Posted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 1:58 pm
Welcome back, BD!
Keep believing that. It will help your cause. One thing I have noticed is that your "cause" doesn't hold up very well at .com.woodchip wrote:It is a lie Bee.:
Bee
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Posted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 2:03 pm
Bee
Posted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 2:57 pm
Neither did yours.
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Posted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 3:05 pm
Funny how you ignore the content of the actual post.Bet51987 wrote:Keep believing that. It will help your cause. One thing I have noticed is that your "cause" doesn't hold up very well at .com.woodchip wrote:It is a lie Bee.:
Bee
Posted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 3:12 pm
Bee, something to think about:
Obama doesn't have a plan, at least not one that he will publish. He sites \"his plan\" when it suits him and can claim it has all sorts of magic components because no one has a copy of it to examine and verify his claims.
Claims he's made recently regarding the democrats plans have proven to be lies/falsehoods/erroneous/mistaken etc.
His own people released figures that proved he was way off in his comments about that.
So when you, or Joe Wilson, hear him say \" My plan won't cost anything, my plan won't insure illegal aliens, my plan won't eliminate private companies\" you have to consider his track record and his previous statements which definitely call into question his honesty on the subject.
I say \"you have to\" because I assume you want to have an honest understanding of where he is on the subject but of course if you only want him to win the political debate you don't have to...in fact if that is your goal I strongly suggest you don't consider those things and just keep on carrying his water on the subject.
So technically Wilson may be wrong, Obama didn't lie at the moment Wilson cried out....but we all know Wilson was being far more accurate and forthcoming in his claim of liar than Obama was in his word dance around the truth!
Obama doesn't have a plan, at least not one that he will publish. He sites \"his plan\" when it suits him and can claim it has all sorts of magic components because no one has a copy of it to examine and verify his claims.
Claims he's made recently regarding the democrats plans have proven to be lies/falsehoods/erroneous/mistaken etc.
His own people released figures that proved he was way off in his comments about that.
So when you, or Joe Wilson, hear him say \" My plan won't cost anything, my plan won't insure illegal aliens, my plan won't eliminate private companies\" you have to consider his track record and his previous statements which definitely call into question his honesty on the subject.
I say \"you have to\" because I assume you want to have an honest understanding of where he is on the subject but of course if you only want him to win the political debate you don't have to...in fact if that is your goal I strongly suggest you don't consider those things and just keep on carrying his water on the subject.
So technically Wilson may be wrong, Obama didn't lie at the moment Wilson cried out....but we all know Wilson was being far more accurate and forthcoming in his claim of liar than Obama was in his word dance around the truth!
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Posted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 6:29 pm
Since you are not refuting my post and the supplied link in any meaningful way, I guess it is safe to sayBet51987 wrote:Keep believing that. It will help your cause. One thing I have noticed is that your "cause" doesn't hold up very well at .com.woodchip wrote:It is a lie Bee.:
Bee
the information is correct and that Obama is in fact a liar if by the very least he artfully omits information to steer you down a rose tinted path.
Posted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 8:56 pm
Will Robinson...
Woodchip is making the claim that Obama lied about the illegal immigrants. Look at his post. It wasn't about Obama's plan or what it would cost but explicitly about illegal immigrants and that is what I based my comments on. I don't mind taking my hits when I have them coming but Woodchip is twisting words and posting a dead link to make Joe Wilson's comment truthful.
Joe Wilson was wrong and so is Woodchip.
@Spidey... You're right Spidey. I said leaving loaded guns out in the open where kids can play with them was irresponsible. I lost that argument to those who claimed it was ok. So you're right. I lost the argument.
Bee
Woodchip is making the claim that Obama lied about the illegal immigrants. Look at his post. It wasn't about Obama's plan or what it would cost but explicitly about illegal immigrants and that is what I based my comments on. I don't mind taking my hits when I have them coming but Woodchip is twisting words and posting a dead link to make Joe Wilson's comment truthful.
Joe Wilson was wrong and so is Woodchip.
@Spidey... You're right Spidey. I said leaving loaded guns out in the open where kids can play with them was irresponsible. I lost that argument to those who claimed it was ok. So you're right. I lost the argument.
