DescentBB

Coolyard Station will be up next time I get a chance. One final thing: I like to "recycle" parts of my levels throughout my missions, so it is okay to use pieces of my levels for Descent 1 1\2.

LightWolf wrote:Coolyard Station will be up next time I get a chance. One final thing: I like to "recycle" parts of my levels throughout my missions, so it is okay to use pieces of my levels for Descent 1 1\2.

No. Copypasta promotes lazy design.

Now see, LightWolf. it's nice that you're giving permission for us to use whatever it is you come up with. But with the ones I pointed out, you directly copied from other levels and did nothing to indicate that it wasn't an original creation (unless you count changing the textures, but that's more like a cheap way to cover your butt and hope no one notices). If you had contacted the level designers and asked for permission to use certain elements, they might have allowed it as long as you provided credit to them for having made those parts. Not saying tracking down those level builders is always simple, but thinking of doing so should be.

(And besides, if you want people to look up to your work like that designer you idolize so much, put more effort into it. )

Anywho, I did take a bit more of a look at the Brimspark level I had going and finally got around to synching the Dropbox folder, so it's now up there as Level 21 for you to take a look at, Xfing. I'll also send you a PM to give you more of an idea of where I was going with the level if it helps, and in the meantime, maybe I can see about doing something to test out those mod files.

I will consider changing those parts into a more original structure. I still am going to build my own pipe, though...

NaphthaTurisas wrote: Anywho, I did take a bit more of a look at the Brimspark level I had going and finally got around to synching the Dropbox folder, so it's now up there as Level 21 for you to take a look at, Xfing. I'll also send you a PM to give you more of an idea of where I was going with the level if it helps, and in the meantime, maybe I can see about doing something to test out those mod files.

Sorry, I can't see the folder for level 21...

Huh, maybe I did something wrong with trying to sync the folders then. If this link doesn't work for you, maybe you could walk me through what I should've done?

NaphthaTurisas wrote:Huh, maybe I did something wrong with trying to sync the folders then. If this link doesn't work for you, maybe you could walk me through what I should've done?

This link does indeed work, thanks! But I get only the folder, pretty much suspended in nothingness, can't navigate from it anywhere and can't see this folder in the D1,5 Levels folder that I prepared. I'm not sure what needs to be done, actually Can you see the folders I made available?

That's very odd... Well, if this direct link to the RL2 doesn't let you download it, I did mirror the upload on my own personal Dropbox just now so maybe that second link would work. It hasn't failed me before, at any rate.

Ok, so here's the updated level listing. We end up with only several more levels to make, but we gain balance - each game gets 18 levels and 2 secret levels, so the player will get to explore a huge chunk of D1, D2 and Vertigo in a single mission. The bosses are placed in levels not separated evenly, to make it all feel more naturally flowing and to promote suspense. I have removed the 4th-in-the-system Counterstrike levels from the listing, as they don't really fit the concept and took unnecessary space. I'll move the listing to the OP too.

Chapter I: The Solar System

01: Solar System 1: Lunar Titanium Mine Xfing: Layout Completed
02: Solar System 2: Venus SO2 Mine Xfing: Layout Completed
03: Solar System 3: Mercury Construction Hub
04: Solar System 4: Mars Covert Operations
05: Solar System 5: Ceres Military Perimeter (Boss: Red Fatty)
06: Solar System 6: Ganymede Outpost
07: Solar System 7: Rhea Mine
08: Solar System 8: Umbriel Tholin Research
09: Solar System 9: Proteus Cyanide Mine
10: Solar System 10: Charon Orbital Research
11: Solar System 11: Orcus Ammonia Mine
12: Solar System 12: Quaoar Alcane Mine
13: Solar System 13: Varuna Military Base (Boss: Quartzon)
14: Solar System 14: Ixion Outpost
15: Solar System 15: Haumea Collisional Research Lab
16: Solar System 16: Makemake Mining Shaft
17: Solar System 17: Eris Military Base Taken by Xfing
18: Solar System 18: Sedna Lost Station (Boss: Baloris Prime) Xfing: Layout Completed

