DescentBB

Cuda68 wrote:A list of international terrorist organizations considered by the U.S. State Department to be active during the last five years.


http://www.cdi.org/terrorism/terrorist-groups.cfm

The long awaited response. There's no graphic because I got really tired of playing with it. Hopefully the percentage figures will enable y'all to visualize the information.


World's Muslim Population
1,570,000,000

Population of United States of America
307,000,000

Muslim Americans
18,000,000

Total estimated strength of all Islamic terrorist organizations worldwide
44,100

(This amounts to approximately 0.000028%* of the world's Muslim population.)

(Let us make an assumption for the sake of comparison: every estimated member of every Islamic terrorist organization comes to the United States for a terrorism convention. They would number approximately 0.24%* of the Muslim-American population of the United States.)

*Unless my math is absolutely terrible.

Breakdown of terrorist strength by group name:

Al Qaeda
10,000

Armed Islamic Group
3,000

The Salafist Group for Call and Combat
3,000

Egyptian Islamic Jihad
300

Al-Gama'a al-Islamiyya
3,000

Al-Ummah
Unknown Strength

Abu Nidal
300

Mujahedin-e Khalq Organization
3,000

Palestine Liberation Front
Unknown Strength

Asbat al-Ansar
300

Hezbollah
4,000

Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigade
Unknown Strength

Democratic Front for the Liberation of Palestine
500

HAMAS
Unknown Strength, 10,000 "supporters"

The Palestine Islamic Jihad
Unknown Strength

Harakat ul-Ansar
3,000

Harakat ul-Mujahidin
3,000

Jaish-e-Mohammed
300

Lashkar-e-Tayyiba
300

Abu Sayyaf Group
3,000

Qibla
300

Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine
800

Jamaat ul-Fuqra
Unknown Strength

Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan
3,000

Heh, I’m thinking the fact that there are about 2 dozen terrorist groups listed there…that it's not doing a great service to your argument.

I wouldn't be surprised by a comparable amount of Christian militia groups just within the USA it's self. The number of groups is inconsequential when the numbers within them are small.

Yep, but how many \"christian\" militia have attacked or killed others in the past year?

5 people? 10?

You probably have more fingers and toes than their are American \"christian militia\" casualties for the past year.

Muslim terrorist casualties for a year? Try a few hundred if not multiples of 100.

There is a /SLIGHT/ disparity in the amount of violence isn't there?

In fact, you want numbers?

Monthly Jihad Report
September, 2010
Jihad Attacks:

172

Countries:

23

Religions:

5

Dead Bodies:

703

Critically Injured:

1454

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

If you had read the thread, you would notice around page 4 or 5 that I addressed the issue of deaths caused by Islam versus deaths caused by other religions.

ThunderBunny wrote:In fact, you want numbers?

Monthly Jihad Report
September, 2010
Jihad Attacks:

172

Countries:

23

Religions:

5

Dead Bodies:

703

Critically Injured:

1454

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

Hrm....

null0010 wrote:If you had read the thread, you would notice around page 4 or 5 that I addressed the issue of deaths caused by Islam versus deaths caused by other religions.

Pwned by literacy.

What is the relevance of the ratio of terrorist per capita? When it is the most deadly faction, by far, then it is the most deadly! And that is why it creates the most concern....period.

Will Robinson wrote:What is the relevance of the ratio of terrorist per capita? When it is the most deadly faction, by far, then it is the most deadly! And deserves the most concern....period.

Except... it is not the "most deadly" by any possible measure, as I have shown, repeatedly. Move the goalposts more, please.

null0010 wrote:

Will Robinson wrote:What is the relevance of the ratio of terrorist per capita? When it is the most deadly faction, by far, then it is the most deadly! And deserves the most concern....period.

Except... it is not the "most deadly" by any possible measure, as I have shown, repeatedly. Move the goalposts more, please.

You claim to have shown that but it's not showing up out here in reality-ville.

I guess it wouldn't if you close your eyes, plug your ears and as loud as you can go LALALALALALALALALALA

Lol…this from Captain KneeJerk.

Spidey wrote:Lol…this from Captain KneeJerk.

Translation: I cannot disprove your facts, therefore I will sling mud.

Mjolnir wrote:

Spidey wrote:Lol…this from Captain KneeJerk.

Translation: I cannot disprove your facts, therefore I will sling mud.

