DescentBB

When it comes to the Mexicans going up and down the west coast from Mexico through Cali, I just dont see the problem. They have been doing this since before Spain had Cali and we bought it from Spain and threw up borders and put our hand out for money in order to cross over. Purchase a passport, purchase a visa. From Mexico to Northern Cali was all spanish speaking untill 150 years ago, Geeze when are you people gonna break out a history book and read a little. %90 of all the Mexicans I have met where really good people and very laid back. There culture is all about honer and respect. When we dis-repect them they are a little quick to come out with the knives and guns, but hey we need to learn how to be a little nicer in our attitudes towards there culture and not so condecending. Like the American Indian - they where here first and the only jobs they qualify for is cleaning our toiletts and picking grapes. We should be organizing them into a union to insure proper wages are paid so other wages are not driven down, grant them temporary work visa's so we can get tax dollars out of them and give them health bennies for what they do. And yet alot of people on this board think we should pull out of Iraq and how wrong it was for us to go there in the first place when Saddam was preaching death to all Americans and bragging on his support of terrorists, and paying the familys of suicide bombers for there deeds - How can we justify chasing out Mexicans with a minute man project for keeping our butts wiped - WTF??

OK - I feel much better now - K bye bye

Fusion Pimp wrote:Yeah, let's embrace folks who, since the moment they set foot on U.S soil, commited an illegal act.

Please note, I am WITH you on ensuring that everyone who comes over is actually a legal citizen. And I'm totally opposed to the amnesty idea. Send everyone who came over illegally back across the border.

I AM in favor of letting more people in. We want to spread democracy so bad we are willing to go to war in countries that don't have any clue what democracy is or how it works. But here are millions of people who would like to try democracy and are begging to come over and live in our system. Fine, let them in, just as long as they are willing to commit to be CITIZENS, subject to the rules, taxes, and responsibilities of a citizen.

Fusion Pimp wrote:Bring your culture and once you become a citizen I support your right to live your life as you wish- but, don't try to change mine.

I think we are in agreement here. They will change the culture, that doesn't mean you have to change with it.

Like I said, I'm from Texas, a big part of my culture IS Mexican. Change that and we wouldn't be Texas any more.

Lets drop Mexico out of this and bring it down to just within the US. Quite frankly, I don't LIKE the culture of Louisiana very much. Now then, since Katrina, we've had a huge influx of displaced folks from Louisiana coming in to Texas. A LOT of them decided to stay. (After all, they didn't really have anything to go back to). Is this going to affect the culture here? You're darn tootin it will. But you aren't going to see me out in the streets protesting it or trying to change it. Culture is a fluid thing, a river, not firm ground. The culture of Texas today is NOT the culture of Texas in the 1950's, which was not the culture of Texas in the 1900's, and so on.

I will stand up for what I think is right, I will object if we start changing our laws in ways that are wrong. But I won't try and kick the Louisianans out just because we start playing more jazz music instead of country and western, or because more Cajun restaurants pop up, or because someone says to me: "hey, go up da stree to da sto an by some onyon" instead of "I told allayall to mosey down to the walmart and russle up some grub!".

Culture changes, especially in the US, and any attempt to defend it or keep it static is certain to fail. Culture is not law, and culture needs to come from legal citizens who are PART of our system. But if they are willing to come in and be fully a part of the system, then they WILL affect our culture, just like every other group of immigrants has done throughout our history, and even like every generation has.

Well, I certainly don't hold the same sort of reluctance in letting them into this country, doesn't seem like it's a real big deal right now in the current dealings of this world. It should be issue # 456 yet it's # 1 and I don't understand that. I think it's safe to assume that cell phones cause more insurance-related costs than Mexican drivers do. Pharmaceutical nazis drive up prices, not a hospital that has to take care of someone that can't foot the bill.

Barry, if you went to Germany, would you force them to speak English? I'm sure you would try to speak German, but if you found out that the bartender or store owner spoke OK English you'd probably switch to that. Can't get mad at someone for wanting to speak their native tongue, you know how hard it is to learn English, our language has no base, it has no functioning rules, no set up. Most, not all, languages follow strict patterns, Spanish, German, French, you can get away with knowing a little bit and rumbling.

