DescentBB

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Bet51987 wrote:

Will Robinson wrote: I think you should run for office with a D by your name, you already have the attitude down pat.

Try an R. It was George that said bad people hijacked a religion. The truth was that bad people believed what they read in that book. There was no hijack.

Bee

Fair enough the R's and D's are all the same these days.

Bet51987 wrote:Seriously, I wait for you to equate the works of Jesus with the works of Mohammad.

Bettina

Bettina, I am not trying to equate their words, merely show the wide range of results due to actions in their names. Clearly, the tone of Jesus' message was gentler(I stated that a while back), but has to be taken in the whole flow of the Bible, which includes the Old Testament. Likewise, the Koran has peaceful messages, along with very strident ones. Further, it reflects an altogether different culture(Arabian Bedouin as opposed to Israel, which was frequently subjugated).

Will Robinson wrote:After 9-11-2001 I got very interested in the region and have read a bit and paid attention to a lot of sources of info especially the live ones who lived there.

well, feck all, if you aren't an expert. FWIW, I went to school and have worked my whole adult life with practicing muslims and still wouldn't claim expertise. Just a more open view to what the religion manifests as.

You have more than just a touch of condescending superiority in your constant reminders that 'we aren't smart enough, 'we don't know enough', to comment on current events. I think you should run for office with a D by your name, you already have the attitude down pat.

sometimes, it's attitude, sometimes, it's just plain obvious truth.....

A work relationship means nothing Slick. People usually put aside their differences at the workplace.

callmeslick wrote:

You have more than just a touch of condescending superiority in your constant reminders that 'we aren't smart enough, 'we don't know enough', to comment on current events. I think you should run for office with a D by your name, you already have the attitude down pat.

sometimes, it's attitude, sometimes, it's just plain obvious truth.....

So sayeth the self absorbed, the delusional and falling pomegranates

flip wrote:A work relationship means nothing Slick. People usually put aside their differences at the workplace.

I can attest to that, you really don’t know someone till you live with them.

callmeslick wrote:...

You have more than just a touch of condescending superiority in your constant reminders that 'we aren't smart enough, 'we don't know enough', to comment on current events. I think you should run for office with a D by your name, you already have the attitude down pat.

sometimes, it's attitude, sometimes, it's just plain obvious truth.....

Truth?!? Like the "truth" you tried to create with those few sentences you chopped out of the source that pretty much contradicts the point you were trying to make.

My first exposure to the culture and the collision of western values with old school Muslim values was in 1978 with a girl I had a crush on who moved here from Lebanon and trying to get her parents to let me be her friend. I've had numerous friends from school who moved from the region, my father has worked with a lot of Arabs who's families we befriended and my brothers and I developed friendships with their children which of course leads to stories of their old homeland etc., a friend who works in Saudi Arabia most of the time who gets me up to speed each time he returns and of course a lot of reading since 9-11-2001.

No, I'm not an expert but perhaps I have a little more real life perspective than a quick google and selective cut and paste from an online encyclopedia that was the best I could do to make Muhammed look like Jesus...

Spidey wrote:

flip wrote:A work relationship means nothing Slick. People usually put aside their differences at the workplace.

I can attest to that, you really don’t know someone till you live with them.

ok, how many Muslims have you(or any of the rest of you) lived with? I'll allow for dorm or other group situations(barracks, hostels, etc).

ok, how many Muslims have you(or any of the rest of you) lived with? I'll allow for dorm or other group situations(barracks, hostels, etc).

My father taught them English at SAIC out of Fort Bliss, TX. They were friendly and we invited them to dinner. We were told it would be 'best' if my mother didn't dine with us (in their presence) in our own home.

They then reciprocated and invited us a week later to dinner. Seemed regular guys. 20 - 26. They had chicken and rice which we ate, then they promptly brought out the Q'uran and told us how we should become muslim before we were '6ft under' in a nice way- and that women should be "protected." 'They are like treasure,' one explained. They genuinely were afraid for us- not that they wished us ill, but that we were going to hell or something.

They were from the UAE. This is EXACTLY as it happened- not some embellishment.

This was well before 9/11. It was 1993 or so I think. I just thought it quirky and odd at the time, nothing more than that. I had no idea what islam was about.

callmeslick wrote:

Spidey wrote:

flip wrote:A work relationship means nothing Slick. People usually put aside their differences at the workplace.

I can attest to that, you really don’t know someone till you live with them.

ok, how many Muslims have you(or any of the rest of you) lived with? I'll allow for dorm or other group situations(barracks, hostels, etc).

The theory works with any group of people. And “lived with” in this context does not mean in the same house…

Are you really going to split every possible hair, and make me explain everything down to the last minutiae? Gets boring fast.

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TB, that sounds like a perfectly reasonable cultural exchange to me…

TB, that sounds like a perfectly reasonable cultural exchange to me…

I disagree Spidey. My house you have to submit to my customs, and vice-versa. I would have had strong words for someone that comes in my house and tries to tell my wife where she stands.

No I wouldn’t let someone come into my house and start dictating crap…The way I see it is, if the ground rules were laid out in advance and agreed to, then I don’t see a problem.

I rule my house, but if you ask me nice, I might let you use the bathroom…

TB could have said no…yes?

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TB could have said no…yes?

It really wasn't my place to say- my parents just decided to go along with it so as not to ruffle feathers for my father at work and so on. Seemed like a semi-innocuous request at the time- as it is customary in many asian cultures for women to stay away from the men when visitors discussed "business." (As offensive as it would be for us in the west.)

Bet51987 wrote:Anyway, see you in the next debate where we may even agree...but it won't be about Islam.


Bee

fair enough! Actually, at the outset of coming to this forum, I told the person who invited me that I would generally avoid religious threads, because they tend to turn circular and go nowhere, as one is dealing with belief systems, as opposed to facts. I was right, and will now join you in resting this one.

Is it not true that politics is a belief system also? Seeing how a belief system can refer to religion, life stance, ideology, world view, or any number of other philosophies. It's also true that a that a political discussion is circular.

Heretic wrote:Is it not true that politics is a belief system also? Seeing how a belief system can refer to religion, life stance, ideology, world view, or any number of other philosophies. It's also true that a that a political discussion is circular.

But what you'd really be referring to is marketing, not religion.

Heretic wrote:Is it not true that politics is a belief system also? Seeing how a belief system can refer to religion, life stance, ideology, world view, or any number of other philosophies. It's also true that a that a political discussion is circular.

to some extent true, but religious discussions hinge on fundamentals that cannot be proven(what is in the hearts and beliefs of people). In most political discussions, one has historical, economic and other facts to bring to bear.

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callmeslick wrote:...
In most political discussions, one has historical, economic and other facts to bring to bear.

The current state of politics depends so little on those things that religion is nice euphemism for the practice.