DescentBB

sigma wrote:I hate only their views of me as the girl looks at the boy when she wants him.

Because you also want gay sex and are ashamed?

sigma wrote:And in my opinion, the West shows excessive tolerance to LGBT.

There is no such thing as showing excessive tolerance to an oppressed minority.

sigma wrote:Yes, and I can not say that I enjoy too lengthy conversation on this topic...

Since you only show bigotry and have nothing new to add to the conversation, it's best you don't talk at all.

The argument is over. Civilized, intelligent people understand homosexuality is a natural part of human biology. It may take another generation or two but the ignorance of this will eventually disappear.

Vision, I think that you will find a better part of the American society thinks otherwise. They've just been bullied into silence.

Duper wrote:Vision, I think that you will find a better part of the American society thinks otherwise. They've just been bullied into silence.

It's generational. I don't think, if one limits the discussion to those under 40, that you are remotely close to correct, and for political purposes, that shows the long-term path of this issue. Bullied? Seriously? Do you really think that big a group can be willfully ignorant and bullied into not displaying that ignorance? I think it more a matter that until the past 40 years or so, the matter wasn't discussed, and until that point, few people bothered to examine their views or knowledge about homosexuality. With time comes wisdom. As Vision points out, by now, anyone who looks at the issue without some sort of religious or other blinders on cannot help but conclude that homosexuality is not only a normal component of Human biology, it is a measurable component of virtually every mammalian species to some degree.

oh, why not toss this into the discussion?http://variety.com/2013/film/news/andre ... 200561298/


or, as George Takei is fond of saying: "Oh, My!"

Ohhhh Noooo, Spidey was bitten by a gay spider….nnoooooooo

The only problem I have with that concept is, Spidey wasn’t written as gay from the beginning, so changing him now for political purposes, doesn’t make any sense. (well politically it does)

Yes Slick Bullied. I didn't write that on accident. You probably haven't grown up to see political correctness has been used as a tool to keep people quite. I have. I was in highschool long before there was such a thing. As such, I watched as it was used by the political and social elite to silence opponents.

i find it interesting these days when hate language like homophobe is acceptable while fagot is not.

Spidey, sarcasm looks really ugly on you. Stop.

No

Duper wrote:Yes Slick Bullied.

You are in no way being bullied. What you are seeing is people rising up against the bullies. It hurts doesn't it? You mean you have to keep your views quiet? Like Homosexuals have for the entire history of the US and even now are still uneasy about coming out? Awwww boooo friggin hoooo. Here are some tears: Too bad there isn't a violin icon on this forum.

<Anecdote> It took my cousin until he was 25 to come out. Everyone in the family knew he was gay before he even hit puberty. When he finally came out everyone was like, "uh yeah, duh, we knew that. took you long enough." But even though his sisters, cousins, his aunts and uncles, and grandparents all knew and accepted it long before he confessed, it was his blindly religious father who screwed the whole thing up and caused him great distress for too many years. Bastard.</Anecdote>

So go stick your "bullied" argument up your behind where I know you really want it anyway. It's time for the ignorant bullies of the wold to swallow their unwarranted hate for the betterment of humanity. Let gays be gay because they can't do a damn thing about being gay and there isn't anything wrong with homosexuality anyway.

If you weren't so ignorant you would notice that things become politically correct after society wakes up to injustice. I don't believe political correctness can go overboard where sensitivity is needed, however, I do believe we shouldn't be putting people in boxes either. Your sexuality, your religion, none of these things make you special or give you any moral superiority. Ignorance, however, needs to be called out whenever possible or we can't grow as a society.

Hating people who are gay is like hating people who eat oysters. The thought of eating oysters turns my stomach. Some people love them. But you know what? Oysters, just like homosexuality, are not my business and don't affect me or anyone else in the slightest. I would never tell someone who eats oysters they shouldn't enjoy the same benefits I do.

You really haven't been paying attention to media or culture these last 30 years huh?

sorry Vision, you're wrong.

Duper wrote:Yes Slick Bullied. I didn't write that on accident. You probably haven't grown up to see political correctness has been used as a tool to keep people quite. I have. I was in highschool long before there was such a thing. As such, I watched as it was used by the political and social elite to silence opponents.

i find it interesting these days when hate language like homophobe is acceptable while fagot is not.

Spidey, sarcasm looks really ugly on you. Stop.

dude, I'm 58 years old. I've seen plenty.

Yes, a lot of people have their opinions silenced by the PC elite, and I think even more people are silenced by being on the receiving end of constant temper tantrums as well, which is a shame because the tolerance of something as benign as homosexuality should be as vision points out…but sadly it isn’t always the case, and more often than not the result is resentment, backlash & continued misunderstanding.