Secret Level 1: Asteroid Weapons Research
Secret Level 2: Kuiper Belt Espionage Facility

Chapter 2: The Six Extrasolar Systems

19: Zeta Aquilae 1: Circularis NaphthaTurisas: Layout Completed
20: Zeta Aquilae 2: Coolyard Station
21: Quartzon 1: Quartzon Aqua Distillata Factory
22: Zeta Aquilae 3: Military Hub
23: Quartzon 2: Falls Of Truth (Boss: Vertigo 1)
24: Brimspark 1: The Grandcrisp Oven
25: Quartzon 3: Planetary Life Research
26: Brimspark 2: The Cauldron
27: Limefrost Spiral 1: Glacierspire Taken by Sirius
28: Brimspark 3: Metamorphic Rock Excavation (Boss: Brimspark)
29: Limefrost Spiral 2: Salt Distillation Facility
30: Baloris Prime 1: Ktsch'k W'eng II
31: Puuma Sphere 1: Wing N'drsaedt
32: Puuma Sphere 2: S'tlo Sigma (Boss: D1 Boss 1)
33: Baloris Prime 2: Ku'thaaz G'herb-ilk Station Xfing: Completed
34: Baloris Prime 3: L'aeev Installation
35: Puuma Sphere 3: R'eeie
36: Limefrost Spiral 3: Frosted Minerals Abyss (Boss: Limefrost)

Secret Level 3: Quartzon Planetary Vault
Secret Level 4: Fata Morgana Tunnels

Chapter 3: Beta Ceti

37: Beta Ceti 1: Zandura II
38: Beta Ceti 2: Virus Research Lab 665
39: Beta Ceti 3: N'tala Shadowy Corridors (Boss: Tycho Brahe) Taken by Xfing
40: Beta Ceti 4: PTMC Remote Tracking Station
41: Beta Ceti 5: Sheltem Mech Factory
42: ???
43: ???
44: ???
45: ???
46: ???
47: ???(Boss: D1 Boss 2)
48: ???
49: ???
50: ???
51: ???
52: ???
53: Beta Ceti : Beta Ceti Military Base Taken by Xfing
54: Beta Ceti 7: Doomsday Warstation (Boss: Vertigo 2)

Secret Level 5: Katatonia
Secret Level 6: Dementia

The Beta Ceti levels have their names intentionally left blank. As the most adventurous levels and being "everything goes" in terms of theme and design, I feel that maybe in these cases it would be best to allow the designer to come up with their own name for the level. Unorthodox names and ones containing references to pop culture will be appreciated.

Xfing wrote:

NaphthaTurisas wrote:Huh, maybe I did something wrong with trying to sync the folders then. If this link doesn't work for you, maybe you could walk me through what I should've done?

This link does indeed work, thanks! But I get only the folder, pretty much suspended in nothingness, can't navigate from it anywhere and can't see this folder in the D1,5 Levels folder that I prepared. I'm not sure what needs to be done, actually Can you see the folders I made available?

No, no. I can download the file from your direct link. I just can't get to that folder from my initial directory. Probably a syncing error as you said. Ok, lemme enjoy your creation for a while now ^^

Just looking over the sound file replacements using RBotEdit to analyze the updated HAM at the moment. Looks pretty good for the most part, but if we're going to include Vertigo robots, you might need to find a different sound to replace with the Fusion Hulk's sound. The "evil twin" sound effects aren't used by any D2 robots, but the Fiddler in Vertigo does use them so that could be a little off-putting.

If I'm right that there shouldn't be any Guide-Bots in the entire set, though, maybe one of its sound effects could be switched out to bring the Fusion Hulk's original cry back?

NaphthaTurisas wrote:Just looking over the sound file replacements using RBotEdit to analyze the updated HAM at the moment. Looks pretty good for the most part, but if we're going to include Vertigo robots, you might need to find a different sound to replace with the Fusion Hulk's sound. The "evil twin" sound effects aren't used by any D2 robots, but the Fiddler in Vertigo does use them so that could be a little off-putting.