Lol…Translation: I don’t know what the hell he meant, so I just threw something out there.

PS…no “facts” to be found around here.

Spidey wrote:PS…no “facts” to be found around here.

...

Plenty of facts showing the ratio of terrorist Muslims among the total group of Muslims is lower than a similar accounting of other smaller religious groups. And that is the red herring he wants us to focus on.

Unfortunately for him the point isn't the ratio within the group, it is the fact that the Muslim group spawns more terrorists than the other groups!
The group that racks up the most terrorist kills is the biggest problem and they have been at it literally from the beginning of their existence as a group with little to no change in their methods!!
The Christians by comparison haven't launched a crusade in centuries yet null thinks a Timothy Mcviegh here and an Erik Rudolf there makes them equal or greater threats.

bin Ladin thinks banking and bikini's makes the infidels an equal threat...he's wrong too.

Will Robinson wrote:Plenty of facts showing the ratio of terrorist Muslims among the total group of Muslims is lower than a similar accounting of other smaller religious groups.

So there aren't a lot of Muslim terrorists...

Will Robinson wrote:Unfortunately for him the point isn't the ratio within the group, it is the fact that the Muslim group spawns more terrorists than the other groups!

but there are? I'm pretty sure that webpage linked a page back indicates that communism and/or ethnic conflict are the most popular terrorist generators.

Columbia alone has more than 26,000 estimated terrorists dedicated to destroying the government there in the name of Marxist thought.

null0010 wrote:

Will Robinson wrote:Plenty of facts showing the ratio of terrorist Muslims among the total group of Muslims is lower than a similar accounting of other smaller religious groups.

So there aren't a lot of Muslim terrorists...

No, you were pointing to the relatively small number of Islamic terrorists compared to the total number of Muslims.
I pointed out that just because the Islamic terrorist is a relatively small sample of all people who practice Islam doesn't make the Islamic terrorists less of a threat than they are. They are the most deadly force of terrorists that we face today and the Muslim culture in numerous countries has been keeping that threat boiling over for close to 2000 years!

null0010 wrote:

Will Robinson wrote:Unfortunately for him the point isn't the ratio within the group, it is the fact that the Muslim group spawns more terrorists than the other groups!

but there are? I'm pretty sure that webpage linked a page back indicates that communism and/or ethnic conflict are the most popular terrorist generators.

Columbia alone has more than 26,000 estimated terrorists dedicated to destroying the government there in the name of Marxist thought.

The original topic is:

The religion of peace is and has always been on the march.

A bunch of marxists in Colombia fighting their own government isn't quite the same thing since they are not a religious group and they are not exporting their attacks upon us. I'm pretty sure you tried this earlier in the thread and we explained it to you then as well.
And you accuse me of moving the goal posts?!?

I'm not moving the goalposts, I'm trying to work with the ones you've set up. You said:

Will Robinson wrote:Unfortunately for him the point isn't the ratio within the group, it is the fact that the Muslim group spawns more terrorists than the other groups!

and I responded to it.

null0010 wrote:I'm not moving the goalposts, I'm trying to work with the ones you've set up. You said:

Will Robinson wrote:Unfortunately for him the point isn't the ratio within the group, it is the fact that the Muslim group spawns more terrorists than the other groups!

and I responded to it.

Yes you responded, however poorly.
I was still talking within the context of the original topic. You had to expand the parameters to include Marxist rebels who are quite content to keep it in their own backyard etc. to try and come up with something that rivals the Islamic terrorist attacks that have been killing people all around the globe. A faction that unlike the Marxist rebels down in that little jungle have grand aspirations to either kill or convert everyone in their path.
Just tiny difference which is why TB didn't start a thread on south american insurgents and how they can adopt communist clothes to get free guns from Castro...

When the little banana republic-wanna-be's get around to dropping a couple thousand of my fellow citizens here in my backyard they will hit my radar screen as well. Until then they are all yours.

I love your strict adherence to the law of proximity. It's touching, really.

null0010 wrote:I love your strict adherence to the law of proximity. It's touching, really.

I suppose you lock your doors here in the U.S. to keep out the burglars working in Paris because proximity doesn't factor into your security considerations.

