The Scorpion's Lair

[Sirius]

Earlier this week I finished my first Descent 2 level in quite some time, and just got somewhere to upload it...



That single screenshot alone doesn't say much about it though. The level is actually fairly large and should be fine with 8 players... I tested it with four, which wasn't too bad but a little slow.

It's mostly fairly easy to learn considering there basically isn't very much to it. But it has enough complexity for a wide range of combat styles...

You can download it here.

[Diedel]

sluuuuuuuuurp ... multiplayer then, I reckon?

Nice architecture, nice texturing.

A few things though:

1) For internet multiplayer cube count should not exceed 250, 200 or less is better, as esp. for small bandwidth users a larger level becomes unplayable. But as you have created a lot of D2 levels already, maybe you built this level with today's broadband connections in mind more than modem users?

2) The flag goals are too close to each other and can be reached by simply flying through a straight tunnel. That means that in flag/hoard games a big part of the level may be left out. Maybe you want to move the flag goals to the short sides of the level and put one in the upper and one in the lower story there (like in cubes #228 and #454).

3) Some areas are tad too far on the large side, making the level too slow (like the big tunnel in the levels underbellies, or the halls).

Edit:

I just tried your SP level set The Apocalyptic Factor. The architecture is great, but the game balance simply sucks. I usually don't have any problems playing a D2 SP level on Hotshot, but not here. Too little space to dodge shots, too hard enemies (or too weak armament), most bots spawn too many or too strong other bots. I wonder whether some bots have even been made more aggressive (à la Ace difficulty or so). It's simply too much if a Spider bot spawns 6 Clones whos shots are almost impossible to dodge because you are stuck in a small hallway. It's also way too much to have several bots from weak to strong in a hall you can only reach from a small hallway, so no room do dodge all their shots as well; and when you finally make it through the door two overpowered Lou Gards are awaiting you - and all you have are some measly Lasers lvl 2, a few concs and homers, and an almost empty Vulcan gun. On the other side, Seekers do not drop a single Mercury missile.

To bad. It's such a nice level design.

[MD-2389]

Wow, that looks pretty nice man. I'll have to check this one out for damn sure. Maybe I'll hop on kali this weekend (if I'm not too bogged down) and play someone on it.

[Sirius]

Ah, that one. In retrospect I might agree with the flag goals - I just put them in what seemed like the most sensible place at the time, which took all of two seconds to think about.

However, I'm hesitant to change them because
1) Releasing too many versions of the same level can be a bad idea, especially when it's already made as public as it is
2) Descent 2's CTF mode means that the only time it's going to matter is the first round; after that the flags spawn all over the level.

I had the same concerns about size, but it -seemed- to work out in the end. Does mean I should be more careful in future, though...

I do have to ask though, what difference does cube count make for bandwidth? I know it affects framerate, which almost all users these days won't have trouble with anyway since their systems are far more powerful than mine - but cubes don't move, and thus no extra information should be sent for them...?

And AF. Would you believe that I've had a complaint from someone (and she knows who she is ) that it's actually too easy?

The problem there is that you -can- play it in single, and the briefings were thrown in to suit that - but it was originally intended for co-op mode. (Which is probably where said complaint comes from.)

Even then some of it is quite tough. You can survive the standard levels well enough if you're careful and can quickly lay the smackdown on the tougher enemies; however, uh... there are bits I've noticed like the level 5 boss that made me pause and wonder "what were we thinking?". In single-player I'm not sure I've ever actually beaten it, at least on a reasonable skill level... the room is just too large and it can pummel you into dust in a split second...

[DarkHorse]

D2 CTF is kind of not very good anyway, so I wouldn't worry too much about how the bases are positioned. If they're close together it doesn't matter in Hoard, and for CTF... play D3. Really.

The level 5 boss just needs to be pinned by Gauss, then it shouldn't fire back. If I remember correctly.

[Diedel]

Maybe I should fix flag spawning in my D2X version and have them always spawn in the segments they were placed in when loading the levels ...

I don't like D3. It ... doesn't ... feel right.

[DarkHorse]

I'm not fond of D3 either, except for CTF and the single-player.

[Edit:] I'm not sure how easy it is to modify D2's code like this, or whether it would still be compatible with other versions if you did, but compatibility doesn't matter, this would just plain own.

What I'd like to see in D2 CTF is player starts being fixed for one team or the other, so enemy pyros don't spawn near one team's base. Also, that the flag will always spawn in the originally defined place. And finally, that a team's flag must be at base for them to score the opposing flag. Those are the only problems with D2 CTF; without them, it would be the best game ever.

[Sirius]

Returning flags to base also, recall...

If D2x ever gets back on the road again I wouldn't be too surprised if that would come up eventually though.

[Diedel]

That's all things that could be done and would not affect compatibility with other D2 versions at all, since it wouldn't require any changes in the level data structures, but simply some extra internal references in the D2X software. I will definitely try to implement that, and I will see to offer options to enable "fixed spawn" points for flags, players and powerups somewhere in the menu (check boxes). I will also try to implement full proper flag handling.

[Sirius]

Neat. (I sense that this thread should probably be split now...)

So I don't suppose it'll be an actual separate game mode then. Would it still be compatible with standard D2? I'd imagine there might be hitches if a machine running standard D2 decides where the flag would be...

[Diedel]

I'm working on it right now ... flags and powerups will respawn at their initial locations now.

How does D3 handle a stolen flag being dropped and picked up by the own team? Will the flag immediately respawn at that team's flag goal, or will the team have to bring it back there?

There should be no problems when mixing D2X with fixed respawn positions with a D2 version not doing so. Fixed respawns simply wouldn't work if a version not supporting them handles dropped powerups. I don't really know whether D2 has kind of a server model where all such operations are handled on the server machine or not; in the further case all you'd need to do was to have the server run my D2X version, while in the latter case having a player with another D2 version dropping a powerup would cause that powerup to reappear at some random location in the level.

[Sirius]

Good point... the 'game master' might control the majority of the events in the level...

In Descent 3, if a stolen flag is recovered, it is immediately returned to base.

[Diedel]

I'm almost there. Having a pilot respawn only at "his team's" spawn points will however not be trivial, I've just found out, as the spawn points have no team tags ... d'oh.

Gotta think of something here ...

(Edit) ... well, the only solution I can think of is to either introduce new segment types (which will make other D2 versions crash if used in a level), or mark each teams spawn points as that team's flag goals. That however has the backdraw that you will have additional flag goals.

I have allowed both ways and will change DLE-XP appropriately. Additionally, if my D2X-W32 finds a flag goal to contain a player spawn point, it will mark that spawn point as team-specific and remove the flag goal tag from that segment. This however means that spawn points should not be placed in "real" flag goals.

[DarkHorse]

The player starts are numbered, so you could perhaps have 0-3 being blue and 4-7 red. That likely wouldn't work with all existing levels, but there aren't really any designed for CTF, because the game mode doesn't really make sense at the moment. With those changes in place there would be a good reason to design D2 CTF levels.