How can we justify chasing out Mexicans with a minute man project for keeping our butts wiped - WTF?

\"Immigrant\" and \"illegal immigrant\" mean completely different things.

\"Violent crime\" is not synonymous with \"violence,\" which is necessary to STOP violent crimes, but the Orwellian newspeak deliberately mixes the meanings. \"Driver\" and \"drunk driver\" also have different meanings.

So please, if you chose to be part of the conversation, do us all a favor and make sure you can identify that little buzz word that changes the entire premise of the post(s).

Thank you.

There's one reason I'm opposed to a wholesale deportation of illegal immigrants: economics.

What are the estimates, 10 million illegal immigrants? Let's do a conservative estimate and say each illegal immigrant works 40 hours a week at $8 an hour. That's $16,640 per year in income, or $166 billion a year in income generated by illegal immigrants.

So we kick all 10 million out. Our GDP instantly goes down by $166 billion. Then of course these people can't spend money because they are no longer here. GDP goes down further. It keeps going down as manufacturers respond to the lowered demand and cut back production, further reducing investment and wages paid out. If we estimate that each illegal immigrant spends 50 cents of every dollar made (a ridiculous assumption; Americans spend ~90 cents on the dollar) then when all is said and done our GDP will be lowered by 166 billion / 1 - 0.5 = $332 billion. That's an incredibly low estimate.

Now, we do have to factor in things like healthcare expenses. The government pays for those types of services, as well as education and things like that. Benefit: government doesn't pay those anymore. Bad: That money doesn't get spent. GDP declines further.

Take education for example. The Department of Education's 2004 budget for elementary and high-school education was 55 billion dollars. If we estimate that one in six of those illegal immigrants is a child (we're deporting entire families) then that means in a worst-case scenario $9 billion need no longer be spent. Obviouly the number isn't going to be that high, so let's cut it in half. $4.5 billion. A drop in the bucket, but it entails layoffs and cutbacks in programs such as ESL which are funded through the Department of Education. Those people lose their jobs and are frictionally unemployed from some period of time.

See where this is going? And this is just the tip of the iceberg. It's a MUCH farther-reaching issue than simply \"they didn't come here legally, so let's kick them out.\" If we were to kick 10 million people out of this country, every single American will feel the crunch as the economy plunges into a (perhaps mild, perhaps severe) recession. Not the thing we want to do to ourselves right now.

Birdseye, I'm paging you. Back me up on this. Kicking out illegals outright is NOT a good idea, no matter how just it may be/seem. This is the rationale behind the amnesty program: make it more attractive to live legally on the radar.

Fusion pimp wrote:

And in the end, They become part of us, and Our culture becomes stronger, richer, and more interesting.

You're backward- in the current state of affairs, we are becoming part of them. If they should bring their culture as you suggest, but they refuse to assimilate, how are they becoming part of us?

So just what kind of assimilation are you mandating here? Strictly legal assimilation? Or mandatory cultural assimilation as well?

I bet for $20 a day you could hire an illegal to keep up the minute man job for you once the summer heat hits. Just another job that no American wants.

<3

OMG ROFL...

lol @ Goob
*
On a serious note:
Assimilation isn't necessarily just some xenophobic knee jerk reaction to people who don't look like we do.
The way our system was set up was to filter the immigrants into the country without having a horde of one culture move in and stay foriegn.
We give away green cards every year in a lottery and if your country already has a high ratio of immigration flowing into our country then your country doesn't recieve any free passes (green cards to give to people wanting to move here to work).
The reason is, we want people to join us in our way of life not flood us with the way of life they are trying to escape!
Face it, if mexico was full of great leaders they wouldn't be fleeing the place! It's not like they have no resources down there.

I see a border between america and mexico and a country that is putting it's armed soldiers on the border to stop people from crossing freely...they say you must have at least $1000 in your possesion/bank to stay there...you can't own property or work there, you can't get a drivers license, you pay through the nose for insurance, you can't get government education, housing, food assistance, shelter or medical treatment etc. etc. You can only come and spend money then leave...

