DescentBB

Sigma, just getting the facts does not always include getting all the facts.

John "Hob Nail Boots" Kerry drew a red line and I bet Putin is trembling.:

"Secretary of State John Kerry warned of serious repercussions for Russia on Monday if last-ditch talks over the weekend to resolve the crisis in Ukraine failed to persuade Moscow to soften its stance."

Maybe he can get his swift boat buddies to write stern letters to Putin stating what a tough guy Kerry is and to beware.

woodchip wrote:John "Hob Nail Boots" Kerry drew a red line and I bet Putin is trembling.:

"Secretary of State John Kerry warned of serious repercussions for Russia on Monday if last-ditch talks over the weekend to resolve the crisis in Ukraine failed to persuade Moscow to soften its stance."

Maybe he can get his swift boat buddies to write stern letters to Putin stating what a tough guy Kerry is and to beware.

apparently, Woody is a bottomless pit of hate and lies(Swift-boat nonsense). For what purpose, here, eludes me.

Ummm...what lie did I state?

And Russia tells Kerry to screw off. Lets see now what Obama does next.

I'm just curious...what is he supposed to do woodchip? Drop some nukes? End the world over Crimea?

Z.. wrote:I'm just curious...what is he supposed to do woodchip? Drop some nukes? End the world over Crimea?

Good observation. All the haters have no answers but will decry any action the president makes. Literally any action. It's complete obsession.

Here is something they could do. Don't draw a line in the sand if you aren't going to stand your ground!

That is sort of a bare minimum that even cowards usually understand. And Im not implying Obama is a coward just juxtaposing his understanding of how the world works with that of the least threatening.

He has naively set himself up for failure based on his ego/hubris over and over again. The rest of the world isn't bound by the same restraints nor motivated by the same things his political opponents are and he doesn't seem to get it.
He seems to have only one move when trying to use strength and it doesn't have any effect on most of those outside our domestic political arena. They aren't impressed with him and they aren't going to be played by him.

No Zur, It's what he shouldn't have done along with the EU. When Ukraine was asking to borrow money and Russia offered to kick in some money along with the EU, Obama and the EU shouldn't of gave Ukraine a either or option. When the duly elected president of the Ukraine decided to then go with the Russian offer and back out of joining the EU and the population started demonstrating, Obama and the EU should not of supplied money to the dissenters and backed them (and yet when the Iranians demonstrated Obama offered nothing, not even encouragement)
So It is not what Obama should do now but what he should of done prior to this occurring. All I can now see is Obama and his rookie administration only making things worse.

at the six-year mark, Woody, this is not a 'rookie' administration. Also, no one said, 'take it or leave it' from the US side, ever. Some EU nations insisted, and they were the ones down for the most money in the loan deal, not the US.

I notice you are ignoring how we funded a coup against a democratically elected govt. How rookie is that?

care to produce proof that we did anything of the sort?

Must really suck to be so blindingly uniformed:

"Pando has confirmed that the American government – in the form of the US Agency for International Development (USAID) – played a major role in funding opposition groups prior to the revolution. Moreover, a large percentage of the rest of the funding to those same groups came from a US billionaire who has previously worked closely with US government agencies to further his own business interests. This was by no means a US-backed “coup,” but clear evidence shows that US investment was a force multiplier for many of the groups involved in overthrowing Yanukovych"

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/02/2 ... Opposition

And to show contempt for international law (heck, why not, as he shows the same contempt for American law):

"Washington’s decision to provide financial aid to the coup-appointed government of Ukraine goes against the US laws, Russia’s Foreign Ministry said"

"Indeed, in accordance with the amendments introduced to the 1961 law (Foreign Assistance Act) a few years ago the provision of foreign assistance is prohibited to ‘the government of any country whose duly elected head of government is deposed by military coup or decree.’ The relevant provision is contained in 22 US Code § 8422,” the Russian Foreign Ministry said in a statement."

http://rt.com/news/us-aid-ukraine-illegal-202/

I suggest from here on in slick, you read something more than the Dems Talking Points list that they spoon feed you every week.

I do not understand. I do not understand why provoke Russia. And the American people and the Russian people want only one thing - to live in peace. Who is the source of threat to the world? Obama? No. American businessmen? Neither. Europe? That it is unprofitable. Islamic terrorists? Once again, no. If they do not receive support from the U.S., they are easy to destroy the secret services.
WHO? Who may be interested in unleashing a nuclear war between the U.S. and Russia? Probably only someone very, infinitely stupid, who does not understand the consequences.

George Soros ?

Hardly I do not know . I only see the last desperate effort the U.S. political elite to rehabilitate himself by defeating Russia . Although most likely this is all over the collapse of the American economic dominance in the world and , consequently, a monstrous decline of the United States. If referring to the history , this is the lot of all prosperous countries that have ever tried to fully capture the world domination. Apparently, the world's next economic super-empire will be China . The Chinese are smart enough to not get into a fight between the U.S. and Russia . The Chinese will have to wait and see. Unless, of course , quite possible military conflict between U.S. and Russian nuclear winter is over and the acquisition of half of the planet's radiation on the next one- two centuries. Ehhhhh...

woodchip wrote:I notice you are ignoring how we funded a coup against a democratically elected govt.

