DescentBB

Grendel wrote:Getting a bit out of control...

two of my friends work on that project.....well, I think they do, as they don't say too much, but they are expert cryptographers, and work for a known NSA contractor(Mitre). On the plus side, these guys are great for help setting up a secure home wireless system, and make great fishing buddies!!

LOL! Sounds like the last 2 people on Earth I'd let set my security up, not that it matters, just that out of everyone in the world, they sound like the most likely to enjoy listening in

flip wrote:LOL! Sounds like the last 2 people on Earth I'd let set my security up, not that it matters, just that out of everyone in the world, they sound like the most likely to enjoy listening in

no, they aren't the type....really. Most of what these guys actually focus on isn't listening in, but preventing the world from listening in. I'm not at all sure I buy all the premises in that article, especially about the purposeful creation of weaknesses.....plus, I figure the NSA can get into my network no matter what, but I have gone 6 years without anyone else hacking it.

True enough. I have 2 brother in laws that work on things similar. Very smart guys that have no idea what the higher ups are doing, and the higher ups are not even capable of doing what they do. It stands to reason that the NSA can break any kind of encryption, it's mostly government funded research that goes into these algorithms is my understanding, so of course they are gonna have privilege in those matters. Ugly or not, in todays cyber-world, it is an issue of national security.

heck, Flip, just on the home level, I was getting around 6 attacks per day aimed at a wireless router. Most people don't even see it, unless they are using robust home security software, and even that is going to fail if enough attacks hit the computers themselves. At the national level, both governmental and business computers are under a constant worldwide attack, largely from China and Russia, but to a lesser extent from everyplace else.

NSA infiltrates links to Yahoo, Google data centers worldwide. Wow.

the President knows nothing about it!

which raises the question. does he know he's President????

IMO, making this into a political football about the President undermines how serious these revelations are.

What strikes me is that people out there are still saying, "they're only collecting metadata, nothing really private", which just makes it clear they haven't been paying attention.

Riddle me this. If the NSA is so good, why are the Chinese constantly hacking into our most secure govt computers?

It's easier to commit crime than prevent crime.

woodchip wrote:Riddle me this. If the NSA is so good, why are the Chinese constantly hacking into our most secure govt computers?

1. The NSA sucks at what it does, but was never suppose to be a firewall

2. The NSA is suppose to be looking for threats we don't know about.

3. Everyone knows about the Chinese "hackers", because they're the most heavy handed hackers on the planet. If American hackers are as stealthy as invisible ninjas, the Chinese hackers like Hulk Hogan with a chain saw.

CUDA wrote:the President knows nothing about it!

which raises the question. does he know he's President????

I know your joking, but has it dawned on you that the NSA has gotten so big and so powerful, it's formed it's own government within the government and now tells itself what's legal or illegal to do without the president's authorization? Sure, Obama knows some of the stuff they're doing and broke his promise to expose and curtail government spying on Americans, which I don't forgive him for either. But I doubt he has the time to provide full oversight over the whole monster that's grown since it's inception. You might also want to blame the Senate for not doing their job of oversight either.

The CIA has had it's own "uninhibited growth spurt" problems. Don't you remember the 1973 CIA "Family Jewels" incident, where it was found the CIA has overstepped it's authority by assassinating foreign leaders and spying on American war protestors? Plus it turned out that Nixon had attempted to use the CIA to block any FBI investigations over Watergate.

damned if I can remember either author or title, TC, but there was a brilliant book out a few years ago speaking to your entire point. The author traced the rise and growth of what is essentially a shadow government based upon secrecy and classified information, operating almost completely outside any Congressional or Executive oversight. The process started with the Manhatten Project and just got larger and larger.

you could always take Rep Rogers' view:
https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20131 ... t-it.shtml

callmeslick wrote:you could always take Rep Rogers' view:
https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20131 ... t-it.shtml

Intelligence Committee Chairman?!?

I'd like to think there is a logical explanation behind that comment but I just don't think there can be.

When he was presented with the analogy of the sound of a falling tree in the forest he doesn't flinch or jump to clarify a misunderstanding....he heard it, he understood the challenge it represented in the context of the discussion and yet he stood fast upon his complete disregard for the true and legal concept of privacy.

callmeslick wrote:damned if I can remember either author or title, TC, but there was a brilliant book out a few years ago speaking to your entire point. The author traced the rise and growth of what is essentially a shadow government based upon secrecy and classified information, operating almost completely outside any Congressional or Executive oversight. The process started with the Manhatten Project and just got larger and larger.

Is it this book? The Lawless State

no, but that looks interesting, too, TC.

More than one president has outright said the same thing, on National Television. People don't want to believe it because that would demand immediate action, and the US has turned into a bunch of pussies. It suits me fine, whatever happens, because I know that it's impossible to enslave high-minded people with the utmost integrity. That's like a cosmic law.

flip wrote:More than one president has outright said the same thing, on National Television. People don't want to believe it because that would demand immediate action, and the US has turned into a bunch of pussies. It suits me fine, whatever happens, because I know that it's impossible to enslave high-minded people with the utmost integrity. That's like a cosmic law.

Heck, flip, I have a pretty optimistic view of my fellow citizens, but you have me beat.......

Well, you know the old saying, you can take a pretty smart individual, put him in a huge crowd and make an idiot of him.

Grendel wrote:NSA infiltrates links to Yahoo, Google data centers worldwide. Wow.

More details.

That's the purpose of the NSA. What else did you expect?

Oh really ?

Grendel wrote:Oh really ?

Well the last three words of the mission say "under all circumstances".
Politicians love to play with definitions. Just look at how much justification/rationalization they have found in three other words "the general welfare".

Love the last bullet point: "Maintain or strengthen privacy and civil liberties protections."

I think they forgot about that part of their "mission statement".