And that government is calling our government racist
because we make it slightly difficult for their fleeing masses to get all those things free of charge that we citizens here provide them!!!

The f@#$king illegals get in state tuition rates where our children have to pay out of state rates at state universities for crying out loud!!! At least our kids live in the country legally (albeit out of state)the illegals don't even live in the country legally!
So bite me Vincente Fox and all you La Raza biotches!

We deserve to be able to reform our border crossing controls without having two faced europeans and mexicans tell us we are being bastards! Try to pull the same stuff in their country and see what it gets you!

It's as if I woke up in Bizzaro World only there is no Superman to help us out, just dumbassed politicians who don't give a crap about the mess they make.

PS: These comments are brought to you by a guy who just a year ago was saying build a fence but open the gate so they can come in with meager identification procedures. Now I'm changing my tune. Now I say build the fence and lock the gate. After hearing how they are going to take our country and turn it into mexico I say come get some if you can biotch!
My hats off to Barry for making a stand.

http://radio.indymedia.org/news/2005/08/6263.php

Good listen.

http://sandiego.indymedia.org/en/2005/07/110168.shtml

A little too quick with the Racism words from the young reporters here... but valid points of view from both sides are represented in the comments.

Anti immigrant policies worked for France
http://sandiego.indymedia.org/en/border/archive.shtml

I think border patrolling should be left to Border Guards, not private citizens. And if you \"catch\" an illegal alien and hold them at gunpoint... its illegal and you will be prosecuted.

Oh and the real culprits of the flood of illegal workers isn't just the laws its the Corporations;
http://sandiego.indymedia.org/en/2006/04/115292.shtml

Regardless stay safe so we can dodge your fusion again.

Citizen's arrest is still legal.

Testiculese wrote:Citizen's arrest is still legal.

Now if I arrest a republican because I think he's cheating on his taxes..or a priest because I think he's looking a little too lustfully at a picture in the J.C. Penny's childrens clothing catalog then yea, you might have a point.

But since the sherriffs departments across the country tell us they are told by the INS that they shouldn't bother to arrest illegals when they find them because the INS will not take them into custody, instead they recommend a catch and release...
My guess is if a citizen tried to make a citizens arrest of an illegal immigrant he would end up with the ACLU up his butt and be charged with kidnapping!
It's Bizzarro World man!

Will Robinson wrote:The f@#$king illegals get out of state tuition rates where our children have to pay full price at state universities for crying out loud!!!
So bite me Vincente Fox and all you La Raza biotches!

/me is confused... in-state tuition = cheaper.

DCrazy wrote:

Will Robinson wrote:The f@#$king illegals get out of state tuition rates where our children have to pay full price at state universities for crying out loud!!!
So bite me Vincente Fox and all you La Raza biotches!

/me is confused... in-state tuition = cheaper.

sorry, it was supposed to be they pay in state we pay out of state....
I'll fix it. Well I'll fix my post anyway good luck fixing the problem lol

I bet for $20 a day you could hire an illegal to keep up the minute man job for you once the summer heat hits. Just another job that no American wants.

Goob,
while I did find that pretty funny, I know it was intended to be a dig at my desire to avoid the heat.
I have a solution- instead of bagging on me for doing a little something, why not join me? I'll drive to AZ and sit in the heat with you if you'll join me in the effort to do a little something. No, I'm not bullsh&tin'..Here's the only thing I request- You join me the whole time I'm there and you do the same job I do.

Otherwise, I see your subtle dig as nothing more than
an attempt to make me appear evil because you don't agree with the cause.
It's easy to sit behind the computer and belittle my efforts to do what I feel is right.

It appears that July is the hottest month. Can you set a week aside in July? If I decide to fly instead, would you be able to pick me up(and drop me off) at the airport?

Show me what you're made of.

559-871-3985 is my cell phone- let's make some plans.

B-

It was seriously just a joke. I'm not sure if I want to take a week off of work to go stand out in the sun for a cause I'm not sure I actually support....just for my internet ego. This is my 25th summer in AZ, nothing too new.

