peace activists??

[Heretic]

The question I would like to have answered is, will the oil spill in the gulf, that is about to get swept up in to the loop current, kill one third of the sea creatures? Which is the second trumpet of the 7 seal.

[Heretic]

\"In Revelations it says the water will turn to blood,\" said P.J. Hahn, director of coastal zone management for Louisiana's Plaquemines Parish. \"That's what it looks like out here — like the Gulf is bleeding. This is going to choke the life out of everything.\"

[flip]

No actually heretic it says :

\"The sea will turn to blood as a dead man\"

You took some away.

For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: And if anyone takes words away from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.

God does not confirm the words of man, ONLY His own words and I'd be real careful how you handle HIS words.

[Heretic]

Actually those are not my words nor the words of god those are the words of the person quoted by one P.J. Hahn, director of coastal zone management for Louisiana's Plaquemines Parish.
You should keep your judgments to your self or be guilty of the same.

[flip]

No actually you were agreeing with those words of another man, to make an erroneous point and the judgment is not one I made, just repeated.

[Heretic]

2 judgments in one day nice going. You know not what is in my heart nor mind.

[flip]

Ok sir maybe I'm mistaken, so just to clear up the confusion, exactly what point were you trying to make with your 2 posts?

[AlphaDoG]

How did this thread devolve into a discussion of end times?

There will be a fresh attempt to break the Israeli-Egyptian naval blockade of Gaza today by parties who may carry less of the jihadist's inclination to suicidal violence than the activists on the ship that became the scene of nine deaths.

If so, there will be a symbolic stand-off at sea as Israel exercises its legal and moral right to deny berthing to a ship - this one Irish and called the Rachel Corrie - whose masters are pursuing goals that would threaten the country's existence.

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/opinions/201 ... z0pzxQ2ZFq

[CUDA]

already done. without incident

Israeli forces seized a Gaza-bound vessel swiftly and without meeting resistance on Saturday, preventing it from breaking a naval blockade of the Hamas-ruled territory days after a similar effort turned bloody.

[Duper]

If you don't attack the people boarding your ship, there is normally a lack of incidence. ... given that the boarders are not already bent on DOING violence.

[Heretic]

Flip do you know what porphyrins are?

Porphyrins are a group of chemicals that help form many important substances in the body, including hemoglobin, the protein in red blood cells that carries oxygen in the blood.

Did you know that there are porphyrins found in crude oil?

The exact quote is

Revelation 16:3

And the second angel poured out his vial upon the sea; and it became as the blood of a dead man: and every living soul died in the sea.

[flip]

That's interesting. I do think it's important to keep the analogy intact. The word \"it\" is obviously a reference to the sea and the description is that \"it\" becomes like \"a dead mans blood\" so I feel the best way to decipher this verse is to find out the characteristics of a \"dead mans blood\". First thing that came to mind is that a \"dead mans blood\" no longer pumps through his veins or moves. It becomes stagnant.
I'm sure there are many more characteristics of a \"dead mans blood\" that I'm missing but I'm sure if we found those out we could even further our understanding of that verse.

[Will Robinson]

Flip do you know what porphyrins are?

Porphyrins are a group of chemicals that help form many important substances in the body, including hemoglobin, the protein in red blood cells that carries oxygen in the blood.

Did you know that there are porphyrins found in crude oil?

The exact quote is

Revelation 16:3

And the second angel poured out his vial upon the sea; and it became as the blood of a dead man: and every living soul died in the sea.

Does this mean fish have souls and god wants us to be vegans? Every time I order blackened grouper I'm a murderer?!? Or are these souls only those humans who happen to be swimming in the sea when the angel spills it's blood?

If this spill doesn't kill everything in the sea then did the angel just suffer a minor wound or maybe god changed his mind and stopped the angels bleeding.

I think you might be able to see how interpretations can lead the willing anywhere you want them to be lead.
I could run with your angels spilling blood theory and then upon the stopping of the leak (end of angel blood) I could start a whole new branch of Christianity that focuses on the day God called the angel back and lent his hand to BP and stopped the leak that no man could stop. BP is blessed with gods direct intervention it's oil is sacred... if you spill a few drops in the sun on the surface of the oil you can see the virgin Mary riding a Harley.
There will be new roadside chapels built at every BP station where you can go hear the new word of God and don't forget to drop your offering in the shiny 55 gallon oil drum on the way out the door....

