DescentBB

anyone else catch the 'sexually naive adolescent' part in the story?

c'mon.. there's no such thing. LOL.

actually, you are wrong. The immune response to a vaccine is not the same as the natural immunity incurred through natural contact with the virus or other pathogen.

mmmm no. the whole point of a vaccine is to trigger an immune response to a certain (weakened) viral strain, so the body can identify and eliminate a full strength infection faster than if there was no vaccine involved.

Slick, vaccines do trigger the same biological immune response that a natural virus would; in fact, several vaccines are made from weakened or "killed" forms of the original virus. It's true that certain vaccines do require boosters to achieve full immunological "memory" against the virus in question; this seems to be the case with the varicella (chickenpox) vaccine, which is why boosters are now administered.

And as far as the "normal childhood disease" argument goes, keep in mind that everyone once considered measles and mumps to fall under that category as well. I don't see anyone saying that we shouldn't be giving kids MMR shots, though.

My understanding of vaccines are as Ferno said. A weaker strain of the virus is introduced, causing the immune system to create anti-bodies of the right shape, size and structure . Then when the system is actually invaded by a full strength virus, there are already these anti-bodies in circulation to make an immediate response and prevent any extended stay of the virus.

Trust me, I understand both the principle behind vaccination and the makeup of the vaccines. As I stated,
many are utter lifesavers and have helped the population. There is, however, a LOT of literature, if anyone has access to real Biology or Biochemistry or Medical journals, explaining the subtle difference in the nature of the immune response involved, viz a viz natural immunity. I don't have the time to go into the various aspects of the immune response, but suffice it to say it is quite complex. As I stated, many vaccines are lifesavers and essential to a healthy society. Others, are sort of dicey and somewhat unproven in terms of effectiveness. HPV is one of the latter, along with Chicken Pox and several batches of influenza vaccines. As with most medical practice, there are risks and benefits that can and should be weighed. I guess my core point is to leave such debate to professionals, not politicians or other untrained types.


Slick(B.S. Biochemistry M.S. Biology(Biochem/Virology)

I've just had opportunity to deal with the "professionals" for a couple days. No thanks. Doctors are like car mechanics. Some being more astute than the others, but all of them working for insurance companies. I bet you won't find another disillusioned group at this point.

flip wrote:I've just had opportunity to deal with the "professionals" for a couple days. No thanks. Doctors are like car mechanics. Some being more astute than the others, but all of them working for insurance companies

ok, next time you need open-heart surgery or orthopedic work, let your mechanic do the job.

. I bet you won't find another disillusioned group at this point.

heck, I can't even find a comprehensible sentence in this mess-o-words.

flip wrote:I've just had opportunity to deal with the "professionals" for a couple days. No thanks. Doctors are like car mechanics. Some being more astute than the others, but all of them working for insurance companies. I bet you won't find another disillusioned group at this point.

actually....

car mechanics are nowhere near doctors. For starters, the two careers are diametrically opposed, and doctors need almost ten years of training to BECOME doctors. not so much with mechanics.

Two, mechanics only work for their higher-ups. not insurance companies.

And three.. I don't think I've seen a worse analogy in my life.

Ferno wrote:car mechanics are nowhere near doctors. For starters, the two careers are diametrically opposed, and doctors need almost ten years of training to BECOME doctors. not so much with mechanics.

I don't know. Cars are getting so complex now, it almost takes an engineering degree to fix one.

The analogy was actually about some being better than others.

Spidey wrote:The analogy was actually about some being better than others.

Oh I know that. I was trying to defend mechanics. But come to think of it, I've met a few mechanics that were ten times smarter than a few of the doctors that I've had the pleasure of dealing with.

I know they can cut on you, even with a fair amount of success, but aside from that, your screwed. They at best can tell you what's wrong with you, at best because I imagine a great deal fail at that too, and hopefully treat your disease. I hear of very few cures. And Spidey's right, it was partly that and partly about their interests being divided and how that fits into their diagnoses and treatment. A good mechanic should have a 100% success rate

I'm not gonna call you an idiot ferno, it would be unkind. Instead i'll point out the obvious.
1. Asked and answered.
2.Insurance money pays the claims for the work that mechanics do.
3.SInce you didnt understand fully, I'm gonna let you slide.

flip wrote:I'm not gonna call you an idiot ferno, it would be unkind. Instead i'll point out the obvious.
1. Asked and answered.
2.Insurance money pays the claims for the work that mechanics do.
3.SInce you didnt understand fully, I'm gonna let you slide.

