DescentBB

Krom wrote:

Spaceboy wrote:we all know alcohol isn't good for you.

Actually... It has been known for quite a while now that a glass of wine a day is good for you.

Are you serious?
Alcohol isn't.

just drink a cup of grape juice and you get the same effect, we all know alcohol isn't good for you.

Spaceboy wrote:...That's what my posts were about. You read one sentence of my post and isolated it in your mind out of context, don't do that.

You use this language elsewhere too, even throughout other posts, e.g. "Caffeine isn't supposed to be in our diets..." and "it isn't a natural chemical that we're meant to have in our body."

I'd say that it's been a central part of your argument that caffeine isn't meant for us, which, like I said, is trivially true of anything predating humans, so it's not convincing of anything.

Jeff250 wrote:

Spaceboy wrote:...That's what my posts were about. You read one sentence of my post and isolated it in your mind out of context, don't do that.

You use this language elsewhere too, even throughout other posts, e.g. "Caffeine isn't supposed to be in our diets..." and "it isn't a natural chemical that we're meant to have in our body."

I'd say that it's been a central part of your argument that caffeine isn't meant for us, which, like I said, is trivially true of anything predating humans, so it's not convincing of anything.

Yes, it has nothing to do with god or morality. Simplified for you, a chemical that our bodies did not evolve to consume, and a chemical that inhibits a natural process within our body, cannot be good. You focus only on those lines and read nothing else within my posts. Sigh.

It comes down to this: you have an obligation to not (whether intentionally or unintentionally) use language that is misleading or untrue to artificially bolster your argument. You're going to have to accept that. This whole \"not all of the lines are like that\" argument doesn't really fly.

Sure.

TechPro wrote:

Testiculese wrote:Caffeine is a natural chemical.

Yes, but it's not meant to be naturally taken into our bodies (which is what Spaceboy said).

Caffeine is a drug.
Reliance on a drug (a drug not prescribed by a Doctor) is drug abuse.

Don't agree? Tough. It's your life and body to destroy. Go right ahead.

My thoughts exactly.

Spaceboy, you should look up natural sources of caffeine. It is pretty easy for it to have been part of our diet for millions of years since many plants produce it as a natural pesticide.

It's possible to get some of the improved mental functioning caffene instills through other means.

While I can't locate the relevant study - a dose of protien can help boost concentration for short periods (this one works very well for me - I have a sausage, a few slices of ham or some low-fat salami about ten minutes before important meetings. It REALLY helps the clarity and speed of my thought processes! Unfortunately though it only lasts about an hour or two.)

Ginko Biloba has also been shown to boost memory function with regular intake (again, I can't locate the study I read that supports this proposition - but I'll keep looking).

Also, some believe lecithin can be beneficial ( http://www.vanderbilt.edu/AnS/psycholog ... LEMENT.htm - and here at - http://www.bodyandfitness.com/Informati ... cithin.htm ) but this is disputed bu other researchers, and I have yet to try its effectiveness personally.

Caffene is useful for concentration and mental functioning yes (it worked brilliantly for Gary Larson I note ) but it's far from a be-all-and-end-all solution.

...it is however one of the few addictive substances that can added to foods by manufacturers (in Aust. and elsewhere) legally.

Alcohol is good for you because it relaxes you, and that's what a lot of people need.

If drugs are bad because they arn't natural, then all medicines fit the same description. Yet - obviously medicines ARE good for you, because they make people better.

Alcohol, Caffine and other drugs are essentially forms of self-medication. They are ways to make us feel healthier in situations where out body can't cope otherwise.

Even when used recreationally, drugs are self-medicating. Just like a doctor can prescribe a holiday, bed-rest, or a different outlook on life. We all instictively know what we need.

It's all a question of subjectivity, on what is pathology and what isn't. What is medication, and what isn't. Personally, i think it's ALL medication, we subconsciously medicate ourselves. Even eating food is medication - our body needs it.

approx 90% of schizophrenics smoke tobacco, because it helps them focus and relax. It's not prescribed - they just seek it out themselves because they instictively know they want to be more focused and relaxed. There have been studies done and they agree it is a form of self-medication.