Duper wrote:You really haven't been paying attention to media or culture these last 30 years huh?

sorry Vision, you're wrong.

You are right, I have not because it's a bunch of crap. I think you pay too much attention to media and not enough on facts.

vision wrote:

sigma wrote:I hate only their views of me as the girl looks at the boy when she wants him.

Because you also want gay sex and are ashamed?

if much to drink, in the head many interesting desires are born, it is the truth. Prostitute girls and beautiful prostitute boys with an ecstasy pack to me repeatedly suggested to forget that I am the orthodox heterosexualist who loves my girl that I am the sergeant of the Russian Army, the defender of the Homeland who has a concept that such honor and dignity, that I am simply decent person. In other words, they suggested me to throw out, in my opinion, on a garbage can all labors of my parents which put a lot of effort for my education. My authority and self-esteem means to me much more, than pleasure probably pleasant, but vicious desires.

What.

He said if you drink too much, and you have the average level of insanity, anything can happen unless you value your family and your honor more than selfish pleasure. Also I think there was something in there about Vision's Mom, but Russian grammar superimposed on English is still a little strange to me.

You're only gay when you're drunk? Alcohol makes it more difficult to inhibit your desires, but it doesn't give birth to them like you describe.

He's saying you become what thoughts you choose to accept. Why is it that everything is a choice except sexual orientation? My step-fathers best friend tried his best to molest me when I was 11 years old. I had the opportunity right then to give it a try or not. I could have given in, as he wasn't being anything more than persistent, but no way, I had rather have self-respect and a good feeling about myself than to let some dude crawl up on my back.

flip wrote:Why is it that everything is a choice except sexual orientation?

There are a ★■◆●-load of things about ourselves that we can't choose. Even ignoring the obvious physical attributes, people don't choose to have a mental disorder or a learning disability, or to be a child prodigy, or to be allergic to certain foods, or to have genetic predispositions toward certain cancers, or any number of other things. Our sexual preference is just one drop in that bucket, and we don't choose it any more than we choose our eye color. What happened in your childhood, while certainly unfortunate, doesn't really have anything to do with your sexuality; most people above a certain age would have an instant aversion to any sort of sexual contact being forced upon them.

I don't know TG, everything you named seems right except where you decide to stick your pee-pee I am of the thought that you can be anything you want to be, and being a homo is not gonna allow you to do that. That's what Sigma was trying to relay, that even though everyone is susceptible to all kinds of thoughts and desires, he had rather be a sargeant in the army and have the respect of his peers and parents, than let some guy ram him in the keister. He chooses self respect and a future over some deviant pleasure.

And why the hell shouldn't he be able to serve in the military and be respected by his peers simply because he's attracted to males? Do you realize what a fucked-up sentiment that is?

It's not a choice, any more than you "chose" to be straight at some point. Some people are attracted to their own sex. The Earth keeps on spinning. Life goes on.

flip wrote:I don't know TG, everything you named seems right except where you decide to stick your pee-pee I am of the thought that you can be anything you want to be, and being a homo is not gonna allow you to do that.

So flip, if homosexuality is a choice, when did you choose to be straight?

I believe that LGBT people who can not control his sexual attraction to the same sex because of genetic or mental defects, society are obliged to give opportunity to communicate with their own kind. But, only in sufficient isolation from most normal-oriented girls and boys. If I don't want to see nudists on beach for all, or defiantly defiant behavior of representatives of gays and lesbians on streets, on mine, I have on this right.
Now, with regard to military service. I want to tell that in the conditions of long total deficiency of women against a hyper active hormonal background of young guys, at me, for example, never arose desires to f*ck the colleague. Because the concept of the true man's friendship and mutual assistance at us was never substituted for concepts of "sexual man's friendship". Besides, you are so exhausted by physical activity that you think only of a dream and food. But, the commander was indulgent if accidentally knew that we secretly led to ourselves girls. I remember one case when a in shower one soldier stuck to other soldier with sexual intentions. The "blue" soldier next day sent home that him here didn't kill. It is possible for this reason guys who served in army, at us use special attention among girls for family creation.

If it's not a choice, then the liar has no choice, the murderer has no choice, the thief has no choice, the serial killer has no choice. I think you can choose to be anything you want to, and those choices cause you to become what you choose. If your put into a bad situation, and your hungry, you can choose to steal or beg. You can choose to find a small job, rake leaves or whatever to get you through that day. Depending on what you choose in that moment, determines your mindset for the next day and so on. I have been hungry and on the street, and had friends in the very same predicament as me. I chose not to become a criminal and find work, they chose to steal and rob banks. Those choices led to who we became over time. I don't think that we can blame everything on choice, EXCEPT, deviant sexual behavior.

sigma wrote:Prostitute girls and beautiful prostitute boys with an ecstasy pack to me repeatedly suggested to forget that I am the orthodox heterosexualist who loves my girl

If you find both men and women sexually attractive, then if for whatever reason you wanted to ignore your desire for men, you could still have sex with women. However, when you ask a gay man who doesn't find women attractive to ignore his desire for men, then you're asking a much greater thing of him--you're asking him to be celibate.

flip wrote:If it's not a choice, then the liar has no choice, the murderer has no choice, the thief has no choice, the serial killer has no choice.

