DescentBB

Posted: **Tue Feb 09, 2016 3:00 pm**

woodchip wrote:TC, posturing before a cop shows up is hardly resisting arrest. As to Federal property, you do know, as a holder of a CPL, I can legally carry in national parks?

I'd love to see you "posture" in front of a cop woody, telling him that you'll resist any attempts at being arrested, all the while openly carrying a gun. I can see that going well.

As to you're question woody, one of the uses for the Malheur Refuge is to manage habitat and protect the large variety of migratory birds. They do allow hunting at certain times of the year, depending on the status and population numbers of the birds in question. So they do allow guns there, when it's hunting season for a particular bird species. By the way, Theodore Roosevelt established the reserve in 1908 and his specific reason for creating it was to protect migratory birds and their habitat. Before it was established, migratory birds were taken almost to the point of extinction by plume hunters, in other words, hunters were killing millions of birds just for their feathers to use in women's hats and stoles. On top of that, Malheur Lake was almost completely drained of water due do irrigation projects and livestock operations long before Teddy created the refuge and salvaged the place from private profit and desecration.

Posted: **Tue Feb 09, 2016 3:25 pm**

woodchip wrote:posturing before a cop shows up

Posted: **Tue Feb 09, 2016 5:09 pm**

If there is reliable testimony to support it (video, multiple accounts stating the same thing), it can be used as evidence.

Posted: **Tue Feb 09, 2016 5:24 pm**

callmeslick wrote:
Spidey wrote:Just exactly what are the maintenance costs of grass and scrub brush lands anyway, and what kind of maintenance is actually involved?
probably pretty low, spidey. I'd guess that at Malheur, at least half the costs are around upkeep and maintenence of the few roads and the visitor center. Most of the rest is fire spotting and supression, maintenence of fencing and the like.

This is actually a bigger job than most people realize. I did some of this work for a couple years in college. There is a whole aspect of the park system based around inventory of fawn and flora, creating natural erosion barriers, controlled burning, water and soil testing, plus a whole lot of digging in the dirt. It's a huge management undertaking and requires dedicated manpower. It's not just sitting back and saying "oh, there is some wilderness out there." People seem to forget that humans have upset the ecosystem quite a bit. Invasive plant and animal species need to be constantly monitored and controlled to keep parks "natural." Things like cattle grazing upset this further. It's kind of a big deal what these goofballs have been doing.

EDIT: For example, invasive plant species and parasites can be carried from one location to another in cattle dung.

Posted: **Tue Feb 09, 2016 7:02 pm**

to reinforce what vision said -- if you ever worked or know anyone who worked a farm, you'll have an idea of just how much is required to keep it looking like what it does in the brochures.

Posted: **Wed Feb 10, 2016 4:28 pm**

Spidey wrote:
woodchip wrote:posturing before a cop shows up

What the hell difference does that make? Anyone who does an illegal act and arms themselves while doing that act, then boasts they won't go quietly if the authorities try to arrest them is nothing more than a veiled threat that no cop worth their salt could ignore.

Posted: **Wed Feb 10, 2016 4:38 pm**

Well, there is a technical difference, but more important a legal difference.

Posted: **Wed Feb 10, 2016 4:38 pm**

Enlighten me.

Posted: **Wed Feb 10, 2016 4:41 pm**

Actions are the important thing when confronting police, not a bunch of bluster you are spouting to your friends.

Posted: **Wed Feb 10, 2016 5:15 pm**

Spidey wrote:Actions are the important thing when confronting police, not a bunch of bluster you are spouting to your friends.

Posturing is what you say beforehand. you're probably thinking of 'gesturing'.

Posted: **Wed Feb 10, 2016 6:22 pm**

Posturing is trying to impress someone, or convince them you are bigger or more important than you really are.

Posted: **Wed Feb 10, 2016 10:06 pm**

Spidey wrote:Actions are the important thing when confronting police, not a bunch of bluster you are spouting to your friends.

Maybe woodchip did, but somehow I don't think even he would make that bluster in front of the actual police if he was doing something illegal and they wanted to arrest him, unless he had a death wish perhaps.

Bundy and crew, however, didn't bluster to their friends. They blustered in front of a bunch of reporters while holding semi-automatic, or even automatic weapons and told those reporters that they were taking over the facility for "the people", and that would not leave until their demands were met and that they would defend themselves if the authorities tried to remove them. That sounds like a threat of violence to me and you can be sure the authorities think the same thing, or else they would have gone in there weeks ago and removed the bastards.

Posted: **Thu Feb 11, 2016 6:38 am**

well, I see with my morning coffee that old Clive showed up to Oregon and got himself arrested.

