What the world has come to...

[Darth Wang]

On the contrary. I’d love to go up in a spaceship if it were possible.

It's possible, just raise a few billion dollars.

[Neo]

I added something to my post.

[Darth Wang]

I added something to my post.

Then you would be able to measure it with those signals, and yet you can't, but they can bounce signals off much further objects, such as the moon.

[Neo]

Who says they can’t? I don’t believe signals can be bounced off the moon.

[Darth Wang]

Ask any Ham Radio operator if they can.

[Tunnelcat]

On the contrary. I’d love to go up in a spaceship if it were possible. You can bounce signals off of it. How else would one do it? There is no “ionosphere.” You just answered your own question.

Yes there is. Otherwise, there wouldn't be any aurora borealis, unless you believe God is painting the firmament with moving fire or some such nonsense. You can even see that the auroras themselves are above the line of the atmosphere and the space station itself is above the auroras, just barely. I don't see the station hitting the firmament ceiling either.

[Top Gun]

Who says they can’t? I don’t believe signals can be bounced off the moon.

You know what I always tell my students that the best thing is about the scientific method? It doesn't care at all what any of us believe. You can state that the Earth is flat, or the Moon is flat, or your brain is flat, but when the overwhelming physical evidence disproves that assertion, then your beliefs mean exactly jack ★■◆●. (To be fair, that last one has some pretty hard evidence supporting it.) So as always, if you're trying to make these claims, then either put up or shut up.

[Neo]

Why don't you research the claims just in case it's right, just for your own knowledge? I don't care much about proving it to you.

I don't believe God created auroras (or planets either).

[Tunnelcat]

What DID God create then? I've seen auroras even clear down here in Oregon back in the 1980's. They were a spectacular red color that time.

[Darth Wang]

Why don't you research the claims just in case it's right, just for your own knowledge?

I've done just that. Several years ago, in a debate with a flat earther, he kept insisting that ships don't actually dip below the horizon when they sail away from you, and it's all a lie. So I actually bought a pair of binoculars, went down to the beach near my house, and watched several ships sail out to sea. They all disappeared from the bottom up, just like they were supposed to.

Of course, the flat earther insisted I just wasn't using a powerful enough magnification, and if I could zoom in further, I would be able to see the ships again. They failed to explain how higher magnification would let you see ships that clearly dipped below the visible horizon, but just insisted that it would work.

In order to avoid wasting my time and money buying a telescope just to be told it still wasn't powerful enough, I demanded to know exactly what level of magnification was necessary to test their claim.

They waffled about and refused to give a straight answer, saying it could differ due to atmospheric conditions, time of day, topography, etc. So I asked them what was the minimum level of magnification necessary to make those factors irrelevant on a clear, bright day. They still refused to answer, so they could continue to move the goalposts no matter what observations I made.

It takes no magnification at all to see that flat earthers are dishonest frauds and liars.

[Top Gun]

Why don't you research the claims just in case it's right, just for your own knowledge? I don't care much about proving it to you.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. If you're the one making assertions that contradict overwhelming physical evidence observed over many centuries, then it's on you to back up your assertions. No one else is going to do the work for you. If you're not willing to do that, then you can continue to be safely ignored.

[CDN_Merlin]

The people believing the insane false stuff usually deflect any try on proving their theories. They deflect by saying you prove it etc. Same when you ask religious people to prove God exists. They can't and they wither say, it's in the Bible or you prove he doesn't exist.

[Ferno]

Huh. Look at that. Neo still expecting us to just believe him on everything he says.

Smells like a cult leader in the works.

[Krom]

Unlikely, cult leaders need at least some charisma.

[Isaac]

Unlikely, cult leaders need at least some charisma.

Don't be a party pooper. I'd listen to Neo try to give an hour long sermon. We could make bingo cards beforehand.

[Neo]

How much magnification did the binoculars have?

I've never thought you should believe everything I say. I've only believed you shouldn't ignore everything I say like the typical descent 3 player. I also know why a ship would appear to dip below the horizon. The ships I've seen just seem to fade into the background when zooming in. If it dips below the horizon then it would be the same reason the sun appears to dip below the horizon.

You are the one who is responsible for your own knowledge when you die. It is appointed man once to die and then the judgment. Don't blame a "crackpot" or "religious nuts" or whatever for not telling you what you need to know. To me it looks like Wang didn't talk to the right flat earther, and I've been the wrong one too before when I didn't have as much knowledge of it. Either that or he's a liar. I don't want to have a debate about flat earth. Someone told me why I shouldn't talk about it. It's also not a heaven or hell issue.

Genesis 1 says nothing of planets or auroras. Something's going on where those poles are. heh

[Top Gun]

Genesis 1 says nothing of planets or auroras. Something's going on where those poles are. heh

Did Genesis 1 ever say that it should be taken literally? Even though it is very, very clearly written in the language of poetic allegory?

[Darth Wang]

How much magnification did the binoculars have?

How much do you believe they would need?

[Neo]

I asked you first.

[Neo]

Genesis 1 says nothing of planets or auroras. Something's going on where those poles are. heh

Did Genesis 1 ever say that it should be taken literally? Even though it is very, very clearly written in the language of poetic allegory?

Genesis 1 never said not to take it literally. Satan just made up different origin stories that sounded mythical so that people would think the book of Genesis was a myth. Christians know deep down inside… and outside… that it’s literal, they are just lacking information. It was supposed to be a mystery. Certain people who are in the know have enough knowledge to see a literal Bible creation story but they ain’t talking. If you don’t know what man was or that a fruit can do something, if you don’t know how the trees worked or what a tree is in general then you won’t know what I’m talking about.

[TigerRaptor]

"Satan just made up different origin stories". Sounds like you and Satan are good buddies.