1: nope.

2: name one mechanical shop that uses insurance claims.

3: trying to understand a horrible analogy is somehow my fault?

a·nal·o·gy

noun /əˈnaləjē/ 
analogies, plural

A comparison between two things, typically on the basis of their structure and for the purpose of explanation or clarification
- an analogy between the workings of nature and those of human societies
- he interprets logical functions by analogy with machines

A correspondence or partial similarity
- the syndrome is called deep dysgraphia because of its analogy to deep dyslexia

A thing that is comparable to something else in significant respects
- works of art were seen as an analogy for works of nature


next time, try to understand something before you use it.

For those hollering "due dilligence", check the source links at the bottom of the aritcle.

The whole article

SANE Vax Inc. Letter to FDA Requesting Investigation into Gardasil Contamination

Policy on the use of Bio-hazardous Agents and Recombinant DNA in Research and Teaching Laboratories at the University of North Carolina at Greensboro

Gardasil™ Patient Product Insert

EMEA Scientific Discussion on Gardasil

Gardasil Contaminants by Country

VAERS Data


and you can tunnel down further once you are in there. It's 2 am, I don't have the time right now.

Hmm, yeah NM, your an idiot. An idiot that is presuming to tell me what I meant. Hey I got a suggestion, obviously I had a point, next time if you don't quite get it, you should just ask for clarification instead of trying like hell to be a monkey boy.

Edit: I was gonna put a smiley here but I'm not a pretentious little ★■◆●. I mean what I say.

Ferno wrote:2: name one mechanical shop that uses insurance claims.

ALL new car dealerships

tunnelcat wrote:

Ferno wrote:car mechanics are nowhere near doctors. For starters, the two careers are diametrically opposed, and doctors need almost ten years of training to BECOME doctors. not so much with mechanics.

I don't know. Cars are getting so complex now, it almost takes an engineering degree to fix one.

Agreed.
and while treatments on the human body changes, the body it self stays constant. while the treatment and technology changes on automobiles every year. Also, Although a Dr might require 10 years to become a Dr (my Son-in-law is in Med school now) any certified Mechanic goes to school at least once a year to learn new skills about his craft just to keep up with that changing Tech. so he is effectually in school all his life. and it not uncommon for a mechanic to personally buy tens of thousands of dollars in new tools just to be able to work his craft. where unlike a doctor most of that diagnostic equipment is provided by the hospital.

Doctors and mechanics also diagnose unseen problems with varying success rates depending on the ability of the individual doctor or mechanic and the tools available to them. Which also differs from doctor and mechanic to doctor and mechanic. I write for the lowest common denominator

I guess what i'm saying is don't put so much trust in this as this guy does "Slick(B.S. Biochemistry M.S. Biology(Biochem/Virology)"
At best, you get someone that is ingenious and innovative, at worst you get a glorified mechanic.

CUDA wrote:

Ferno wrote:2: name one mechanical shop that uses insurance claims.

ALL new car dealerships

Not quite. They only work with the insurance company when they deal with damage to the bodyshell and components caused by a collision. For work on the engine, transmission, and other mechanical components, they still expect you to pay the bill. Insurance is not involved in that case.


oh and flip? don't accuse me of being the monkeyboy when you start reaching down and start flinging your own poop at people.

I can't help your powers of discernment are lacking. I would almost bet that yours are not either, but I'm not a contentious little ★■◆● either

flip.. just stop. you're not helping yourself.

lOL ok Uncle

OK guys, we've all had our fun. Time to drop the flaming now.

Yeah me, I don't just blindly trust doctors. Alot of them remind me of car mechanics.

Duper wrote:For those hollering "due dilligence", check the source links at the bottom of the aritcle.

The whole article

SANE Vax Inc. Letter to FDA Requesting Investigation into Gardasil Contamination

Policy on the use of Bio-hazardous Agents and Recombinant DNA in Research and Teaching Laboratories at the University of North Carolina at Greensboro

Gardasil™ Patient Product Insert

EMEA Scientific Discussion on Gardasil

Gardasil Contaminants by Country

VAERS Data


and you can tunnel down further once you are in there. It's 2 am, I don't have the time right now.

