Re: Descent 1 1/2
Posted: Thu May 18, 2017 2:47 am
It's queued up behind another level I'm working on. Thankfully that one is nearing completion though (it'll have to be, I only have about 190 cubes of space left...).
SweetSirius wrote:It's queued up behind another level I'm working on. Thankfully that one is nearing completion though (it'll have to be, I only have about 190 cubes of space left...).
From playing through D1 and 2 on a livestream, I learned that a full rescue bonus occurs only if you have all hostages on board when the level ends. If you die at all before that, the hostages are lost, and so is your bonus!Sirius wrote:My guess is that the hostage rescue count increments until you reach an end-level score screen, whichever that happens to be. How full rescue is determined is another interesting question - it might just trigger if you have hostages on board and there are none left in the level, but I couldn't be sure it doesn't count how many you have versus either the base or current level.
I know that, I was wondering how secret levels factor into this, if at all. Counterstrike does have some hostages in the secret level in Limefrost.Kaizerwolf wrote:From playing through D1 and 2 on a livestream, I learned that a full rescue bonus occurs only if you have all hostages on board when the level ends. If you die at all before that, the hostages are lost, and so is your bonus!Sirius wrote:My guess is that the hostage rescue count increments until you reach an end-level score screen, whichever that happens to be. How full rescue is determined is another interesting question - it might just trigger if you have hostages on board and there are none left in the level, but I couldn't be sure it doesn't count how many you have versus either the base or current level.
For some reason I totally can't be arsed to do itAlter-Fox wrote:Well I know if you go through the level "normally" (so that it's always on countdown) you get the rescue bonus after you leave the secret level. Which is probably all Parallax had in mind since IIRC that was the only secret with hostages.
If you do the guided missile trick then I'm not sure. Relatively easy for someone of your caliber to test I imagine.
I wouldn't worry about that too much. There are so many midis to choose from that every level should have something that fits. Using the assets from the original two games is a big part of the nostalgia factor this mission needs to have.Alter-Fox wrote:Well, difficulty wise there's definitely at least one thing using omega on you in that map anyway, and spike doesn't have homing flash missiles.
BTW, I realized today that I've been sitting on a pretty big collection of midi versions of the same NIN songs that were used as inspiration by many of the guys who wrote D1's and D2's midis. If we do end up with a level where none of the Descent midis seem to fit well enough I could try and find one in there. Some of them might need some adjustments but those shouldn't be difficult.
Yeah, let's see:I tried to draw inspiration from what made D1 level 27 Charon Volatile Mine, while adding some original twists and turns to every aspect. There's even a couple cave-y segments.
I've humored your shenanigans for long, but right now I'm 100% convinced you're a troll. This project has been going on for so long there's no way you shouldn't be familiar with the ins and outs of the design policy. It's weird that getting a rise out of me and the others is so much fun for you, taking into account the not inconsiderable amount of work you had to put into making this level. But after some levels you made that were passable in both design and gameplay it's hard for me to accept such creative regression as inadvertent, so I can only think you're doing this on purpose.LightWolf wrote:I can't help it. You can't keep me away forever
Whatever level you had asked me to look at of his way back, I can't do it. I tried to make do with it, tried to change things up, but fundamentally, the level is awful. Without scrapping everything and starting again, I can't fix it.Xfing wrote:
I've humored your shenanigans for long, but right now I'm 100% convinced you're a troll. This project has been going on for so long there's no way you shouldn't be familiar with the ins and outs of the design policy. It's weird that getting a rise out of me and the others is so much fun for you, taking into account the not inconsiderable amount of work you had to put into making this level. But after some levels you made that were passable in both design and gameplay it's hard for me to accept such creative regression as inadvertent, so I can only think you're doing this on purpose.
Please focus on your own projects from now on, seriously man.
No harm done, we'll just retire the level and free up the spot. Thanks for trying anywayKaizerwolf wrote:Whatever level you had asked me to look at of his way back, I can't do it. I tried to make do with it, tried to change things up, but fundamentally, the level is awful. Without scrapping everything and starting again, I can't fix it.Xfing wrote:
I've humored your shenanigans for long, but right now I'm 100% convinced you're a troll. This project has been going on for so long there's no way you shouldn't be familiar with the ins and outs of the design policy. It's weird that getting a rise out of me and the others is so much fun for you, taking into account the not inconsiderable amount of work you had to put into making this level. But after some levels you made that were passable in both design and gameplay it's hard for me to accept such creative regression as inadvertent, so I can only think you're doing this on purpose.
Please focus on your own projects from now on, seriously man.
Not that my standards are particularly high or very creatively constraining, we've already got tons of very different maps ready to go, three of which are his. And I always ask the best mappers for their opinions anyway, so it's not like I make the decisions entirely on my own. But yeah, there is a certain level of effort I require, no shortcuts.Naphtha wrote: If you really want your stuff accepted, you have to rise to meet Xfing's standards, not halfass it and hope that he lowers his standards.
A lot of things. Boring texture work (that one section that was all dark green walls, floors and ceilings), long hallways to deadends, overall a very tight level, weird lighting work. Stuff just didn't fit. I was asked to look at it and see if I could make it better, and to be honest, I can't. Without scrapping a ton of the level and redoing it, I can't fix things, and at that point I might as well just build a Beta Ceti Weapons Research myself.LightWolf wrote:Hold on, what was wrong with Beta Ceti Weapons Research?
We'd be better served, honestly. Every level of yours more that we have is a boonKaizerwolf wrote:[I can't fix things, and at that point I might as well just build a Beta Ceti Weapons Research myself.