[Darth Wang]

I asked you first.

Evading, just like I knew you would. I'm not falling for this shell game.

[woodchip]

I asked you first.

Evading, just like I knew you would. I'm not falling for this shell game.

You already did.

[Darth Wang]

I asked you first.

Evading, just like I knew you would. I'm not falling for this shell game.

You already did.

How so? I know that he won't tell me what magnification I supposedly need to see ships reappear after they dip below the horizon, because then he would have committed himself to a number, and I could disprove him. Flat earthers always need their claims to be unfalsifiable.

[Tunnelcat]

Yep. Nowhere has Neo put forth any proof of his flat earth claims. Blathering about a mythical demon like Satan doing this and that is not "proof", it's fantasy.

[Top Gun]

Genesis 1 never said not to take it literally. Satan just made up different origin stories that sounded mythical so that people would think the book of Genesis was a myth. Christians know deep down inside… and outside… that it’s literal, they are just lacking information. It was supposed to be a mystery. Certain people who are in the know have enough knowledge to see a literal Bible creation story but they ain’t talking. If you don’t know what man was or that a fruit can do something, if you don’t know how the trees worked or what a tree is in general then you won’t know what I’m talking about.

My guy, the text itself says not to take it literally. Even in the English translation you can hear the mythic tale in the language: the repeated regimental structure, with every stanza ending with the same "evening came and morning followed" formula. (For now let's overlook how "evening" and "morning" happened a few days before the Sun was even created.) From what little I remember from high school theology classes, the original Hebrew text is even more explicitly mythic. There's also the fact that Genesis 1 and 2 contain different and in some significant ways contradictory creation stories; most Biblical scholars point to them being recorded a few hundred years apart by two different sources. I looked into the Wiki articles and had extremely vague flashbacks of said high school theology classes.

See, this is what I love about hardcore Bible thumpers: they act as if every single word of the Bible was meant to be literal historical truth, and by doing so completely ignore the literary styles and context of what they read, which in my book is doing a massive disservice to what they profess to believe. The Bible is a collection of many different types of writings: creation mythos, historical narratives, legal texts, poems and songs, genealogies, parables, and collected letters, recorded over the span of hundreds if not over a thousand years. Maybe try taking a biblical studies class or two, Neo. You might actually learn something.

[Darth Wang]

If you really took every word in the Bible literally, you would have to believe that:

* Jesus is simultaneously a lion, a lamb, bread, light, a door, a shepherd, a vine, a root, water, and a bunch of other things
* Rain comes from bottles in the sky
* God is a rock
* Humans are made of clay
* The Pharisees are serpents
* Mountains can sing
* Trees have hands

Etc.

[woodchip]

Too bad Lothar isn't still around.

[Tunnelcat]

It would be interesting to hear his take on Trump's legal problems right now, especially since we've got 4 years of a Trump presidency in the rear view mirror and a post presidency strongman inspired insurrection under our belt. Especially read his last paragraph in one of his pre-Trump posts woody.

viewtopic.php?p=364031#p364031

[woodchip]

It would be interesting to hear his take on Trump's legal problems right now, especially since we've got 4 years of a Trump presidency in the rear view mirror and a post presidency strongman inspired insurrection under our belt. Especially read his last paragraph in one of his pre-Trump posts woody.

viewtopic.php?p=364031#p364031

You're too fixated on Trump. I meant for Lothar to comment on the bible preaching going on.

[Tunnelcat]

Well, all that Bible preaching is spawning hate, not exactly something Jesus would preach himself. This woman wasn't even LGBTQ and was shot dead just for displaying a Pride Flag by a suspect using an unregistered handgun. I'm glad the cops killed him in this case. I dare all the Bible thumpers to go protest in numbers over his death.

https://www.nbcnews.com/nbc-out/out-new ... rcna100849

[Neo]

The wages of sin is death...

[Ferno]

Well, all that Bible preaching is spawning hate, not exactly something Jesus would preach himself. This woman wasn't even LGBTQ and was shot dead just for displaying a Pride Flag by a suspect using an unregistered handgun. I'm glad the cops killed him in this case. I dare all the Bible thumpers to go protest in numbers over his death.

https://www.nbcnews.com/nbc-out/out-new ... rcna100849

Right?

Let's see just how much they support the "protect and serve" mantra. Or maybe, instead, they'll start throwing out how these cops are "woke".

That's a nice statement, neo. Shows us all that you're fine with someone dying over your misunderstanding of what the bible really says. Does your mother know how barbaric and callous you are?

[Top Gun]

If Jesus actually came back tomorrow, the first thing he'd do would be to walk up to people like Neo and punch them in the face.

[Darth Wang]

The wages of sin is death...

Just to clarify, are you saying that the shop owner deserved to die for displaying a LGBT flag?

[TigerRaptor]

Neo: A sinner judges other sinners for sinning differently. Neo is a man of iniquity. Neo is a man of convoluted bull★■◆●. I can keep going, but I'll stop here.

For someone who claims to be a Christian, people like you are the worst. God doesn't give us the authority to judge others, but he tells us to pray for others. These are some of the basic rules he laid out. Here's a question for you: why the ★■◆● would you condemn someone to hell? A place of torment and suffering where the demons are absolutely relentless.

[Tunnelcat]

One word, hate.

[Neo]

There’s a lot of hate coming from you all, not me.

[Isaac]

There’s a lot of hate coming from you all, not me.

Not me. I love you. I just wish you'd ★■◆●ing ANSWER MY QUESTION: https://descentbb.net/viewtopic.php?t=25024&start=40

[Top Gun]

There’s a lot of hate coming from you all, not me.

I do hate intolerant bigots, yes.