Sex is a choice, but who you want to have sex with isn't a choice.

11 year olds do not think about sex though

flip wrote:If it's not a choice, then the liar has no choice, the murderer has no choice, the thief has no choice, the serial killer has no choice.

Those are completely different concepts that have no relation to one's sexuality. I've already listed a number of personal characteristics that don't depend on conscious choice at all, and homosexuality is just one more of them. Please don't erect straw-men.

flip wrote:11 year olds do not think about sex though

Umm, what universe do you live in? 5th or 6th grade is exactly when most kids START thinking about sex.

Top Gun wrote:Umm, what universe do you live in? 5th or 6th grade is exactly when most kids START thinking about sex.

Isn't is obvious? The "flip" universe where facts are flipped to mean the opposite.

You guys live in a flipped Universe and don't know it. Your just all a bunch of highly evolved apes at the mercy of your genetic programming.

flip wrote:You guys live in a flipped Universe and don't know it. Your just all a bunch of highly evolved apes at the mercy of your genetic programming.

Yes we are highly evolved apes at the mercy of our genetic programming. How is that flipped? These are facts.

I've come to the conclusion that people who think sexuality is a choice are probably bisexual and either don't know it or don't accept it due to social pressures (which is sad and reinforces why we need more acceptance of varied sexuality). It's really the only explanation other than brainwashing.

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I love how Visions response to anybody that is against homosexuality, means they must be gay! LOL!

Yeah, he's trolling.

I would make a much weaker claim: if you're bisexual, then it's more natural to think of choosing men versus women as a choice. And I'd even say that that explains sigma's views on this issue. But of course if you're purely gay or purely straight, no such choice exists.

Well I say, you have to have thought about it to decide whether you are or not.

I think Sigma needs a better translator, because nowhere in his posts did I get the idea he was gay. (or bi)

Or maybe I did...I can't be sure...

flip wrote:Well I say, you have to have thought about it to decide whether you are or not.

It's not a decision if there is only one choice. Gay people can't decide to be straight. Every gay person I know when asked "when did you know you were gay" has said "I always knew." They didn't have to decide anything, just like you didn't have to decide if you were a boy or a girl. As soon as you knew what the difference was between the two you knew which one you were. Of course, you would know this if you had actually befriended a gay person at any point in your life. But it's probably more comfortable for you to just talk about "those gays" than to actually get to know them as human beings.

You know Vision, I am kind to everyone and treat everybody exactly the same, but your right, I would have a hard time developing a genuine friendship with a gay. They make me uncomfortable and I don't like their mannerisms.

What "mannerisms" do you think gay people have, other than the stereotypes you'd see in a shitty sitcom?

I use three different online translators. And I do of them the most correct translation. On mine I state the thoughts most clearly as far as it is possible. I will try to speak short offers. If I am not a gay, it doesn't mean that gays need to be shot. Listen, and why gays how a society illness, more rights in society, than геронтофилы have to have, zoophiles, necrophiles, pedophiles, etc.? They what not people? By the way about pedophiles. I am not a pedophile. I don't feel uncontrollable passion to children in the sexual relation. But I am attracted more by very young girls, than women aged. It is possible because I felt the first sexual attraction to with the coevals at teenage age. It is the nature. The nature hurries boys and girls to leave posterity somewhat quicker, it is clear. But the adult man is obliged to supervise the sexual desires. To the juvenile girl. To the sister. To mother. To the guy. And so society after all doesn't need to palm off during puberty and hyper sexuality of teenagers on all potentially normally focused girls and boys of a toy, advertizing, videoclips, movies which will push them to thought of full freedom of the sexual behavior? ? ? I don't know how it is more clear to express the my opinion.

sigma wrote: But I am attracted more by very young girls, than women aged..

I find that is also my case. I found myself staring then this thought flashes across my mind. "When Did I become a Dirty Old Man and a Pervert.

Heh, that's because most girls will never look as good or be as as smooth as they are at 17, lol but, they do kind of look a lot like chipmunks to me now to. I must be getting old . TG, it's not like I havn't known any homosexuals. In fact, one used to live next door to me. He was the real girly type, almost like they have no backbone or something and would look at you suggestively and stare at your crotch. I found him disgusting but also one of God's creations, although somewhere in his line and down the line he got screwed up.