I'm sorry if this seems like I'm mocking you, I don't mean any personal insult, but just how many interpretations have come and gone in the last 2010+ years?

[Heretic]

Nice question Will. I have no clue as to the souls of creatures or if they have souls.

In Acts 10:9-13

9On the morrow, as they went on their journey, and drew nigh unto the city, Peter went up upon the housetop to pray about the sixth hour:

10And he became very hungry, and would have eaten: but while they made ready, he fell into a trance,

11And saw heaven opened, and a certain vessel descending upon him, as it had been a great sheet knit at the four corners, and let down to the earth:

12Wherein were all manner of fourfooted beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air.

13And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill, and eat.

Flip scientists tell us that nature transmutes dead life into black gold by using little more than heat, pressure and time.

Now that is scientists but if you believe that God created the earth and if indeed oil is made up from dead life. Could not the population of the world before Noah's flood be that oil today? Some Christian scientist believe the population before the flood to be about 5 to 17 billion people this would appear to be a reasonable population, with an average of around 10 billion.

[flip]

Ok I give up because you keep seeming to miss the point and I'm trying to make the same point as Will just made. Your speculating and KEEP trying to push your \"oil theory\" and for exactly the same reasons that Will laid out I've resisted you. I keep saying lets try to figure this out by staying with what the word says and you keep throwing out interpretations. Will is exactly right, that is how weak willed and unknowledgeable people get taking advantage of because people are too flippant about what's wrote.

[Heretic]

And the judgments keep coming. I'm not pushing any thing Just thinking and asking questions out loud you can believe what you want I have no desire to convert any one on this board to any point of view. Besides I'm a Heretic any way. Just wondering when can a person theorize and not be judged?

[flip]

Ok, I've went at this from the wrong angle. As far as my intent was never to judge you and your correct that it is any ones right to theorize what these things mean. How else can we determine them for ourselves.

I do reject your theory based on these counts.
1. I don't see how oil spewing from the ground relates to what happens to blood after a body dies.
2. There is no way an oil spill can destroy 1/3 of the ships on the ocean.

Based on just those 2 things I think we should move on to what could destroy 1/3 of the ships on the ocean at one time.

[Behemoth]

flip bro, my statement is based on the fact Christ told us what would happen before the end, so even if we do not know the hour we see everything unfolding in front of us.
logically if you trust what God said, then what i said lines up perfectly.
The times themselves are already written down like a scroll, and when that time passes that part of the scroll is rolled up to be held against us later on.
Even the future has already occured, we just haven't read that part of time yet.

[flip]

I can agree with that and as Christians we can have personal discussions using those assumptions in that we both believe the same things. In a public forum though, where there is much disagreement and contention, for the sake of those that do not trust what God said, we must behave very circumspectly. So as not to subvert anyone that hears us and the only way we can do that with confidence is to adhere staunchly to the Word. Then it's not our opinion or assessment that gets rejected, but the very words of God.

[Heretic]

There you go this theory should have been dismissed on those grounds. Now can crude oil have an affect on ships that could lead to their destruction? What will the EPA do with sailing ships made of wood that soak up crude?

Revelation 8:8-9

8And the second angel sounded, and as it were a great mountain burning with fire was cast into the sea: and the third part of the sea became blood;

9And the third part of the creatures which were in the sea, and had life, died; and the third part of the ships were destroyed.

Have we seen the mountain of fire casted into the sea? I don't thinks so. One third of the sea creatures die from the water turning like blood of a dead man but later in Revelations all living souls in the sea die. So are there going to be two incidents to cause the sea to turn to blood?

Revelation 16:3

And the second angel poured out his vial upon the sea; and it became as the blood of a dead man: and every living soul died in the sea.

What could this burning mountain be? Comet, Asteroid, maybe as another points out to get the oil to stop spilling by using a nuclear warhead. I don't think the burning mountain was the DEEPWATER HORIZON. Now a comet or an asteroid or even a nuclear warhead might cause enough damage to destroy one third of the ships. Will these turn the water to blood?

[Duper]

AS we were not told by Jesus to preach the gospel to animals, i would say it doesn't matter. God IS big enough to take care of that.

But mostly it's a pernicious rhetorical question designed to \"put Christians in their place.\"

btw, heaven is big enough to hold all the souls of every animal that ever existed too; with room to spare.

[Nightshade]

This discussion is just...odd.

Turns from Turkey sponsored terrorists trying to destroy Israel's security from attack to whether or not animals have souls?