If your comming down, I'd love to go with you, show you around, hang out, hell, it might be informative, but I don't want it to be some pissing contest about internet egos, and probably just for the weekend. Eitherway, I could pick you up and drop you off form the airport no problem.

I respect that your doing something for a cause you believe in, but that doesn't mean im not gonna give you ★■◆● about it.

<3

And if your comming out we *totally* need to do another margarita lan with bfdd/dg, kyle and papercut.

I won't let you bag on me without responding in kind. I take this stuff pretty seriously because I hate the direction we're headed(as a nation) and there isn't many things that I can do that will yield a quick result.It has nothing to do with internet ego.
In all honesty, I'm tired of sitting around complaining and doing *nothing but* complain. I also don't take too kindly to folks who do *nothing but* complain, yet belittle my efforts.I have children that I'm worried about, I don't want them having to struggle if I have the ability to make a difference for them. Not that this alone will, but it's something.

My offer still stands, though.. I'll even pay for food the whole time we're out there. You can't turn this deal down.It wouldn't be *that* bad, ya big pussy.


I haven't played D3 since Califest '03 and I don't drink. I'm afraid I'd be quite boring for you and BFDD.

Wait- I still have no idea where you stand, Goob.

Share, please.

ya know, i don't really think a minuteman project would even be necessary if someone either streamlined the immigration programs or made them more accessable.

If i were a mexican, I'd probably dislike being in a country on an illegal basis.

Ferno wrote:ya know, i don't really think a minuteman project would even be necessary if someone either streamlined the immigration programs or made them more accessable.

If i were a mexican, I'd probably dislike being in a country on an illegal basis.

True enough but would you enter a country illegally and then demand the same rights and benefits as the legal citizens there or would you recognize you are already skating on thin ice and think twice before demanding the old white people shut up and go away because you and your fellow illegals plan to take over the country by exploiting the lax system the old white people were using to control their borders?
And further, when the old white people took offense at your fellow illegals proclaiming their invasion/overthrow by flooding the population with their offspring would you think they were racists for wanting to tighten up the borders?

The more I think about their new attitude (perhaps not new, just recently secure enough in their exempt from the law status to vocalize it) the more I think they can piss off. I'll gladly pay $10 per head of lettuce and watch the youth of america fill the jobs demanding better pay which results in higher wages and higher prices...
I already pay extra in taxes for the benefits of those illegals in many ways with all the free programs they suckle at, at least paying some highschool kids and other untrained, uneducated or otherwise unmotivated people higher wages for the field work and construction jobs will sit better with me since they are legally here and share the culture with us instead of trying to change it to suit their own race!

Build the damn wall and raise the labor rate to fill the jobs, it's a better investment by far than our country being the equivalent of the crazy old lady on the block who takes in all the stray dogs and cats looking for food and shelter! Have you ever seen what the inside of that lady's house looks like?

Will Robinson wrote:or would you recognize you are already skating on thin ice and think twice before demanding the old white people shut up and go away because you and your fellow illegals plan to take over the country by exploiting the lax system the old white people were using to control their borders?

It's not about illegals vs. "old white people", its about illegals vs. citizens. And a very large percentage of the citizens here are not white.

The problem is that the illegals aren't LEGAL. They earn diddlysquat because they can't get better jobs as illegals. We get some cheap work because of that, but overall everyone's wages get lowered. They don't have insurance and other niceties because they can't get them, they are illegal. They don't report crimes and are especially vulnerable to them, because they are illegal. They don't pay Taxes or participate in the government, because they are illegal.

And yet, our system offers them benefits. Welfare that will give them more money then they ever could have earned WORKING at home. Schools that are better than they ever could have afforded in Mexico. Medical care better than most people in Mexico can pay for. Etc.

It's all a BAD idea. Illegals are a DRAIN on the economy, not a benefit. And granting amnesty to those here sends the wrong message about how to get into this country.

So, send the illegals home. And the best way to do that is to cut off the support systems. Don't bother chasing illegals, chase the employers, put REAL penalties on businesses who employee illegals. Don't let illegals get into the welfare system. Don't let illegals get drivers licenses. Remove the reasons for being here, and the illegals will go home on their own. No wall, no midnight patrols on the Rio Grande, no tractor trailers full of dead people discovered in the desert. If you remove the benefits, they will not come.