Pierre Omidyar wrote:This was by no means a US-backed “coup,” but clear evidence shows that US investment was a force multiplier for many of the groups involved in overthrowing Yanukovych.

And that US investment was from George Soros. So why blame Obama again? Oh wait, everything is Obama, even your avatar. You are totally obsessed. You need help.

I think your both obsessed, although I don't see anyone here specifically saying Obama except you Vision. Just as obsessed as one is to magnify Obama's faults, you are just as obsessed with defending him. So, in the big scheme of things, which is the most healthy? To constantly keep elected officials under check or to obsessively defend them whenever their skirt is lifted?

EDIT: Ok, my bad, you and Woody.

I repeat this stuff until I hate hearing it myself, but to anyone who was watching in the 80's, this turn back towards the Cold War is no surprise at all. You guys always like talking about how a prophet would gain credibility in your eyes if all his predictions came true. Well, I give you:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anatoliy_Golitsyn

In 1984 he predicted a long term deception strategy to lull the west into a false sense of liberalization.

In 1984, Golitsyn published the book New Lies For Old,[13] wherein he warned about a long-term deception strategy of seeming retreat from hard-line Communism designed to lull the West into a false sense of security, and finally economically cripple and diplomatically isolate the United States. Among other things, Golitsyn stated:
"The 'liberalization' [in the Soviet Union] would be spectacular and impressive. Formal pronouncements might be made about a reduction in the communist party's role; its monopoly would be apparently curtailed."
"If [liberalization] should be extended to East Germany, demolition of the Berlin Wall might even be contemplated."
"The European Parliament might become an all-European socialist parliament with representation from the Soviet Union and Eastern Europe. 'Europe from the Atlantic to the Urals' would turn out to be a neutral, socialist Europe."

Well, in 1989 Reagan demanded for Gorbachev to tear down the wall, and he did.
In 1991, the Soviet Union 'collapsed'
In 1991, Bush declared a New World Order based on international Rule of Law.
In 1991 we closed down both Clarks Air Force and Subic Bay Naval Bases.
In 1993, the European Union formed.
In 1994, NAFTA was passed.

At this moment, we are in economic decline and the attempts to diplomatically isolate us have begun. Pretty good track record I think for the guy.

Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin (Russian: Влади́мир Влади́мирович Пу́тин, IPA: [vɫɐˈdʲimʲɪr vɫɐˈdʲimʲɪrəvʲɪt͡ɕ ˈputʲɪn] ( listen), born 7 October 1952) has been the President of Russia since 7 May 2012. He previously served as President from 2000 to 2008, and as Prime Minister of Russia from 1999 to 2000 and again from 2008 to 2012. During that last term as Prime Minister, he was also the Chairman of the United Russia political party.

For 16 years Putin served as an officer in the KGB, rising to the rank of Lieutenant Colonel before he retired to enter politics in his native Saint Petersburg in 1991. He moved to Moscow in 1996 and joined President Boris Yeltsin's administration where he rose quickly, becoming Acting President on 31 December 1999 when Yeltsin resigned unexpectedly

You and every neocon and rightwinger in this country seem so fond of calling out Obama for not standing up to ol' Putin, so should Bushie also be called weak kneed for not defending Georgia when Russia charged into that country, illegally I might add. You guys have no principles.

http://crooksandliars.com/2014/03/karl- ... ent-strong

Now that 95% of Crimeans have voted to break away from Ukraine and join Russia, what now? Still think we should kick Putin's ass?

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2014/03/16 ... -tensions/

I vote we send TC over to nag Putin into submission

tunnelcat wrote:You and every neocon and rightwinger in this country seem so fond of calling out Obama for not standing up to ol' Putin, so should Bushie also be called weak kneed for not defending Georgia when Russia charged into that country, illegally I might add. You guys have no principles.

http://crooksandliars.com/2014/03/karl- ... ent-strong

Now that 95% of Crimeans have voted to break away from Ukraine and join Russia, what now? Still think we should kick Putin's ass?

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2014/03/16 ... -tensions/

No- just pointing out what an incompetent fool Obama is.

Obama is not a fool. He just has no real power. On the contrary, it is Congressmen make mistakes and dump the blame on the U.S. President. I think if Barack Obama had the real power, the United States would be able to avoid a lot of funny mistakes.
I support Cat. She says smart things.
As for Russia's actions in Abkhazia, Georgia, the Crimea, and that similar cases, I everything only will add the quote:
"The greatest art in chess is not to show your opponent that he can do."
Garry Kasparov
World champion in chess

Sigma, Obama has a lot of power and it is called "Executive Order"

and the exective order is pertinent here, why?

Sigma, it's too bad that Antonily Golitsyn had a chance to look over their shoulder then although in the long run it won't matter that he let the cat out of the bag. Everybody here just wants to discuss Obama.

callmeslick wrote:and the exective order is pertinent here, why?