Doctors arn't magical gods or anything. In a perfect world we would ALL be Doctors and know howto take better care of ourselves (generally by more accurately reading and responding to our body's needs). Doctors simple know things that most people can't be bothered to know. But that doesn't mean that ONLY Doctors know such things. We all know to goto bed when we're sleepy for instance. Some of us choose to know... more, but don't label themselves as doctors.



Anyway... i have discovered that i do not like caffine. A week ago or so i had a diet coke and manicly ranted in IRC for an hour (i wonder if anyone here saw that).
I had a diet coke this morning and was so paniced i couldn't leave the house. Won't do that again. Well... until i forget again.


(or maybe it's the artificial sweeteners)

Gekko71 wrote:

Top Wop wrote:I dont know what to change in my diet, I dont drink, I dont have much caffeine if at all, I dont consume many sweets and when I do its just dessert at 7 PM. I always try to have a bit of tomatoes with my sandwiches every day and I take vitamins like magnesium and vitamin C every day. And yet I still crap out for the rest of the day.

Lethargy can also be a sign of deydration. I find that I loose energy very rapidly if I don't drink enough water. Remember that the sensation of thirst only kicks long after we're dehydrated. Try drinking water the next time you're really lethargic - or even better, drink it half an hour before.

That was my first thought. When I'm really and irrationally tired, it's usually because I haven't been getting my water in. It's easy to forget.

I actually lived most of my life dehydrated, and had all sorts of problems that I thought were just normal. When I went on a diet to lose weight, I was stunned at the amount of water they told me to drink. I was supposed to drink more water in a day than I generally drank total liquids in a week! I was also stunned at how many problems I'd had all my life went away within the week. Knowing my body better, I now recognize them in retrospect as symptoms of dehydration.

As for caffeine, I find that I'm dependent on some sort of nervous activity while I'm working. It helps me focus. Originally, it was eating almonds and M&Ms. Prodigiously. See above problem. After that, I switched to massive amounts of black tea. The caffeine was a bit much, though, and left me nervous and jumpy. So these days I mostly do green, white, and herbal tea. The horizon-broadening has been nice, actually. White tea is excellent.

Curiously, the productivity and focus boost seems to be as much a placebo effect for me as a physical one. Drinking hot water seems to work just as well. Not that I'm disputing the efficacity of caffeine. I just find it interesting that even when I know I'm drinking nothing but hot water, I have a tendency to forget, wrapped up in my work as I am, and my mind/body decides it's tea.

roid wrote:Alcohol, Caffine and other drugs are essentially forms of self-medication. They are ways to make us feel healthier in situations where out body can't cope otherwise.

Exactly. The same goes for sugar, though, and lots of others stuff. Most of the time were not even aware that were taking psychoactive drugs to make us adjust better to a situation.

Drakona wrote:uriously, the productivity and focus boost seems to be as much a placebo effect for me as a physical one. Drinking hot water seems to work just as well. Not that I'm disputing the efficacity of caffeine. I just find it interesting that even when I know I'm drinking nothing but hot water, I have a tendency to forget, wrapped up in my work as I am, and my mind/body decides it's tea.

Funny, I am totally opposite. When i drink a really weak coffee, I get a bit sick. I think it's because my body, when tasting coffee, takes anticipatory measures to digest the caffein, but then, ends up being too low on it (similar mechanism as what roid proposes here for the artificial sweeteners).

Gekko71 wrote: While I can't locate the relevant study - a dose of protien can help boost concentration for short periods (this one works very well for me - I have a sausage, a few slices of ham or some low-fat salami about ten minutes before important meetings. It REALLY helps the clarity and speed of my thought processes! Unfortunately though it only lasts about an hour or two.)

That's an interesting experience, Gekko. I want to try eating some proteins before classes. I've been having a problem where I would go to my afternoon class and then spend at least 30-45 minutes fighting sleep. My body likes afternoon naps and if I don't have a good nap before class, I'm screwed. Caffine doesn't work- Frapps, Red Bulls, sodas and I would not try Monster Energy/Rockstar. When I start to get sleepy I'd pull out a stick of gun and chew on that and start takng gulps of water. Most of the time even that does not work.

I think I'll try some protein snacks before this class an eat an apple before my 3 hr night class afterwards. For some reason, I struggle in my afternoon class whereas in my night class I have no problem staying awake... must be because the teacher's so loud and humorous

uh... just as an adjunct. You should know that a properly timed dose of protein then carbs is a good way to send you to sleep .