THEN, fire everyone who works for the NIS, and start over with a new and simple system. You want to be a FULLY PARTICIPATING CITIZEN, fine, come on in. We are going to check and see that you are healthy, and that you are not a criminal. Then you are welcome to become a citizen. A citizen who votes, pays taxes, and is fully a part of our system. Tada! We are spreading Democracy! And we didn't even have to kill anyone! The LEGAL immigrants will enrich our culture, our economy, and our democracy. Everyone benefits.

Kilarin wrote:It's not about illegals vs. "old white people", its about illegals vs. citizens. And a very large percentage of the citizens here are not white....

I understand the drain the immigrants, both legal and illegal put on our economy as well as the other negetive aspects of accepting immigrants.
But recently they did make it about illegals vs. old white people. You see, I didn't come up with that on my own I quoted a recent speech from a mexican american representative at one of the rallies they held to protest our desire to enforce our immigration laws.

They said they would 'take back the land the white men stole' essentially by flooding our country en masse and out breeding us.
this speech by the way was given by a california government official! Not just some outraged latino activist.

So they lost my support. I used to be on their side but now I can't afford to accomodate such a rude destructive guest in my country.
Yes my country, we "stole it" fair and square under the rules the world operates under.
I'm not one bit ashamed or guilty about the way the world works in such matters. I accept my role in the way the world works and strive for my tribe to prevail over other tribes either by conquest or by assimilating them.
The mexicans are welcome to try and steal it back under the same rules but I'll be damned if I'll accomodate their attempt by subsidizing their stealthy efforts.
From now on they can use the front door and deal with the gatekeepers. My focus will be on improving the quality of the gatekeepers and their enforcement of the rules.

I see no reason to export those that are here and once the gates are shut and properly regulated I say give them all citizenship if they pass a criminal screening. But we must close the gate first, any treatment is pointless if we don't first stop the bleeding.

I'm pissed off at the way they reacted to the situation, obviously all latino's don't hold the views of the protestors, nor do all protestors hold a monolythic position, but the overall problem is big enough to justify profiling in my view.

It's simple, if you aren't a citizen and you try to cross illegally you fit the profile of one we should refuse entry to. I don't care that it used to be different...too bad.
We've had enough.

And if you already made it in illegally you ought to think about shutting your damn pie hole until you gain citizenship!
Remember, the reason you were allowed to enter so easily was because america wanted a permanent lower class citizen to clean up after her! So to quote a warning an old friend of mine used to issue when he saw people getting too cocky:
"Don't get too happy you're here or someone might notice".

Here's some support , Will..



HISPANIC LEADERS SPEAK OUT!

Augustin Cebada, Brown Berets; \"Go back to Boston! Go back to Plymouth Rock,
Pilgrims! Get out! We are the future. You are old and tired. Go on. We have
beaten you. Leave like beaten rats. You old white people. It is your duty to
die . . Through love of having children, we are going to take over.

Richard Alatorre, Los Angeles City Council. \"They're afraid we're going to
take over the governmental institutions and other institutions. They're right.
We will take them over . . . We are here to stay.\"

Excelsior, the national newspaper of Mexico, \"The American Southwest seems to
be slowly returning to the jurisdiction of Mexico without firing a single shot.\"

Professor Jose Angel Gutierrez, University of Texas; \"We have an aging white
America. They are not making babies. They are dying. The explosion is in our
population . . . I love it. They are shitting in their pants with fear. I love
it.\"

Art Torres, Chairman of the California Democratic Party, \"Remember
187--proposition to deny taxpayer funds for services to non-citizens--was the
last gasp of white America in California.\"

Gloria Molina, Los Angeles County Supervisor, \"We are politicizing every
single one of these new citizens that are becoming citizens of this country .
. I gotta tell you that a lot of people are saying, \"I'm going to go out there
and vote because I want to pay them back.\"

Mario Obledo, California Coalition of Hispanic Organizations and California
State Secretary of Health, Education and Welfare under Governor Jerry Brown,
also awarded the Presidential Medal of Freedom by President Bill Clinton,
\"California is going to be a Hispanic state. Anyone who doesn't like it should
leave.\"

Jose Pescador Osuna, Mexican Consul General , \"We are practicing 'La
Reconquista' in California.\"

Professor Fernando Guerra, Loyola Marymount University; \"We need to avoid a
white backlash by using codes understood by Latinos . . \"

These are mainstream Mexican
leaders.