It's a journalism concept that states viewers care more about tragedy if it \"affects\" them. A tragedy that hurts Americans will matter more to your typical American than a Colombian tragedy.

null0010 wrote:It's a journalism concept that states viewers care more about tragedy if it "affects" them. A tragedy that hurts Americans will matter more to your typical American than a Colombian tragedy.

Ahh, I'd never heard it called that before so I was taking it literally.
Well, long before a journalist decided to give it a catch phrase name as if he discovered something new that phenomena was well known as human nature. As in, people flying planes into buildings full of my fellow americans is both a predictable act once you find out they were Islamo-fascists, and much more of a threat for us to be concerned with than guerrillas fighting their own government in a different hemisphere.

So proximity rule or common sense or human nature, they all seem to work with the assertion that the Islamo-fascist terrorists are a greater threat than the examples you have given. And if that touches you then embrace it like the rush of an epiphany and maybe you'll finally get it.

But, according to the website you linked, almost all Middle Eastern terror attacks occur in the Middle East. Almost all Columbian terror attacks occur in Columbia.

I'm not getting the difference. People are dying in both places.

null0010 wrote:But, according to the website you linked, almost all Middle Eastern terror attacks occur in the Middle East. Almost all Columbian terror attacks occur in Columbia.

I'm not getting the difference. People are dying in both places.

I don't believe I linked that web site but that is besides the point.
I also don't believe you don't get the difference because I've already spelled it out numerous times.

If you want you could do a Google search for the number of non-Muslims murdered/kidnapped by Islamic radicals...the number of attacks carried out in countries other than the home country of the attacker.... the number of attacks carried out in the name of their imaginary friend in the sky...the number of attacks carried out by mandate of their religious leaders and compare that to the same search for those type of acts committed by Columbian rebels.
You will see a difference and hopefully consider all the why, what and where pertaining to these attacks.

You have abandoned the context of the original post to catalogue dangerous groups in general, from history, etc.

No one said that Muslims kill more per year than Pol Pot or something like that. We find the current threat by the Islamo-nutbags to be much more of an eminent threat than the potential killing power of any other terrorist type faction. I think recent history and the total history of the Islamic threat proves that perception to be valid.

You obviously feel like we shouldn't make that distinction. I don't know why you feel that way and I can't think of any good reason for why you do.

null0010 wrote:almost all Middle Eastern terror attacks occur in the Middle East. Almost all Columbian terror attacks occur in Columbia.

I'm not getting the difference. People are dying in both places.

Almost all European terror attacks happen in Europe. Almost all Indian terror attacks happen in India. Almost all Britain terror attacks happen in Britain. Almost all these terror attacks were done by Muslims radicals.

Will Robinson wrote:

You obviously feel like we shouldn't make that distinction. I don't know why you feel that way and I can't think of any good reason for why you do.

Perhaps Null has a Juan Williams syndrome, fearing if he stated his hidden fears, someone would tell his friends and face certain ostracization from his peer group.

I do have to admit that there is a point hidden in the Islamophobia here, that -right now- Islam is indeed a... I guess the best word would be a catalyst for violence. The occupation thread posted a couple days ago is more of a root cause for all this to take effect.

Now that's not to go along with the idea that a omg watch every Muslim and they're all a bunch of suicide bombers, it simply ties in with what's already known and available to us... that Islam, as yet another man made religion, is some 200 years behind Christianity(as an example). Christianity had much the same catalyst effect not too long ago but it was eventually grown out of (except for in Africa, where Christians started a giant ethnic cleansing, GG).

So I present to you that, obviously, religion is the problem and the human brains susceptibility to fantastical ideas.

Mjolnir wrote:Islam, as yet another man made religion, is some 200 years behind Christianity(as an example). Christianity had much the same catalyst effect not too long ago but it was eventually grown out of (except for in Africa, where Christians started a giant ethnic cleansing, GG).

Suggesting that is it local culture and not the religion that is at fault for this nonsense. I don't see a lot of Indonesian or European Muslims blowing themselves up.

null0010 wrote:

Mjolnir wrote:Islam, as yet another man made religion, is some 200 years behind Christianity(as an example). Christianity had much the same catalyst effect not too long ago but it was eventually grown out of (except for in Africa, where Christians started a giant ethnic cleansing, GG).

Suggesting that is it local culture and not the religion that is at fault for this nonsense. I don't see a lot of Indonesian or European Muslims blowing themselves up.