Well- one thing is for sure, animals have more sense than many \"religions\" do.

[flip]

First off let me say that we WILL NOT be staying in heaven. The bible says that this world will be burned over then recreated. We are coming back.

As far as the 2nd angels trumpet and the 2nd angels vial. These are 2 separate things to occur at different times, but by the same angel. When the trumpet blows, only a 1/3 is mentioned. I do believe it could be a comet. But now see there are 7 trumpets to be blown before the church is raptured, then after that these same angels pour the vials.

So far it DOES sound like a comet, so I theorize that the initial impact will destroy a 1/3 immediately, then maybe the impact also affects the tilt of the earth or even moves us that little bit closer to the sun:

And men were scorched with great heat, and blasphemed the name of God, which hath power over these plagues: and they repented not to give him glory

So to sum it up, initial impact, 1/3 destroyed,then because of the impact, over time the ocean will go stagnant and the closer proximity to the sun will cause an unbearable heat where eventually everything gets burned up. We will be here for the initial impact, but gone before the oceans currents stop.

Opinions?

[Duper]

Opinions?

..in 10,000 years this discussion isn't going to matter??

heh TB, from your POV, I can see where this would seem way out there. I used to think the same thing when I was a kid. (10 or 11 ish) Growing up in a traditional Lutheran church, I never heard much more than basic Christian doctrine from Matthew and the book of Romans.

Occasionally I would hear others in school or wherever talking about "end times" stuff, or about "speaking in tongues" and I used to think they were nuts...just weird. That has changed long since I really became a Christian. It's really hard to explain the change a person goes through. I was afraid of becoming some kind of zombie or will-less marionette, but it more like taking a really tarnished piece of silver and dipping it in Tarn-ex (spare the scientific chemical and physical implications and draw backs for now, it isn't relevant. ) You never quit being you. It's more like you were looking through smoked glass your whole life and suddenly someone cleaned it off for you.

and yeah, the path this thread took is rather puzzling. I had to go back and retrace it myself. And to your last statement, that is also true. Being religious does Not make you a Christian. There is a great book that I read when I was about 12 or 13: "How to be a Christian Without being Religious".

[Heretic]

2 Peter

3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

A large enough asteroid could cause the atmosphere to
burn off.

Some scientists believe that a large asteroid flaming through Earth's atmosphere would burn off much of the planet's protective ozone layer. The dust cloud would reflect ultraviolet radiation from the Sun for the initial post-impact period. When the dust finally settled, the ultraviolet radiation would be at least double what it was before the collision, due to the ozone depletion. The high radiation levels could cause mutations and cancer.

http://www.riverdeep.net/current/2001/1 ... oids.jhtml

[Duper]

heh Heretic.

Don't forget the Yucatan impact. We seemed to have faired pretty well with our atmosphere intact after that.

This planet is more resilient than most think. Pick up the latest copy of National Geographic with Mount St. Helens. The national park has been allowed to heal on its own without our help. (minus someone stocking Spirit lake with rainbow trout .. which are monstrous) It has surprised everyone how fast it has bounced back.

Like politics, science has its propaganda and its alarmists and folks who think they have a handle on what's going on, but frequently miss the mark like a Northwest meteorologist!

[flip]

Nice find Heretic. Another noncontradicting statement found elsewhere in the bible. (lol I love making words up )

Sure it sounds foolish and weird, but so far the logic is sound too. The only think that is lacking is the belief in God, and that's why I'm not in the habit of making excuses.

[Heretic]

The Chicxulub impact is widely believed to have triggered a mass dinosaur die-off, either through a global firestorm or through massive long-term environmental changes.

[Duper]

my POINT is that we are not a lifeless space rock.

WHY is that.

[Spidey]

“Because nature finds a way”?

[flip]

Nature must have a good sense of direction.

[Duper]

“Because nature finds a way”?

well, that doesn't pan out in light of earlier counter points as "nature" would have burned off the atmosphere, killing everything.

I understand what you meant though. And I actually alluded to that in my example of Mt. St. Helens.

[Spidey]

The atmosphere burning off, was only a wild guess, just as testing the first atomic bomb, people thought the same thing.

[Duper]

yup... which kinda makes you wonder at scientists some times.

[flip]

So someone says in there heart:
\"Lets say there is a God, Which one do I pick \"

And I say:
\"Pick the one that told the ending from the beginning\"