Ah well, eventually they'll discover that one element of their plan didn't quite go as they'd projected: \"white America\" won't be so willing to accommodate them anymore. But what they call \"white America\" is, in reality, everyone but them.

Dont' you guys feel like you're fighting something kind of moot? You won't get Washington to back you simply for the fact that the corporations need that cheap labor and have your politician's ear more than you do. Get over it...you can't stop them. Hoodlum citizens thinking they're rambo and trying to stop them isn't going to work.

I accept them barry. I have no problem with them, sure I wish they'd go through the channels, but I know why they don't. The opportunity to make a living is here, screw the paperwork, they make money immediately, and they can go under the radar screen. Personally, I think the culture adds a little flair, seriously think about it, they bring titty bars, burritos, mota, all the good stuff. I think it's great, and nobody on this earth works harder than they do.

Right on the head Zuruck, its the Corporations propagating the problem as well as the politicians...

They have no souls.

As for the minuteman speak read here...
http://www.minutemanproject.com/

As Ferno said it will make your head hurt reading it.

Bunch 'O News articles from a relevant \"Border Area\";
http://www.kvoa.com/Global/category.asp ... enu216_2_1

Bwhhaaa they smoked a $10,000,000.00 UAV!

Okay, so let me get this straight. You don't really approve of their lack of willingness to become American citizens(or at least legal). However, because our own government is refusing to take any action against illegal invaders, you'll allow yourself to be \"okay with it\".

Well, I'm not okay with it.

The next time we experience a downturn in the economy here, I’m going to pack up my family and move them into your backyard. No, I mean Your backyard – at your house. I figure we’ll pitch a tent and set up housekeeping.

Mind you, I’m not asking for permission or your blessing – just letting you know how it’s going to be.

Oh sure, we’ll be trespassing and all, but I know that won’t bother you a bit. You see, I’m in construction and I’m a hard worker (although admittedly Anglo-Saxon, I’m afraid – I hope that doesn’t count against me in your eyes) and will allow you to hire me in such a manner as you make out pretty good overall.

I feel pretty safe about all this because I know you won’t report me to the authorities for my trespassing. Because, and I stress this point, it will be good for your business bottom line.

Now, I’ve got quite a few brothers and sisters and nephews and nieces and aunts and uncles and cousins who are also going to be relocating with me. Times are hard for them too, you know.

Oh, don’t fret. I realize that the whole extended family probably won’t fit in your backyard, so not to worry. No, the others will just move into your neighbor’s backyards and set up camp.

Some of my relatives are really hard workers too, so maybe you can manage to employ them all? Of course, some of them are a bit lazy and shiftless, so forget offering them a job. Some are not capable of working because of age or physical ailments, or taking care of lots of kids. Hell, some of them are even gang members and outright criminals.

But I’m not worried or concerned about them. You see, I know that you and your neighbors will take care of us. Those of us who aren’t capable of working or just don’t want to… well, we know that you and your neighbors will foot the bill for us, and happily, too.

So here’s a starter list of things some of us will need; how about things like free medical care, free schooling, free food and housing – you get the idea.

Don’t worry about auto insurance though, we won’t. If we should happen to trash somebody’s car, property, body, etc., well…. que sera sera. It’s not like we meant to hit you. Do you know what insurance costs these days? Sheesh!

Don’t think we won’t be grateful, though. When enough of us live in you and your neighbor’s backyards, we’re going to make sure we vote whenever possible. We’ll see to it that those politicians willing to sell their souls for votes hear our voices. Then you’ll truly see gratitude. Forget this backyard nonsense, you’ve got this nice, big warm and dry house. We’ll just move in to one or two of those bedrooms you’ve been selfishly occupying. If that bothers you, well… move along. What? Are you prejudiced against white people or something?

