very sorry to hear about your brother. I hope he surprises you all and has a miraculous recovery.
And you're right, a gun like that should be carried broken open, no exceptions, no excuses, breaking that rule was the source of the tragedy.

MD-2389 · Post by **MD-2389** » Sun Jan 16, 2005 11:52 pm

Tricord, I'm sorry to hear about your brother, and I do understand what you're going through. However, you're on a crusade against the wrong thing. It wasn't the gun's fault that it fired at your brother's knee anymore than its the fault of a car being driven by a drunk driver that takes out someone's child in an accident. It's the fault of the idiot that was handling it.

Hell, about three years ago I was driving my mother home from my grandmother's house. It was around 8pm when we got to an intersection. It had been raining the entire trip home so the roads weren't in the best of conditions anyways. The light on our side had just turned green, and I pulled out to make a left turn onto HWY51 to head on home. Well, out of the corner of my eye I saw a gas hauler coming at us without even a hint of slowing down. I floored it and spun the back end of the truck around onto the other side of the highway JUST barely missing the truck that ran the redlight and just kept on going like nothing was ever there. Had I not seen that truck the both of us would have died that night. Should I go on a crusade against all gas hauler drivers just because of one wreckless driver? You're not thinking rationally right now. Quite frankly, your insulting us all by labeling anyone that disagrees with you a "redneck american" isn't helping matters at all. I found that very offensive, just like you'd find it offensive if I labeled your family a bunch of eurotrash just because you're hellbent on an anti-gun crusade. Right now I suggest you start spending some time with your brother and not even bother getting online, because right now he needs you the most.

Beowulf · Post by **Beowulf** » Mon Jan 17, 2005 12:06 am

I wish him a speedy recovery. Truly devastating.

DCrazy, I doubt "knee-jerk reaction" is the correct idiom for this situation.

Ferno · Post by **Ferno** » Mon Jan 17, 2005 12:31 am

CDN_Merlin wrote:Thing is with a table saw, it's your own fault, with guns, most of the time it's not your own fault.

Let me get this straight.. you have a gun, loaded, pointed in an unsafe direction, with safety off. it fires and it's not your fault?

Eagle132 · Post by **Eagle132** » Mon Jan 17, 2005 12:46 am

I'm sorry to hear about your brother, Tricord. I guess I can say I know how you feel. My Mom had cancer for about 5-6 years, and it was hard knowing that I could loose her any day. Unfortunately, she died in May, she lost the battle of cancer. Just be thankful that your brother is still alive.

Gammaray · Post by **Gammaray** » Mon Jan 17, 2005 3:38 am

Although It really sucks what happened to him, your brother went on this trip of his own free will. Not a damn thing in this world is accident free. Go live in a bubble if you don't like it.

[edited for knee jerk reply]

Flabby Chick · Post by **Flabby Chick** » Mon Jan 17, 2005 4:18 am

Sh1tty news Tri. All the best to you and your family.

JMEaT · Post by **JMEaT** » Mon Jan 17, 2005 4:40 am

How sad that this happened at such a young age. I hope things work out OK for your brother.

Guns make life hell

Guns make life hell

Re: Guns make life hell