Sources of protein contain the protein Tryptophan, which will be able to get through your brain-brain-barrier a lot easier once the carbs (via insulin stimulation) shuffle all the rest of the blood-brain-barrier competing amino acids from your protein snack safely into your muscles. Then once in your brain Tryptophan will change into Serotonin, then Melatonin.

The whole process will make you happy (serotonin yay), and then make you very relaxed (melatonin yayzzzzzzzz)

think, the nice happy feeling then sleep after a thanksgiving turkey dinner (very high in Tryptophan).

Anyway either way it'll at least relax you and clear your head, Good for learnin

Kiran wrote:

Gekko71 wrote: While I can't locate the relevant study - a dose of protien can help boost concentration for short periods (this one works very well for me - I have a sausage, a few slices of ham or some low-fat salami about ten minutes before important meetings. It REALLY helps the clarity and speed of my thought processes! Unfortunately though it only lasts about an hour or two.)

That's an interesting experience, Gekko. I want to try eating some proteins before classes. I've been having a problem where I would go to my afternoon class and then spend at least 30-45 minutes fighting sleep. My body likes afternoon naps and if I don't have a good nap before class, I'm screwed. Caffine doesn't work- Frapps, Red Bulls, sodas and I would not try Monster Energy/Rockstar. When I start to get sleepy I'd pull out a stick of gun and chew on that and start takng gulps of water. Most of the time even that does not work.

I think I'll try some protein snacks before this class an eat an apple before my 3 hr night class afterwards. For some reason, I struggle in my afternoon class whereas in my night class I have no problem staying awake... must be because the teacher's so loud and humorous

It does work Kiran (for me at least) with a caveat or two.

Roid is quite right - a mixture of carbohydrate and protien will send you to sleep. As will a sudden surge in blood sugar - IE eating chocolate or something else loaded with sugar. The former happens for the reasons mentioned by Roid, the latter happens because your body first releases sugar it has stored & then produces excess insulin to cope with the sugar you have eaten - which then becomes an over compensation by your body and you become drowsy (my science is hazy on this particular phenomenon ...but it's somethign I have experienced too many times to ignore).

The protein mind-boost works best for me when I haven't eaten anything else for an hour or so at least. What I do is note the times of my important meetings with clients etc. - then make sure I eat nothing heavy, sweet or loaded with carbohydrates for an hour beforehand. Then, 10 minutes before my meeting, I eat my protien (I find low-fat animal proteins are best. Vegtable protein may work equally well. Personally I prefer the meat

This all may sound convoluted, but with me being so busy I often skip a meal during the day through sheer necessity - so avoiding starchy / sugary foods prior to a meeting is very easy. I haven't found that research on the phenomenon yet - but the effect is consistent enough to swear by. I have tried other foods (carbohydrates only, fruit only etc) but they don't work nearly as well, if at all. And I don't think it's a placebo effect either - the only time it didn't work was when I was eating vegetarian-meat-substitute by mistake

As for falling asleep in the afternoon, I did this often too. Then I discovered the effects of mixing high amounts of protein with high amounts of carbohydrate in one meal. Since then I've had much better luck in avoiding that mid-afternoon doze (...worse luck!!)

Try a food combining diet - this is a diet where certain food combinations are taboo because they cause chemical reactions in your body that interfere with each other (like protein and starch). There are many books available on the subject. Many think this is bunkum science - and they many be right - but again it worked for me. The diet is a pain - so many things you ned to avoid ...but then again, my energy levels on that diet were off the charts!

Sorry for the massive post - hope it helps!

Wow, that's some good advice there, Gekko! I'll start today and see how it goes for a few weeks. Considering my busy lifestyle, I'll lean toward vegetables for protein. Naturally, I'd go for meat since I love meat and they're much more filling than vegetables. When I eat, I usually consider how soon my next meal would be and then plan what to eat accordingly.

I should probably try to work on stabilizing my metabolism. Most of the time my metabolism is high but there are often times when they're not very high at all and that's usually when I start getting sick with something. Curse that friggin' mono. -.-

When I need it, a lot of protein and a little caffeine/Taurine/etc) goes a looong way. Something like a can of tuna fish and a 4oz coffee/1 can of Monsterdrink and I'm wired for a few days I've never needed a nap.