We might even wind up allowing you to stay in your own neighborhood. Then again, we may just drape ourselves in our flag(not yours) and march in great numbers through your town demanding our rights to what is yours. It’s not like that concept is without precedent.


Tell me, how much can you see down there with your head stuck in the sand?

Your more than welcome to camp out in my yard, just mind the deer poop, cougars and bears.

You aren't going to stem the tide of immigration with your actions, or even solve one iota of the problems you mention by strutting around with your gun in the desert. Nothing but idealistic patriotic propaganda.

You have to remove the catalyst that causes the problems. One of these is big business getting away with hiring the illegals. Another is the policies and laws. Take your guns and strut around the politicians houses and the big companies... that will get you some action.

Educate the immigrants and make them pay for services just like any other person, whats wrong with that?
Please tell me whats wrong with educating and producing productive citizens?
Isn't that the goal of any society?

Ya know, maybe letting them overrun California isn't such a bad thing. Think about it- we let 'em come in unchecked, eventually they force an economic collapse. El Gringo has no work for them and they go home.

Or

They force out all the normal people leaving only the bleeders and weird folks. They're overrun by violence and political curruption and are forced to take up arms against the illegals. But wait, they have no means of taking up arms because they've banned firearms. That means the illegals wipe 'em out.

It just might be a win/win situation.

I'm not going to the boarder after all..

Socialist Canada-man,

I'm aware of what/who is perpetuating the problem. See, here, in the United States of America, if we don't like something that's going on we do everything within out legal right to get the attention of the folks who have the ability to fix it. I'm really surprised that in your infinite Canadian wisdom, you have yet to figure out that the goal of the project is to draw attention to a growing problem that our legislators refuse to address. See, that's what the illegals are doing and they call it protest. The problem is the legislators are listening to illegals rather than its own citizens. While I have every intention of calling out boarder patrol to detain (and otherwise, enable illegals to suck up my tax dollars) illegals while I'm there, I'm making more of a political statement than anything. Will one more person force our legislators to listen? probably not- but, I'm doing it anyway.

So you can stop with the \"parade around the desert with guns\" propaganda and go back to watching hockey, eh?

B,

the reason the government is refuising to do something about it quite simple. they make money off it.

you really think the government is going to interfere with corporations who make bigger profits because they hire illegals? come on. Big business is the biggest government backer there is.

you're targeting the wrong people man. and my gut tells me it's gonna end up biting you real bad.

On the language issue: It's not about which language is better, more pure, first spoken in country etc.
It's about who dictates the parameters and standards of community behavior which a new arrival adopts as his own benchmark for interaction with the other members of the society.

A slow steady influx of immigrants can be sustained both economically and without much detriment to our culture. However, a flood of immigrants from any one faction will change the culture and bankrupt our social services, fill our jails and schools beyond capacity and generally screw up the way of life we have developed.
We have a very extensive network of social services and tax payer funded charity in this country. It's very expensive to maintain and it won't sustain a modern day gold rush of illegal aliens!

It's a question of either, assimilation, or move over to allow foriegn pioneers to take our land and resources so they may stake out a piece of america and make it their own.
The latter simply wont do!

We have already pioneered the place from sea to shining sea and we took it as our own a long time ago. That phase of the development of this land has long since passed.
The fact that the current american citizens are niether the aboriginal or even the decendants of the aboriginals means absolutely nothing in determining who owns the land today or which culture deserves to rule the land! This isn't a fairy tale, there is no such thing as fair in these matters.

I know that goes against the popular, romantic notions of the politically correct but it's the cold hard way of life on this planet and it has been that way since the first cave man wielded a club or spear and took a cave from another neanderthal and declared it his own.

Any discussion of who should dictate the rules we live by in america, any discussion of what gruop of people should shape the culture here, will either be based on the premise that the legal citizens of america and their current representative government is, in fact, the ultimate authority, or the discussion isn't about us or we or americans, it's about invaders or revolution.