If I'm right that there shouldn't be any Guide-Bots in the entire set, though, maybe one of its sound effects could be switched out to bring the Fusion Hulk's original cry back?

I thought I had the Fusion Hulk's cry set to his original one from D1. Did I understand you right - it uses the evil twin's sound now? If so, that was certainly unintentional. I swapped out multiplayer sounds for the D1 robot sounds and from what I remember, I got every single cry. I also worked a bit with the Class 1 Driller's cry so that it doesn't speed up twice at 44kHz.

And as for Guide Bots, we will be including them, starting from Zeta Aquilae.

EDIT: Oh, only now I got what you meant. The sound swapped out for the Fusion Hulk's cry conflicts with the Fiddler. Ok. Feel free to switch out another file so that there is no conflict. And please try to keep the Guide-Bot's sounds intact too, if that's possible!

Xfing wrote:EDIT: Oh, only now I got what you meant. The sound swapped out for the Fusion Hulk's cry conflicts with the Fiddler. Ok. Feel free to switch out another file so that there is no conflict. And please try to keep the Guide-Bot's sounds intact too, if that's possible!

Well, looking at it in DTX2, I think I have a possibility for you. There's a sound file in the Effects category called "fade" which is extremely rare in a D2 level (D3 players would recognize it as the "weapon respawn" sound in multiplayer, however). You'd only get to hear the sound in D2 if you set trigger an illusion to appear or disappear, and since that's probably too advanced or unusual for the kinds of levels you're looking for, substituting the Fusion Hulk's cry for the "fade" sound and leaving the Fiddler's sounds as defaults would probably create the fewest conflicts.

EDIT: Wait a second, it looks like you already did that. Kind of weird that the same sound file replaces two different things, but then all that needs to be done is setting the Fiddler's sound back to normal and making sure the Fusion Hulk's "see" and "attack" sounds are set to the replaced "fade" sound effect in the updated HAM.

Actually I think the fade sound plays in D2 when you're hit with a flash missile. Definitely in D2X-XL and I remember it doing the same in either Rebirth or vanilla D2...
I can check when I get home but I'm pretty sure.

NaphthaTurisas wrote:

Xfing wrote:EDIT: Oh, only now I got what you meant. The sound swapped out for the Fusion Hulk's cry conflicts with the Fiddler. Ok. Feel free to switch out another file so that there is no conflict. And please try to keep the Guide-Bot's sounds intact too, if that's possible!

Well, looking at it in DTX2, I think I have a possibility for you. There's a sound file in the Effects category called "fade" which is extremely rare in a D2 level (D3 players would recognize it as the "weapon respawn" sound in multiplayer, however). You'd only get to hear the sound in D2 if you set trigger an illusion to appear or disappear, and since that's probably too advanced or unusual for the kinds of levels you're looking for, substituting the Fusion Hulk's cry for the "fade" sound and leaving the Fiddler's sounds as defaults would probably create the fewest conflicts.

EDIT: Wait a second, it looks like you already did that. Kind of weird that the same sound file replaces two different things, but then all that needs to be done is setting the Fiddler's sound back to normal and making sure the Fusion Hulk's "see" and "attack" sounds are set to the replaced "fade" sound effect in the updated HAM.

Do that if you have the means to, ok? If you don't, I'll make the HAM update, but right now I'm preparing a crude test level where I'll put all the robots, minus the bosses (I'll have separate files made for those) so we can test if all their sounds look good. That may have been an oversight on my part, I have no idea why I redundantly replaced the fiddler's sound with something else. I'll make the level and upload it in a few minutes, I'll let you know immediately when it's done.

EDIT: Ok, look for the map soundtest.hog and its associated files in a new folder in the "other files" dir. I think I didn't leave anyone out, every robot that's appeared in Descent 2 has been accounted for, not counting the "clone" varieties.

Tested out the robots on the test map twice. I noticed that not every time does the robot's "notice" sound play, sometimes they go straight for their "attack" sound, that's why you don't always hear what you should. What struck me as weird is the same stuff that you mentioned.