The level isn't up to par. I was being a bit lenient when I accepted it in the first place, but it really doesn't have enough to offer for the Vertigo portion. Not your best one either (that would be Coolyard Station I think). I honestly don't think Naphtha or AlterFox would disagree either.LightWolf wrote:You mentioned that all-grass thing - that was changed in the update
I also don't see how texturing is so hard to fix
Where are the long dead end tunnels? (I guess we may have to define dead end here - if there is a required purpose to an area, in my book it's not a dead end)
Either way, if one single person continues the trend of being unable to fix anything, give someone else a shot. Don't just scrap an entire level off of one person's opinion.
I gotta finish my current Reactor Ohm level first before I can move on to something new! I'm also a bit creatively stuck on the level, so it may take me some time. I feel like some of the parts I have are not my best work, so it might take me a bit longer. I can post the WIP level at some point and see what people think.Xfing wrote:
We'd be better served, honestly. Every level of yours more that we have is a boon
But you've continued making these half-hearted maps that are then left for someone else to fix. If the project leader tells you it's not good enough, shouldn't it fall to you to fix what he feels is wrong with your own work? That's how things are expected to work in a creative environment.LightWolf wrote:Either way, if one single person continues the trend of being unable to fix anything, give someone else a shot. Don't just scrap an entire level off of one person's opinion.
Honestly, even the ones that got accepted feel like a very noticeable dip in quality. I agree that Coolyard Station turned out a bit better, but that really isn't saying much and to me, it only feels like it fits into the D2 section because of the Zeta Aquilae textures. You're not putting in enough effort to improve your work and it's shown.Xfing wrote:The level isn't up to par. I was being a bit lenient when I accepted it in the first place, but it really doesn't have enough to offer for the Vertigo portion. Not your best one either (that would be Coolyard Station I think). I honestly don't think Naphtha or AlterFox would disagree either.
Yeah, but these levels at least do give us something to work with. There will obviously be improvements and changes made when the time comes. I've already slightly reworked "Dacol Futyl Caverns" (a really passable level), and more are to follow, I just can't get around to it.Naphtha wrote:
Honestly, even the ones that got accepted feel like a very noticeable dip in quality.
In that level I'll be mixing up the textures a bit still (because the red is a bit overwhelming) and removing part of both the zigzag sections, as those are lazy cube copypasta and lengthen the journey needlessly. I might even add some secondary mapping, but I'd need a stroke of inspiration to do thatI agree that Coolyard Station turned out a bit better, but that really isn't saying much and to me, it only feels like it fits into the D2 section because of the Zeta Aquilae textures. You're not putting in enough effort to improve your work and it's shown.
You mean expansion in all directions? Sure, noted. Still, I'd be taking out some portions of the zigzags, I feel they're needlessly long.Naphtha wrote:I feel like the zigzaggy sections can be replaced with larger cubes of similar dimensions. The level's kind of missing those open spaces I associate with D2, so that's just my suggestion for Coolyard.
Oh no, I didn't just mean stretching the tunnels or anything. I definitely support taking the sections out, and it shouldn't be too hard to put in a more spacious area to replace the zigzags in each part of the level. I'm thinking areas that feel more like the yellow key room in Level 3 of Counterstrike, just to give an example.Xfing wrote:You mean expansion in all directions? Sure, noted. Still, I'd be taking out some portions of the zigzags, I feel they're needlessly long.Naphtha wrote:I feel like the zigzaggy sections can be replaced with larger cubes of similar dimensions. The level's kind of missing those open spaces I associate with D2, so that's just my suggestion for Coolyard.
If it's not so hard, why didn't you address it in any of your levels? Your arguments don't make any sense.LightWolf wrote: I also don't see how texturing is so hard to fix
LOL... that sounds exactly like me in 2008. I think I was working on Anthology on the side, and... you know...Xfing wrote:especially since I should be writing my master's thesis (and I've been procrastinating horribly)
Yeah, my promoter has a very hands-off approach in regards to controlling my progress, which is pretty much the worst thing ever if you want results from meSirius wrote:LOL... that sounds exactly like me in 2008. I think I was working on Anthology on the side, and... you know...Xfing wrote:especially since I should be writing my master's thesis (and I've been procrastinating horribly)
While I did finish said thesis (barely), I don't really recommend the approach I took to anyone. I was still figuring out the way I work best, and it turns out that's in an office away from distractions (like level editors). Also helped to have someone to report to regularly for accountability etc. For other people it may be different... not everyone is me
Just write 5 letters to ex-lovers, give them to a friend, and tell them to mail one for every deadline you missSirius wrote:LOL... that sounds exactly like me in 2008. I think I was working on Anthology on the side, and... you know...Xfing wrote:especially since I should be writing my master's thesis (and I've been procrastinating horribly)
While I did finish said thesis (barely), I don't really recommend the approach I took to anyone. I was still figuring out the way I work best, and it turns out that's in an office away from distractions (like level editors). Also helped to have someone to report to regularly for accountability etc. For other people it may be different... not everyone is me
Don't worry too much about "standards", your only constraint is 900 cubes. No such thing as "too large for D2" otherwise. I think that generally texture schemes are more important than geometry in determining whether a level fits D1, D2 or Vertigo, though obviously some extreme exaggerations such as Limefrost Spiral geometry for a Solar System level could push the authenticity parameter a bit beyond the acceptable rangeAlter-Fox wrote:Careful application of metaphoric self-flagellation gets everything done.
I have a couple rooms in the works but I don't know if the final map is going to end up too big for Descent 2 standard. I'd like to have space for some decent-sized secrets this time.