No, they just try to break into a cartoonists apartment while caring for his granddaughter with an axe and the intent to murder them because of a bad cartoon.

Mjolnir wrote:

null0010 wrote:

Mjolnir wrote:Islam, as yet another man made religion, is some 200 years behind Christianity(as an example). Christianity had much the same catalyst effect not too long ago but it was eventually grown out of (except for in Africa, where Christians started a giant ethnic cleansing, GG).

Suggesting that is it local culture and not the religion that is at fault for this nonsense. I don't see a lot of Indonesian or European Muslims blowing themselves up.

No, they just try to break into a cartoonists apartment while caring for his granddaughter with an axe and the intent to murder them because of a bad cartoon.

Isolated incident.

That exact incident, but he's had a price on his head and many attempts on his life due to his cartoon... so not so isolated IMO. It mirrors things like Salman Rushdie.

Here's the problem I find with the Islam just needs to mature argument. Christianity has definitely had it's share of violence, but the problem with that is that it was a definite break from what the original message of Christ was, which was to forgive and love those that hate you. So just because people called themselves Christians, they were not actually practicing Christianity, because those acts were obviously not Christian.
On the other hand, Islam is a very uncompromising religion, where intolerance and the eradication of unbelievers is encouraged. For islam to mature, it will have to change it's core beliefs.

The problem with that assertion is that in many places and for many people (I would say the majority of Muslims*, in fact), the core beliefs have changed. Do you see the majority of the 18 million Muslims in the United States gallivanting around the desert areas of the country playing Warlord Prophet? No. Most of them act like any other American, with the exception that some of them cover their hair and/or face. I feel like what that statement is really saying is \"Muslims will be acceptable when they are not Muslims,\" or maybe \"Muslims will be acceptable when they have a new holy book.\"

*About 20% of Muslims live in Arab countries

According to the Qur'an: \"Muhammad is the Apostle of Allah. Those who follow him are merciful to one another, but ruthless to unbelievers\" Surah 48:29. \"Kill the Mushrikun (unbelievers) wherever you find them, and capture them and besiege them, and lie in wait for them in each and every ambush...\" Surah 9:5

Surah 47:4 says:Therefore, WHEN YOU MEET THE UNBELIEVERS, SMITE AT THEIR NECKS; At length, when ye have thoroughly subdued them, bind a bond firmly (on them): thereafter (is the time for) either generosity or ransom: Until the war lays down its burdens. Thus (are ye commanded): but if it had been Allah's Will, He could certainly have exacted retribution from them (Himself); but (He lets you fight) in order to test you, some with others. But those who are slain in the Way of Allah,- He will never let their deeds be lost.

These people you talk about are not true Muslims then. True muslims believe in the koran and that Muhammad is the Apostle of Allah. As a test, just go and ask any of these muslims you know personally if they believe that Muhammad is the prophet of God. if they say yes, that they believe he speaks the very words of God, then go and read what Muhammad said. Then you will know exactly what they believe. If they say no, then it's moot because they are not really muslims.

Okay. So basically when you said

flip wrote:For islam to mature, it will have to change it's core beliefs.

you really meant that you want all Muslims to stop being Muslims, because true Muslims are murderous savages?

No what i said was:

On the other hand, Islam is a very uncompromising religion, where intolerance and the eradication of unbelievers is encouraged. For islam to mature, it will have to change it's core beliefs.

How can you be a muslim and not believe what the Koran says? My assertion is that the core beliefs of Islam is violent and intolerant, unlike Christianity. For Islam to mature, as that argument goes, the text will have to change.

Have you ever read the Bible?

Deuteronomy 20:10-17 wrote:When you march up to attack a city, make its people an offer of peace. If they accept and open their gates, all the people in it shall be subject to forced labor and shall work for you. If they refuse to make peace and they engage you in battle, lay siege to that city. When the Lord your God delivers it into your hand, put to the sword all the men in it. As for the women, the children, the livestock and everything else in the city, you may take these as plunder for yourselves. ... This is how you are to treat all the cities that are at a distance from you and do not belong to the nations nearby.

However, in the cities of the nations the Lord your God is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes. Completely destroy them—the Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites—as the Lord your God has commanded you.

Let me say it like this. When Christians murder and burn people at the stake, they are going against what their bible tells them.

When Muslims murder and kill unbelievers they are doing exactly what their bible tells them.

Is this really that hard to grasp?