- Fiddler's "notice" cry is the same as Fusion Hulk's trademark sound

- Hornet Clone (i dunno why I put it there, probably because there was no regular Hornet). I think it's the 400 point variety vs the 300 point one that spawns from destroyed spiders (or was it the other way around?) Anyway, it uses the same cry as the Red Spiderling from Descent 1. I remember it doing it in the original game too, though, so it's probably not just my tinkering.

- While testing the second time, the E-bandit stuck repeating its "notice" sound, and I couldn't hear its regular sound at all. This is probably an error in the game itself, as I have noticed this happen in Counterstrike, some bots have even their sounds switched, like for example the BPER in Y'Tor III use the sounds of the PTMC Defense Prototype rather than their own. So again, not my fault.

So yeah, the stuff you talked about will have to be changed.

Yah the BPer clone sounds like a ptmc defense prototype for whatever reason and it also default drops guided missiles instead of shields.
And sometimes the bots do go straight to the attack sound, I've seen that even in vanilla D2.

Alter-Fox wrote:Yah the BPer clone sounds like a ptmc defense prototype for whatever reason and it also default drops guided missiles instead of shields.
And sometimes the bots do go straight to the attack sound, I've seen that even in vanilla D2.

Ohhh, so these are BPER Clones after all. Ok, had no idea. These are placed in the first Baloris Prime level instead of the regular ones. Dammit, too bad Parallax couldn't only operate on HXMs and had to add whole new robot instances... but then again, they didn't have advanced editing tools like those that are available now.

Come to think of it, there's also the individual "boss dying" sounds that never got used, but are in the archives as well. Since there's only the one boss death sound that got used in D2 but there's files that were left unused, one of those could be used as well and the fade sound effect could be left alone.

I don't think I have the tools I need to fix up the sound patches and .HAM for just the couple of edits we need, so who compiled the files for you before?

NaphthaTurisas wrote:Come to think of it, there's also the individual "boss dying" sounds that never got used, but are in the archives as well. Since there's only the one boss death sound that got used in D2 but there's files that were left unused, one of those could be used as well and the fade sound effect could be left alone.

I don't think I have the tools I need to fix up the sound patches and .HAM for just the couple of edits we need, so who compiled the files for you before?

I did it all myself, using DTX2 and HAXMED32. It required some doing to get the software to edit the HAM, though. It usually doesn't let you touch Descent2.HAM to prevent you from abusing changes in multiplayer. I can make tweaks again, I would just need a short list of stuff that needs to be done, step by step

All, okay. So in that case:

1) Set the "evil twin see" and "fade" sounds back to their defaults.
2) Swap out one of the unused boss death sounds for the the Fusion Hulk's cry.
3) Whichever sound you swapped out in Step 2 should be both the "see" and "attack" sounds for the Fusion Hulk in the .HAM.

I think once that's done, I'd be happy to give the updated files another test to see how the weapons play and whatnot. The Plutonian Shores demo levels will definitely be the perfect test bed, since you won't be getting much of the D2 primaries to work with until later in the set.

Ok, done. All the files have been updated and are in the folder.

I think I'll do some tinkering with the bosses too, to adjust them the way we discussed earlier in the thread - Haxmed32 gives more editing possibilities than DLE-XP after all, heh heh.

A question: where to obtain the 22 kHz versions of certain robot sounds, the way they're played in Rebirth? D1 Rebirth brings all the robot sounds up to date, while they're only extractable in their 11 kHz forms from Descent.PIG. It would really help to have the 22 kHz versions so I can replace appropriate files. Using 11 kHz files often yields distorted and unnatural sounding robot cries, while it posed no problem at all in D1 Rebirth for some reason.

EDIT: Never mind, I used the hi-res sounds downloaded from the D2X-XL homepage. They sound and work nice, too! Right now I'm looking around in the game and seeing which sounds were unused too, so I can switch them out for D1 door sounds. Then I can attribute the D1 door sounds to the D1 doors with no conflict with the existing door sounds, how awesome is that! I won't be able to fit them all in, though, because they would start impinging on the existent, needed sounds. Still, I should be able to fit in at the very least two, hopefully three door sounds.