Bee
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Posted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 9:21 pm
Joe Wilson was not that far from the truth. Consider the FACT that Mr. Obama has never ONCE offered up any printed material that he could point to and say, "You are wrong, America, here on page ### it says NO ILLEGAL ALIENS will be covered by MY socialist agenda."Bet51987 wrote:
Joe Wilson was wrong and so is Woodchip.
Bee
Posted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 10:32 pm
Obama said after the incident that the no illegal policy is good reason to make all the illegals legal....
So Wilson is correct in his concern that Obama's \"plan\" will have to cover illegal aliens but apparently they magically become legal so that makes Wilson wrong about the lie but dead on target about Obama's lying to us about his intentions. If you are comfortable with that OK.
So Wilson is correct in his concern that Obama's \"plan\" will have to cover illegal aliens but apparently they magically become legal so that makes Wilson wrong about the lie but dead on target about Obama's lying to us about his intentions. If you are comfortable with that OK.
Posted: Sat Sep 26, 2009 6:00 am
this whole argument is splitting hairs. he Lied plain and simple, if he has shouted out \"YOU LIE\" 30 second sooner or 30 seconds later would it have made a difference. he's a politician, they are all professional liars.
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Posted: Sat Sep 26, 2009 10:07 am
Not far from the truth is still not the truth. Keep thinking.AlphaDoG wrote:Joe Wilson was not that far from the truth.
Bee
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Posted: Sat Sep 26, 2009 10:27 am
That’s it….close this thread!CUDA wrote:this whole argument is splitting hairs. he Lied plain and simple, if he has shouted out "YOU LIE" 30 second sooner or 30 seconds later would it have made a difference. he's a politician, they are all professional liars.
Oh, Im sorry…was that too vague for everybody…what I meant was, that was the definitive statement, and there is no longer any more need for debate.
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Posted: Sat Sep 26, 2009 10:31 am
Well it was closer to the truth than the spam that Obama uttered.Bet51987 wrote:Not far from the truth is still not the truth. Keep thinking.AlphaDoG wrote:Joe Wilson was not that far from the truth.
Bee
Posted: Sat Sep 26, 2009 4:46 pm
Relevant part of H.R. 3200......
===============
HOWEVER, Section 246 lacks ANY verification requirements. In other words, unless we get some form of national I.D. for legal U.S. citizens, there's really no way to verify legal status and as a result, the system CAN be gamed. As we all know, to get a national I.D. system in this country would fly about as well as a lead balloon.
Obama may have groomed the truth during his speech, but Wilson was the FIRST JERK in history to breach decorum during a Congressional Presidential speech. If the Republicans had wanted to counter Obama, they should have done it properly during their rebuttal.
===============
================H.R. 3200, Sec. 246. No Federal Payment for Undocumented Aliens.
Nothing in this subtitle shall allow Federal payments for affordability credits on behalf of individuals who are not lawfully present in the United States.
HOWEVER, Section 246 lacks ANY verification requirements. In other words, unless we get some form of national I.D. for legal U.S. citizens, there's really no way to verify legal status and as a result, the system CAN be gamed. As we all know, to get a national I.D. system in this country would fly about as well as a lead balloon.
Obama may have groomed the truth during his speech, but Wilson was the FIRST JERK in history to breach decorum during a Congressional Presidential speech. If the Republicans had wanted to counter Obama, they should have done it properly during their rebuttal.
Posted: Sat Sep 26, 2009 7:40 pm
Joe Wilson should not have commented during Obama's speech.
But he wasn't wrong. If Obama had a written plan, maybe I'd believe him. As he doesn't, it's just a daydream.
But he wasn't wrong. If Obama had a written plan, maybe I'd believe him. As he doesn't, it's just a daydream.
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Posted: Sat Sep 26, 2009 8:34 pm
Yea!! What she said!! Because lying..er... grooming the truth... about major policy you are going to enforce on everyone at the point of a gun is in NO WAY as egregious as not using good manners when at the 'Good ol boys' club!!tunnelcat wrote:...
Obama may have groomed the truth during his speech, but Wilson was the FIRST JERK in history to breach decorum during a Congressional Presidential speech...
