DescentBB

Thanks Cuda, I don't think any of us actually knew what a business does and what a profit is. Nobody is going to say it's unethical for a business to want to make money, that's silly, but we find unethical is the way the acquisition of profit is handled. Making money is wonderful, but so is treating your employees with respect, paying them a livable salary, and not doing something technically legal but completely immoral (i.e. taking out insurance on CDOs that you know are junk and selling them anyways, hoping that they fail).

The guy that ran Massey (?) Mining cut every safety corner so he could turn a bigger profit. His company had the worst safety record out there. Yes mining is a dangerous business, but where is the line drawn? How many lives is that extra 1/2% in the third quarter worth? Ten? Twenty?

Yea, it makes you wonder if regulations are worth the paper they’re written on.

Yea, I think we might all agree that fewer, but actually enforced, regulations might be the key.

TC wrote:CUDA, you indicated once that you owned or worked in a body shop? How do you keep a loyal customer base? Does your shop do good work, or do you slap the car back together and hit it with a coat of paint to hide the sins and make the insurance company happy? Being a mechanic myself, if I got my car back from a body shop that did hidden shoddy work, I would make sure a LOT of people would be hearing about it and perhaps putting a dent in your business. But if your shop did good work, I'd be recommending you to as many people as I could. What goes around comes around, profit or no profit.

TC have you ever heard of Ron Tonkin?? I am the Manager of his lone Body shop. I choose not to whore myself out to insurance companies like many shops do. looking for the guaranteed work at the sacrifice of the discounts to the insurance companies. (I'll wager you went to the shop they told you to go to) those discounts come with a price. they always do. I have been told by people that we cost too much and take too long. but as I tell my customers "I don't work for Insurance companies I work for you and quality takes time" I do my best to not use aftermarket parts. but I fight an Oregon laws that says insurance companies can make me use them. however I sometimes have ways around that law.
I will put the quality of my work against anyone in the state. I do almost $5,000,000 a year in sales and I net close to 8% of those sales. I could make more money if my cycle time was lower and I sacrificed my quality, or if I didn't care about my quality and used those imitation parts that the insurance company called for, or if I waived customers deductibles and did the crappy work required to achieve those goals but I don't.
FYI one Larger insurance company (bump pa dump bump, bump, bump, bump) has been calling for the use of Illegal aftermarket structural parts to repair their customers cars, which IMO would compromise the safety of that vehicle. but I will not use them and have many times paid the difference from my own profits, and do you know why I don't use them? because it's MY name on those repairs. and the only thing I have is my name. and it is something I am not willing to sacrifice.

CUDA wrote:TC have you ever heard of Ron Tonkin?? I am the Manager of his lone Body shop. I choose not to whore myself out to insurance companies like many shops do. looking for the guaranteed work at the sacrifice of the discounts to the insurance companies. (I'll wager you went to the shop they told you to go to) those discounts come with a price. they always do. I have been told by people that we cost too much and take too long. but as I tell my customers "I don't work for Insurance companies I work for you and quality takes time" I do my best to not use aftermarket parts. but I fight an Oregon laws that says insurance companies can make me use them. however I sometimes have ways around that law.
I will put the quality of my work against anyone in the state. I do almost $5,000,000 a year in sales and I net close to 8% of those sales. I could make more money if my cycle time was lower and I sacrificed my quality, or if I didn't care about my quality and used those imitation parts that the insurance company called for, or if I waived customers deductibles and did the crappy work required to achieve those goals but I don't.
FYI one Larger insurance company (bump pa dump bump, bump, bump, bump) has been calling for the use of Illegal aftermarket structural parts to repair their customers cars, which IMO would compromise the safety of that vehicle. but I will not use them and have many times paid the difference from my own profits, and do you know why I don't use them? because it's MY name on those repairs. and the only thing I have is my name. and it is something I am not willing to sacrifice.

I have heard of Ron Tonkin. My parents even bought cars there in the past. I'm also glad you have the work and quality ethic that seems to be missing from a lot of American businesses. Auto body repair can be of the snakiest businesses around too, for the insurance reasons you quoted. In fact, I will keep your shop in mind if I need some car body work done, even though you're in Portland. Your passion for your work has sold me.

Cuda wrote:I choose not to whore myself out to insurance companies like many shops do.

Having Insurance in the middle almost always increases costs and reduces quality. Its true in the medical field, it's obviously true in auto repair as well. I applaud your avoidance of it.

If people want to succeed, they need to remember that this formula:

1) make money
2) spend money

fails

It's actually:

1) make money
2) invest money (in every basket you can get ahold of)

Just that simple huh?

Yep.

May I ask you to devise another formula...

Perhaps one where you explain how a family that makes 30k a year can support said family and still find money to "invest"? I think that's the formula that many people would like.

Zuruck wrote:May I ask you to devise another formula...

Perhaps one where you explain how a family that makes 30k a year can support said family and still find money to "invest"? I think that's the formula that many people would like.

The answer is, they can't. The next question is, would they want to even invest in a market that might lose it all for them in the blink of an eye. They also can't make enough to even throw into a meager savings account either, not that that would give any return nowadays.

I'm not speaking strictly market investment. Invest in anything. Start a business, do flip projects, buy some tools and do a job on the side. Become a distributor for something. You gotta spend money to make money. But you have to be willing to do it.

Umm....how does one spend money they simply don't have? Do you see the argument we keep presenting? Way too many families have to work multiple jobs just so they can live paycheck to paycheck. It's just not as simple as you make it sound; I wish it was.

Don't have kids before you get married and don't get married until after your out of college. By then you will be half established and get to spend your money on houses and cars and toys. Get that stuff before you have a family and your set.

flip wrote:Don't have kids before you get married and don't get married until after your out of college. By then you will be half established and get to spend your money on houses and cars and toys. Get that stuff before you have a family and your set.

OK. How does one pay for college nowadays without going into hock for the rest of their life? Linus Pauling went to Oregon State University for FREE back in the 1920's. Now, only the rich and privileged can to afford it, further eroding the chances of upward mobility for those who are less fortunate.

Tunnelcat wrote:How does one pay for college nowadays without going into hock for the rest of their life? Linus Pauling went to Oregon State University for FREE back in the 1920's. Now, only the rich and privileged can to afford it

It IS a serious problem. Ron Paul worked his way through medical school, you can't DO that anymore, and I think the blame lays on guaranteed student loans. As soon as the government started the loan program, the price of a college education started going up, because it's part of the natural economic process that any business will raise it's prices to match the amount people are willing to pay. So we now have a very BAD system where people come out of college so deep in debt that it is a SERIOUS handicap in getting started in life. Some time serious enough to completely derail them.

Work harder.