I am making Coolyard Station, Ceres Military Perimiter, S'tlo Sigma, and Doomsday Warstation. Doomsday Warstation could possibly be a collaborative effort, however.

Xfing wrote:Ok, so here's the updated level listing. We end up with only several more levels to make, but we gain balance - each game gets 18 levels and 2 secret levels, so the player will get to explore a huge chunk of D1, D2 and Vertigo in a single mission. The bosses are placed in levels not separated evenly, to make it all feel more naturally flowing and to promote suspense. I have removed the 4th-in-the-system Counterstrike levels from the listing, as they don't really fit the concept and took unnecessary space. I'll move the listing to the OP too.

Chapter I: The Solar System

01: Solar System 1: Lunar Titanium Mine Xfing: Layout Completed
02: Solar System 2: Venus SO2 Mine Xfing: Layout Completed
03: Solar System 3: Mercury Construction Hub
04: Solar System 4: Mars Covert Operations
05: Solar System 5: Ceres Military Perimeter (Boss: Red Fatty)
06: Solar System 6: Ganymede Outpost
07: Solar System 7: Rhea Mine
08: Solar System 8: Umbriel Tholin Research
09: Solar System 9: Proteus Cyanide Mine
10: Solar System 10: Charon Orbital Research
11: Solar System 11: Orcus Ammonia Mine
12: Solar System 12: Quaoar Alcane Mine
13: Solar System 13: Varuna Military Base (Boss: Quartzon)
14: Solar System 14: Ixion Outpost
15: Solar System 15: Haumea Collisional Research Lab
16: Solar System 16: Makemake Mining Shaft
17: Solar System 17: Eris Military Base Taken by Xfing
18: Solar System 18: Sedna Lost Station (Boss: Baloris Prime) Xfing: Layout Completed

Secret Level 1: Asteroid Weapons Research
Secret Level 2: Kuiper Belt Espionage Facility

Chapter 2: The Six Extrasolar Systems

19: Zeta Aquilae 1: Circularis NaphthaTurisas: Layout Completed
20: Zeta Aquilae 2: Coolyard Station
21: Quartzon 1: Quartzon Aqua Distillata Factory
22: Zeta Aquilae 3: Military Hub
23: Quartzon 2: Falls Of Truth (Boss: Vertigo 1)
24: Brimspark 1: The Grandcrisp Oven
25: Quartzon 3: Planetary Life Research
26: Brimspark 2: The Cauldron
27: Limefrost Spiral 1: Glacierspire Taken by Sirius
28: Brimspark 3: Metamorphic Rock Excavation (Boss: Brimspark)
29: Limefrost Spiral 2: Salt Distillation Facility
30: Baloris Prime 1: Ktsch'k W'eng II
31: Puuma Sphere 1: Wing N'drsaedt
32: Puuma Sphere 2: S'tlo Sigma (Boss: D1 Boss 1)
33: Baloris Prime 2: Ku'thaaz G'herb-ilk Station Xfing: Completed
34: Baloris Prime 3: L'aeev Installation
35: Puuma Sphere 3: R'eeie
36: Limefrost Spiral 3: Frosted Minerals Abyss (Boss: Limefrost)

Secret Level 3: Quartzon Planetary Vault
Secret Level 4: Fata Morgana Tunnels

Chapter 3: Beta Ceti

37: Beta Ceti 1: Zandura II
38: Beta Ceti 2: Virus Research Lab 665
39: Beta Ceti 3: N'tala Shadowy Corridors (Boss: Tycho Brahe) Taken by Xfing
40: Beta Ceti 4: PTMC Remote Tracking Station
41: Beta Ceti 5: Sheltem Mech Factory
42: ???
43: ???
44: ???
45: ???
46: ???
47: ???(Boss: D1 Boss 2)
48: ???
49: ???
50: ???
51: ???
52: ???
53: Beta Ceti : Beta Ceti Military Base Taken by Xfing
54: Beta Ceti 7: Doomsday Warstation (Boss: Vertigo 2)

Secret Level 5: Katatonia
Secret Level 6: Dementia

The Beta Ceti levels have their names intentionally left blank. As the most adventurous levels and being "everything goes" in terms of theme and design, I feel that maybe in these cases it would be best to allow the designer to come up with their own name for the level. Unorthodox names and ones containing references to pop culture will be appreciated.