Posted: **Thu Feb 11, 2016 7:39 am**

And the rest are peaceably giving up.

Posted: **Thu Feb 11, 2016 7:44 am**

woodchip wrote:And the rest are peaceably giving up.

hadn't read where they've done so, yet, but they are currently surrounded by the FBI, so it would be the smarter choice.

Posted: **Thu Feb 11, 2016 7:55 am**

At least it is ending better than Waco did.

Posted: **Thu Feb 11, 2016 12:41 pm**

woodchip wrote:And the rest are peaceably giving up.

Three have turned themselves over to the authorities, but there is still one holdout, who is claiming he's suicidal. I'm guessing he's going to attempt a suicide by cop so he can become a martyr. We'll see. The FBI and State police had pretty much locked these guys in, with the phone being their only outside access. Why Franklin Graham got involved with negotiations for the surrender of a bunch of law-breaking Mormons at the end of this whole thing beats me. Tsk, tsk about ol' Cliven. It was about time he was arrested.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-orego ... SKCN0VK05F

Posted: **Thu Feb 11, 2016 3:58 pm**

Damn law breaking nigg....um...Mormons.

Posted: **Thu Feb 11, 2016 4:50 pm**

Spidey, Mormons choose to join and worship whatever craziness they like in their cult, oops, I mean religion. Blacks do not choose to be black skinned. I don't harbor any hatred or disgust for someone's immutable trait nor do I denigrate them for it. I can however, have an opinion about someone's choice and practice of a religion. I may not be able to legally discriminate against them for their beliefs, but I can still call them wackos or militants when they break the law.

Posted: **Thu Feb 11, 2016 5:45 pm**

Spidey wrote:Posturing is trying to impress someone, or convince them you are bigger or more important than you really are.

That's what I said.

Posted: **Thu Feb 11, 2016 6:02 pm**

Yes, but in doing so you are implicating all Mormons, because your comments aren't something inherent to Mormons.

I do believe there is an “ism” for that.

Posted: **Thu Feb 11, 2016 9:20 pm**

How in the all-loving-★■◆● did did you come to that conclusion? In no way did I ever implicate any one group. You must have had a serious lapse of judgement and common sense to come even remotely close to that.

Posted: **Fri Feb 12, 2016 7:56 am**

Oops, I was talking to tc.

See Ferno I have you on ignore, so if I log in, your posts kinda disappear, only when I read the forum without logging in do I see your posts.

Must remember to quote.

Posted: **Fri Feb 12, 2016 1:55 pm**

Spidey wrote:Yes, but in doing so you are implicating all Mormons, because your comments aren't something inherent to Mormons.

I do believe there is an “ism” for that.

True. I have a blanket issue with Mormons because of a little family estate issue that's going to involve my step-brother and his wife, who are devout Mormons and don't really see me or my sister as part of their family because us two are only related by marriage to our dad, not by blood. Let's just say that if you ever have to deal with an estate and some of your relatives are Mormon and you're not, it ain't going to be pretty.

Posted: **Fri Feb 12, 2016 3:06 pm**

That sucks.

Posted: **Fri Feb 12, 2016 5:11 pm**

Spidey wrote:Oops, I was talking to tc.

See Ferno I have you on ignore, so if I log in, your posts kinda disappear, only when I read the forum without logging in do I see your posts.

Must remember to quote.

[removed] yes, you should remember to quote.

Posted: **Sat Feb 13, 2016 4:28 pm**

Spidey wrote:That sucks.

Coming from you Spidey, thanks.

Posted: **Sun Feb 14, 2016 7:11 am**

tunnelcat wrote:
Spidey wrote:Yes, but in doing so you are implicating all Mormons, because your comments aren't something inherent to Mormons.

I do believe there is an “ism” for that.
True. I have a blanket issue with Mormons because of a little family estate issue that's going to involve my step-brother and his wife, who are devout Mormons and don't really see me or my sister as part of their family because us two are only related by marriage to our dad, not by blood. Let's just say that if you ever have to deal with an estate and some of your relatives are Mormon and you're not, it ain't going to be pretty.

To me being family has nothing to do with blood. If your brother cannot see that, he is the poorer for it.

Posted: **Mon Feb 15, 2016 3:35 pm**

woody, he's my step-brother and he's the blood son of my step-father. Mormons believe in keeping money in the family. Technically, I'm not blood family to my step-father and I'm definitely not Mormon. You can now see my difficulty with how this is going to play out as time goes on. I can see the writing on the wall the way my step-brother is playing favorite with my step-father and I'm going to get screwed.

Posted: **Tue Feb 16, 2016 7:24 am**

Where does your mother fit in all this? Was there a will? You don't have to answer if this makes you feel uncomfortable.