Because Obama uses it to subvert established law...like postponing the health care mandates just to try and avert a political blood bath come November. So one could suppose Obama could sign any number of Executive Orders to affect Russia and it's leadership.

flip wrote:Sigma, it's too bad that Antonily Golitsyn had a chance to look over their shoulder then although in the long run it won't matter that he let the cat out of the bag. Everybody here just wants to discuss Obama.

I do not know who Anatoliy Golitsyn, unfortunately. What kind of man do you mean? This writer or journalist? If this Russian, who fled to the United States, perhaps the fruits of his labors are fantasy to amuse feelings of Americans and, at the same time, earn popularity and money on this subject.
I see that you often mention this alias. Please, give a link to his work, I want to see what he writes.

Yes, the one who fled and 100% accuracy is anything but fantasy.


EDIT: All the info can be found or traced from page 6 of this thread. All the dates and events can be verified. He sounds like a prophet to me , or just in the know. He was not only a Russian who fled, he was a top KGB agent who fled.

flip wrote:Yes, the one who fled and 100% accuracy is anything but fantasy.


EDIT: All the info can be found or traced from page 6 of this thread. All the dates and events can be verified. He sounds like a prophet to me , or just in the know. He was not only a Russian who fled, he was a top KGB agent who fled.

Ah, this ... Well, what about the reliability (or unreliability) information so we'll not know soon. I am afraid that the materials of the case in the archives of the FSB have too long declassification. It's a dark story ...
By the way, why are you afraid to give a link? You were afraid of retaliation CIA or FSB for providing such classified information?

Sigma, I am absolutely afraid of nothing . Aside from that, the links are one page back. You cannot go back one page and read my post? The links are on the Wikipedia page and the info is 20/20 hindsight

ThunderBunny wrote:

tunnelcat wrote:You and every neocon and rightwinger in this country seem so fond of calling out Obama for not standing up to ol' Putin, so should Bushie also be called weak kneed for not defending Georgia when Russia charged into that country, illegally I might add. You guys have no principles.

http://crooksandliars.com/2014/03/karl- ... ent-strong

Now that 95% of Crimeans have voted to break away from Ukraine and join Russia, what now? Still think we should kick Putin's ass?

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2014/03/16 ... -tensions/

No- just pointing out what an incompetent fool Obama is.

I guess that includes Bush as well, since he screwed up royally when he got involved in 2 wars. Maybe we should've voted in some crazy, tough warhorse like McCain in 2008, who would have had no hesitation pushing that nuclear button in a heartbeat. Russia certainly has no qualms in that arena either. YEE HAAAAA! Kiss yer asses goodby!

http://news.yahoo.com/state-tv-says-rus ... 03397.html

Curious how both Palin and Romney were vilified by the libs when they said Russia was our real concern. Doesn't seem like they were far off the mark and the libs were.

Russia shouldn't be a concern, at least not militarily. They are a great people just like us. They have the right to be a superpower, just like us. They have a right to defend their borders and national interests, just like us. Both our countries posses enough nuclear weapons to wipe every person off the face of the earth. Do you want to elect a hawkish leader who thinks that we need to get into a shooting match with another nuclear power, all in order to solve piddly military issues? I think not, unless you like the idea of being irradiated, or melted into glass. Especially not over a small country who WANTS to join Russia in the first place.

Hehe, all I know, is I'm digging tunnels and staying neck deep in the water

I would add that I understand the desire to take over the U.S. and Europe in Russia, its natural resources . Nazi Germany also had this desire . We know how it ended . I want to remind each taxpayer in the United States that their money was not spent on the development of the country , but a senseless war game . I want to remind you that the result of U.S. military activity in Afghanistan, Pakistan , Iraq, according to conservative estimates of independent researchers in 2011 , began to hundreds of thousands of civilians killed , several thousand dead American soldiers , about five million civilians were forced to flee their homes , was spent 4 trillion dollars, a few hundred billion dollars spent on the payment of benefits to veterans. In the short term costs may increase to U.S. $ 6 trillion , assuming interest payments within the war-related debt. I repeat, it is not given the U.S. military spending on military operations in other countries. And given the fact that the United States no one attacked ! Lord, for that kind of money could turn America into a paradise on earth! I think you is not hard to guess at what costs can cost U.S. military conflict with Russia , without taking into account the possible consequences of total , of which Cat said .

tunnelcat wrote:Russia shouldn't be a concern, at least not militarily. They are a great people just like us. They have the right to be a superpower, just like us. They have a right to defend their borders and national interests, just like us. Both our countries posses enough nuclear weapons to wipe every person off the face of the earth. Do you want to elect a hawkish leader who thinks that we need to get into a shooting match with another nuclear power, all in order to solve piddly military issues? I think not, unless you like the idea of being irradiated, or melted into glass. Especially not over a small country who WANTS to join Russia in the first place.

You sound just like all the wags that said the same thing about Reagan.