I am suggesting that the 4th system levels that were removed become Beta Ceti levels.

42 levels is already very ambitious.

A bit too ambitious perhaps. But look at the Doom community. I have no idea how different is the time needed to create a modern Doom level to the time needed to create any Descent level, but those guys whip up full megawads in mere months. But there's plenty of them, alright. Trying to do that same thing on your own will naturally take much longer

Tell me about it. I'm currently stalled on a 50-level set of Descent Arcade. I've finished 10+ levels, but I'm just a bit pooped out on the whole matter. I'll eventually release what I have, but not until its fully finished!

DarkFlameWolf wrote:Tell me about it. I'm currently stalled on a 50-level set of Descent Arcade. I've finished 10+ levels, but I'm just a bit pooped out on the whole matter. I'll eventually release what I have, but not until its fully finished!

Dammit, and here I was hoping to get a level or two from you as well. And other community designers

Xfing wrote:A bit too ambitious perhaps. But look at the Doom community. I have no idea how different is the time needed to create a modern Doom level to the time needed to create any Descent level, but those guys whip up full megawads in mere months. But there's plenty of them, alright. Trying to do that same thing on your own will naturally take much longer

Descent is a fully 3D engine. That alone adds a lot more work time into making a good, high-quality map. I've tried out a little bit of mapping for Doom 2 recently, and once you've wrapped your head around how to create doors and elevators, you could have a good, mid-sized map put together in a few hours. In Descent, even creating a relatively small map like Litter Jungle, after having a lot of experience with the engine, took me somewhere between sixteen and eighteen hours for just the "main" structure and object placement. And then I had to place triggers and get the lighting just right, and add the secrets.

Interesting... I have always wanted to take a crack at Doom designing (especially after playing the wonderful CC4), but I think I'll stick to Descent for the time being

Status Update: A worst-case scenairo has happened. The lapotp that I am working on currently has a battery that refuses to charge. Seeing about buying a new battery, but it will take a while.

LightWolf wrote:Status Update: A worst-case scenairo has happened. The lapotp that I am working on currently has a battery that refuses to charge. Seeing about buying a new battery, but it will take a while.

That's horrible news! I feel for you man : (

Even worse than that: It is the only computer of mine (I also have a standard tower PC) that has Coolyard Station. CS Looks awesome! I wish I could finish sooner.

Battery still won't charge.

Can't you plug in the laptop and work like that?
My laptops work from wall-socket power even if I remove the batteries entirely.

I've updated Sedna.

- added two new areas: one being an alternate route to the blue door room with another blue door, the other being a semi-elaborate room with another red door. There's a twist to that route, though.
- added a rather elaborate secret teleporter puzzle - not extremely difficult to pull off as far as technicalities go, but nigh impossible to do without knowledge. Take a shot!

Please feel free to test the level, you can also correct the geometry in some places if you feel like it, I admit that the geometry in the new areas can be sloppy as it was hasty work.

Alter-Fox wrote:Can't you plug in the laptop and work like that?
My laptops work from wall-socket power even if I remove the batteries entirely.

My Dell Inspirion Mini won't do that, but it may just be mine. I am suspecting that both the wire and battery are messed up (I know someone with a USB charger to plug into a tower PC)

I have decided to make BC11. I think I'll call it Y'ledda Caverns*.

*Deadly Caverns

I think I'll also go sigma. S'tlo Sigma!
Xfing, I hope you don't mind if I use Baloris Prime textures. I will stick to the Puuma Sphere robot guidelines, except the robots will have their Puuma Sphere textures changed to Baloris Prime textures, and the Lou Guard will be replaced with the Super Hulk..