Posted: **Tue Feb 16, 2016 10:49 am**

She's dead, years ago from lung cancer. She was too trusting of her husband, and we both warned her to legally protect herself before she passed away and she wussed out on that advice, and now she, and her daughters, are getting screwed after her death. My step-father has already given away more of his money to his side of the family. We know because he's been distributing to his kids funds he's been receiving since he started drawing down his IRA a few years ago. We also suspect his old ex, who lives near him, is scrounging around for money under the guise of supplying him some companionship too, especially since her son, my step-brother, has more to gain from getting them back together. My mother's will was pretty much null and void once she died because of the trust my step-father (a lawyer) had already set up, so I guess he really didn't love her as much as she thought. However, be assured that both my sister and I have copies of her original will. If need be upon his death, we'll go to court. It would cost us money, but the trouble we would cause delaying the disposition of his estate would be priceless.

Posted: **Tue Feb 16, 2016 11:25 am**

it is tales like the above which make me realize that while I'm dealing with a complex mess requiring a few months of multi-tasking, being executor for a very small and untangled family makes estate settlement a lot less contentious.

Posted: **Tue Feb 16, 2016 2:52 pm**

You're damn lucky. Divorces and remarriages royally mess things up for the kids in more ways than one. What really frosts me is that my mother knew this kind of crap might happen, so she requested that my step-dad make me executor. He originally balked, but she persisted and got him to do it. A fat lot of good that did. I also knew this was eventually going to end up as a massive clusterf**k for my sister and I because my mother was too wimpy to stand up and cast her desires in legal stone. A few years after she passed away, he dumped me in favor of my half-brother getting the job. Now he's giving more money to his ex's kids and to top things off, one of those kids has declared bankruptcy and will probably come sniffing around for a bailout from my step-father. I have no quarrel with my brother and he's a nice sibling whom I trust and like. But he's clueless and doesn't see what's happening between his father and his mother's 2 girls when it comes to the future of the estate distribution. I don't need the money, but my sister could really use it. Plus, it's the principle of the thing.

Posted: **Tue Feb 16, 2016 7:04 pm**

This is why I'm requesting a Viking funeral. Load me and all my ★■◆● in a boat and toss in a torch, so that there's nothing left for my (theoretical) heirs to squabble over.

Posted: **Tue Feb 16, 2016 7:52 pm**

tunnelcat wrote:Mormons believe in keeping money in the family

More accurately, in keeping it in the religion. You're actually required to be able to document your 10% giving in order to be eligible for the ceremonies that are required to let you get into the highest level of heaven (the "celestial kingdom", where you go to practice celestial polygamy and create enough spirit babies to populate your own planet where you get to be a god.)

Posted: **Wed Feb 17, 2016 8:50 am**

Sounds like more fun than the heaven I have heard of in the Abraham religions.

Posted: **Wed Feb 17, 2016 8:53 am**

Top Gun wrote:This is why I'm requesting a Viking funeral. Load me and all my ★■◆● in a boat and toss in a torch, so that there's nothing left for my (theoretical) heirs to squabble over.

Don’t worry…Obama will make sure you don’t have anything left when you pass on anyway, including the boat.

Sorry…just couldn’t resist.

Posted: **Wed Feb 17, 2016 9:13 am**

well, it is heartening to see the Bundy clan has finally located a government facility which they are free to occupy.....for 15 to 30 years, perhaps.

Posted: **Wed Feb 17, 2016 5:53 pm**

Lothar wrote:
tunnelcat wrote:Mormons believe in keeping money in the family
More accurately, in keeping it in the religion. You're actually required to be able to document your 10% giving in order to be eligible for the ceremonies that are required to let you get into the highest level of heaven (the "celestial kingdom", where you go to practice celestial polygamy and create enough spirit babies to populate your own planet where you get to be a god.)

Hmmm, celestial polygamy. Sounds like the Mormons have the same desires that Muslims have when they get to heaven, lots and lots of virgin nookie. What's in it for the females when they get to heaven? Make loads of spirit babies? What? We can't escape having to raise children again in heaven?

Back to the topic. It seems that the state trooper (not the FBI) who shot Finicum has been the target of death threats, so the Oregon legislature is trying to pass a bill to shield his name, at least at the behest of a judge, from becoming public. Nice guys these militia morons. They're now sounding like angry black men out for revenge.

http://www.opb.org/news/series/burns-or ... -name-law/

Posted: **Wed Feb 17, 2016 6:12 pm**

tunnelcat wrote:What? We can't escape having to raise children again in heaven?

That's an interesting sentiment. Isn't raising children a valuable and honorable calling?

(I think you reflect a general sentiment that I notice in our culture.)

DescentBB

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