DescentBB

"And i say to myself, what a wonderful world...... shooo be dooo be dooo"

bash wrote:Of course not, no, America is obviously causing the terrorists to strike because we're shaking the hornets' nest.

Well, it's partially true. One person on the news put it rather succinctly that the Middle East is like a scab. We chose to start picking at it, and now we've found all of that festering bacteria inside. You don't really see the terrorists going after Canada, Japan, or even much of Europe as a whole because - up until the war on terror - none of them really took a proactive stance in the Middle East. The seeds were there, to be sure, but you didn't see people flying planes into Big Ben, Eiffel Tower, or the Akashi-Kaiko Bridge. In fact, Japan's problems were more-or-less domestic terrorists - similar to Timothy McVeigh here (remember him?).

Now, you could say it was smart because they were aware of the pus beneath the scab. Or, you could say it was dumb because eventually it would come to get them as well.

Because, suffice it to say, Bin Laden's war is almost a war of envy. He hates America, capitalism, and our free way of life. He hates our success in the world. And he would emerge from the sewers to prove this point to anyone who was also successful. Maybe if the stupid people in the Middle East would stop blowing themselves apart like barbarians, they too could have success.

But to me, it seems like a lost cause.

Sol, you are correct. To a certain extent we are exasperating the situation. But then again, it was al-Qaeda that declared war on us simply because we support Israel's right to exist. All the rest is smoke and mirrors, imo. To extend your analogy, yep, it's a pustule of tyrants and religious fanatics in the Middle East and some would say we should have left it alone. The soft bigotry of low expectations. But really, it would have had to be dealt with eventually and I'd just as soon it was brought to a head and lanced while all they're throwing our way are rocks, RPGs and the occassional mass murder of office workers instead of nuclear missiles. I believe every idealistic person knows freedom for all is the way the world is evolving. Democracy is freedom, and yet the only democratic nation in a sea of dictatorships, theocracies, monarchies and tribal crime syndicates is Israel. Small wonder we support her and won't look the other way (as some of our *friends* would prefer) while she is murdered. The supreme irony in the world today is that the conservatives are doing their utmost to create more liberals in the world while the liberals of the world protect and defend the fascists. It really is a confusingly upside-down time we live in.

Sergeant Thorne wrote:[...] This stuff is, for the most part, not angled to be truthful or informative, it's an attack made by someone who's very Anti-Bush. [...]

I very much appreciate you pointing this out (really, I do) - the world needs more objective thinking. But in politics (international especially), there is no neutral point of view, and objectivity is extremely hard to achieve. Thinking anything else is deluding yourself. So naturally, I choose to quote an article that supports my point of view, rather than opposing it.

I'm mostly atheist, which makes me consider references to any higher power at best meaningless, at worst evil propaganda intended to sway the masses, as it were. Ideally, I would see the world ruled with reason, instead of ruled in the name of a "God" that will never contradict, never oppose, and never speak its own view.

Saying you are doing "God's work" is a fine synonym to "let the ends justify the means, no matter what".

Oh, and please don't capitalise the "on" in Wolf on Air, everyone

WoA, read the full text of Bush's speech please:

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases ... 13-20.html

Thanks

edit: and if you're really that offended at references to God -- especially after reading them in context -- you need to grow thicker skin.

In the interest of fairness, I offer my regrets for doubting the European resolve and reaction to bin Laden's attempted seduction and fear-mongering. Kudos to our European friends for standing firm today. Please accept my apology.

Thanks for the link!

bash: we all distrust each other sometimes

Well, I've had a night's sleep since starting this... I'll reply to any further posts, but I'll try to avoid instigating more flames, promise

Did it ever occur to you that maybe Europe has a stake in America's current war against terrorism?

Al Qaeda (purportedly Bin Laden himself) just offered the entire continent of Europe a "truce." Maybe someone should inform the Europeans that offering a truce presupposes that Al Qaeda believes they are war with them.

Yawn! Wake up Index, the sun is rising.