DescentBB

Didn't you say something about \"extracting the facts\"? And there's a big disclaimer at the bottom about how this does not necessarily represent the views of the St. Louis brach of the Fed. One of the things about research, even when the gov charters it, is that those in charge understand that sometimes research has to go against the grain.

Here's were the conspiracy theorist in me comes out, you probably haven't noticed until now.
Take a brief walk through history and you'll see lies, manipulations, etc.Those in power tend to abuse it in some form or another. I can show you so many manupuled figures from almost all government agencies it'll make your head spin. The truth is hidden most cases.. and when money is involved, all bets are off.

The paper I linked to actually states flat out that a commodity system is the only system whose stability we can measure consistently. It's a treatment of the measurable facts.

The paper states that a commodity based system is easily measurable and a floating sytem is less so, but it doesn't say the system itself is more stable. It suggest that fiat currency is subject to the same trends, inflation, etc than a commodity based system which isn't true at all.

The paper states that from 1880 to 1913 the manner in which our representative money was treated was equivalent in all measurable aspects to a true commodity system. The Fed was created in 1913. Prior to this point there was no central bank to execute fractional reserve banking.

This is incorrect. Our representative money was not treated as an equivalent to commodity based money- Matter of fact, in 1861 greenback were issued and confidence in the paper currency dwindled so much so that the U.S government had to create interest-bearing notes because the citizens were wise enough to see the system and monitary supply was being manipulated. The interest inspired citizens to hold onto the currency which(consumer confidence?) helped finance our civil war.
If prior to 1880, the government was manipluating currency and providing interest-bearing notes to inspire citizens to not redeem then for cotten, how then, could a more recent system be the equivalent and measurable to a true commodity based system? There has always been manipulations of the currency since the inception of representative money, any manipulation is not a commodity system and cannot be used as a measurement against the said system.

Well, it's not that simple. I'd say it's more like \"Intangible value vs. tangible value\". About the only thing our currency is good at is burning. Gold can be made into jewelry, etc. So yes, your point still stands.

I hate to nit-pick, but full-faith is intangible and commodity is tangible- perceived value vs. real value.



I'm glad catch22 and Goob find this interesting. If you have questions, ask away.

I just wanted to point out that it's one of the favorite arguments of those paranoid of a Zionist banking conspiracy taking over the U.S. economy. Literally, all you have to do is insert the word Zionist in front of \"banking fraternity\" and you have a well-recognized crackpot theory.

While it may appear to be some crackpot theory, consider Black's Law Dictionary defines the \"Federal Reserve System as: \"Network of twelve central banks to which most national banks belong and to which state chartered banks may belong. Membership rules require investment of stock and minimum reserves.\"

if you're unsure as to the legitimacy of Black's Law Dictionary, it is the most frequently used U.S legal dictionary and is obviously highly respected and highly accurate.

Don't all banks have to belong to the Fed? I thought that was one of the reuqirements they instituted after the S&L crash in the '80s.

No, there are plenty of private banks in the U.S with no ties(other than using the same notes) to the FR.

Not to mention those who belong to the Federal Reserve system kind of want their money to have some value... I fail to see the incentive in devaluing the U.S. Dollar to nil when all your \"wealth\" is measured in that currency, especially when it all exists on paper and not in cash anyway.

I missed this-

The incentive is this- They convert their reserves to real assets(property, commodity, foreign currency) while the American people take the fall for a plummeting dollar. What property, you ask? The property they buy/loan on.. your property! see, if teh dollar plummets and you have a mortgage, guess who owns *your* assets? A devaluing dollar provides profit in good time or bad, war or peace. The devaluing dollar perpetuates their wealth by defaulted loans, etc.

Have a look at our inflationary rate since 1913 and you'll see that, even though our wages have increased, the dollar has lost over 95% of its value. You may argue that wages nullify this, they don't.. 95% of value is 95% of value. The wages must follow close(or closely behind) in order for us to survive. Regardless, it's still lost 95% of its value.
Wouldn't happen under a commodity based system.

We have a national debt because we spend more than we take in. This includes the recent Bush tax loan.

Fusion Pimp just wants to rant about how he distrusts Fiat money Which has made him a lot of money, now that silver is at 13! Wish I had emptied my Mutual funds when it was at 7 like I wanted to and my dad talked me out of!

We have a national debt because we spend more than we take in. This includes the recent Bush tax loan.

Partially, but that is not the full reason for national debt. Don't get me started, Brian.

Fusion Pimp just wants to rant about how he distrusts Fiat money Smile Which has made him a lot of money, now that silver is at 13!

Rant? Nah. I think it's important for people know about the lifeblood of our economy.Considering that for the most part, the convo has been between me and Dcrazy-I think an attempt to educating the readers is in order.

Wish I had emptied my Mutual funds when it was at 7 like I wanted to and my dad talked me out of!

I won't rub it in. You did make a decent profit, anyway.

P.S- It's not too late!
MY silver dealer who tried to talk me out of silver a few years ago and into gold recently exchanged all of his gold for silver, about 125k worth. We both believe silver will hit 20.00/oz by the fall.Some are suggesting 50.00 by spring. We'll see. Either way
I've tripled my investment in 3 years. Not a bad return if you 'axe' me.

Hint- Brian, it's not too late.















It's not too late, Brian.


B-

I'm disappointed this thread died. I was waiting for Goob/Catch22's comments as well.

I'm usually more game for econ threads, I just don't have as much time now that I have a job (as I type this from work). Interesting about silver going up more... considering it's almost twice its all time high. I had been considering buying and holding, or even selling short... but sellign short is just too dangerous since you can't just sell when you want to, you have to pick a certain time from what I understand.

What do you know about safe storage of silver? I live in a house with many roomates, we're a few blocks near a homeless shelter, and there is a river running through our backyard that people hike past, so I'm concerned about leaving a few G's of silver lying around. Do you do insured safe deposit box or what?

I wouldn't store any valuables where I didn't feel it was completely safe. What about your parents house? As for the safety deposit box- I wouldn't use one mainly because I don't have total control of my assets. I also don't think they're large enough to store any decent amount. Besides, why would you want to pay someone else to store your goods? It's just more money you no longer have at your disposal.I wouldn't give or trust them with a dime of my money, clad or otherwise.