So if you want to talk about what america should or should not do, about what america has a right to do or not do with regards to immigration and shaping her society, then forget about who used to live here or even how easy it has been in the past for illegal aliens to walk in and set up camp.
At anytime America can close her doors and say \"Go away!\". It is completely within her right, and, as it always has been on this planet among tribes or countries, authorized solely by her might not devine law or the consensus of the world community.

I'm not suggesting we should lock the gate and throw away the key, but making immigrants use the gate and only with our permission instead of pretending not to notice them climbing the fence is well within our rights and serves our best interest.

We created the problem and we can fix it. Simply close the borders as best as we can and operate the gate more diligently enforcing entry regulations and laws that cause immigrants to assimilate to our society at a rate that serves us instead of over run us.

That would allow us to preserve the melting pot without turning into an over turned kettle at a food fight.

but illegals aren't living in my backyard, they live 20 to a shack that i wouldn't spend one night in. my full coverage insurance is $120.00 a month, not a big deal to me.

i've got a compromise. Let's switch the Mexicans for american gun advocates. Go shoot all the guns you want in Mexico, they can come here, and you won't have to worry about it. Why don't you go live there?

I have a better idea- Why don't *you* go live down there with them? I'm the one with the guns.

but illegals aren't living in my backyard, they live 20 to a shack that i wouldn't spend one night in.

I have a solution that will make your bleeding heart stop bleeding. Find a shack that 20 illegals are living in and bring them into your home to live with you.

I'm pretty sure you'll dance carefully around that solution and it means one thing- that is, your bleeding stops as soon as the solution disrupts your quality of life. Yet, I'm a heartless gun toting nutjob because I won't allow them to change mine.

How much can you see with your head in the sand?

Zuruck wrote:but illegals aren't living in my backyard, they live 20 to a shack that i wouldn't spend one night in. my full coverage insurance is $120.00 a month, not a big deal to me.

i've got a compromise. Let's switch the Mexicans for american gun advocates. Go shoot all the guns you want in Mexico, they can come here, and you won't have to worry about it. Why don't you go live there?

So as long as you don't see the problem in your immediate geographical area it doesn't exist?

Of course economically it is affecting you but perhaps you just don't realize it.

Example:
The federal government taxes you to fund the many programs we have. Just one of those programs is to pay the state, including your state, 25% of the expense each state must cover to imprison illegal aliens who are arrested and convicted.
Basically the federal government, who is responsible for keeping the illegals out, admits they are failing to do so and chip in to cover the extra cost each state bears to protect themselves from the criminal element.

So from 2002 to 2005 the federal government payed, using your tax dollars, 5.8 billion dollars to help defray the total cost of 23.2 billion dollars that the states had to spend to hold their illegal aliens in prison.
The illegals cost the taxpayers almost 6 billion dollars per year just to deal with incarcerating the criminal element among them.

This is only one aspect of the total cost the taxpayers must cover for the privalige of having them sneak in here, drive down the cost of labor, drive up the cost of insurance and health coverage etc. etc. etc. Basically, from the studies I've read so far, the illegal family consumes 40% more benefits from tax revenue funded programs than it pays in, and even if you make them legal to be able to more thoroughly tax their income the ratio doesn't improve to the point of break even.

So if your best attempt to dismiss our concern is to tell us that 'you don't see it so it's not an issue'...well, all I can say to that is I'm considering the premise of your dismissal and I find it either woefully ignorant, or willfully stupid.

Wait a sec, you guys have them living in your house? I don't see how it's applicable to me if you don't either. They have yet to corrupt my life, I can't see how they've corrupted yours either unless you run a union shop where you're skimming from the top (I favor unions too btw).

Worried about economics? Get your politicians to get rid of the pork in bills, get your favorite president to veto a spending bill. Do something real instead of hiding behind your computer screen thinking that the Mexican down the street working 20 hours a day is killing your pocketbook.

What were the figures on the amount that they contribute to social security with the phony ssn numbers? Somewhere around 20 billion a year? I'd say that clears the criminal element, what else does that take care of?

As I sit here, I'm watching Exxon report another record profit this quarter.

You are so mixed up on so many different levels, I don't even know where to start.

Ok ok, let's start somewhere easy.


Why is this a big deal to you?