Oh great, frankenvaccines! They're genetic hacking! They've thought of another way to kill us off while trying to heal us. Right smack up against the law of unintended consequences.

Like those doctors always like to say, don't self diagnose and Google your ills. Trust us implicitly. We're the professionals and we know what we're doing and we'll make you better.

Here's another good one. Sounds like the apple lobby got to the FDA and more than a few doctors on this one. While they all bicker over semantics, we get sick.

http://www.latimes.com/health/boostersh ... 0799.story

I'm kind of on OZ's side here. Other countries don't have as stringent of regulations over the use of banned pesticides as the U.S. does. So who's in a position to say that apples from a foreign country don't happen to contain more arsenic and aren't making their way into kid's apple juice? I'll bet, on average, foreign fruits and vegetables tend to be more tainted with banned pesticides no matter how much they inspect in quality and say the stuff is safe to consume. How many of you eat Tilapia fish and cooked shrimp from the supermarket? I wouldn't touch the stuff with a ten foot pole now. It's all raised on farms in China, which use notoriously dirty and polluted water to raise their product.

I like it

Ferno wrote:

CUDA wrote:

Ferno wrote:2: name one mechanical shop that uses insurance claims.

ALL new car dealerships

Not quite. They only work with the insurance company when they deal with damage to the bodyshell and components caused by a collision. For work on the engine, transmission, and other mechanical components, they still expect you to pay the bill. Insurance is not involved in that case.

your wrong.
I work at a dealership in the body shop. and have worked in dealerships for almost 30 years. my daughter worked in the same dealership I do now for 7 years, she worked in the Service department processing those claims. when someone purchases a car new or used, F&I or Finance will offer you a "maintenance plan" (insurance) for an additional charge. this covers things that are not covered by a standard warranty. or on cars that are no longer under warranty. she would routinely submit 10-15 claims for process every day. EVERY new car dealership offers this option.

flip wrote:Doctors and mechanics also diagnose unseen problems with varying success rates depending on the ability of the individual doctor or mechanic and the tools available to them. Which also differs from doctor and mechanic to doctor and mechanic. I write for the lowest common denominator

It would be nice if we came with a "check engine light" and could be plugged into a diagnostic reader..

Wait.. I think Sony is working on that....

CUDA wrote:your wrong.
I work at a dealership in the body shop. and have worked in dealerships for almost 30 years. my daughter worked in the same dealership I do now for 7 years, she worked in the Service department processing those claims. when someone purchases a car new or used, F&I or Finance will offer you a "maintenance plan" (insurance) for an additional charge. this covers things that are not covered by a standard warranty. or on cars that are no longer under warranty. she would routinely submit 10-15 claims for process every day. EVERY new car dealership offers this option.

apparently shops in your area operate differently than they do in mine.

Duper wrote:

flip wrote:Doctors and mechanics also diagnose unseen problems with varying success rates depending on the ability of the individual doctor or mechanic and the tools available to them. Which also differs from doctor and mechanic to doctor and mechanic. I write for the lowest common denominator

It would be nice if we came with a "check engine light" and could be plugged into a diagnostic reader..

Wait.. I think Sony is working on that....

I second that! But would YOU want some present day doctor to have the ability to reprogram you, all by connecting up a scanner to your OBD port? If the human body had such a feature that is.

I'm thinking more along the lines of something like in Star Trek, where they wave a wand over you and bingo, they diagnose all your ills without all the muss and fuss.

Ever seen the movie Existenz William DeFoe installs a bioport into Jude Law so Jude law can play this game with Jennifer Jason Leigh. If they were to install one I hope they don't do it that way.

LOL those bastards better hope they don't try Heretic. I've been known to resist arrest and fleeing and attempting to elude with mixed success

DISCLAIMER: I'm old and domesticated now

♪♫Bad boys Whatcha want, watcha want Whatcha gonna do When Sheriff John Brown come for you.♫♪
♫♪ I'm a gonna run and hide and try to get outside. When Sheriff John Brown comes a looking for me.♪♫

Heretic wrote:Ever seen the movie Existenz William DeFoe installs a bioport into Jude Law so Jude law can play this game with Jennifer Jason Leigh. If they were to install one I hope they don't do it that way.

Ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww!

tunnelcat wrote:Oh great, frankenvaccines! They're genetic hacking! They've thought of another way to kill us off while trying to heal us. Right smack up against the law of unintended consequences.

Like those doctors always like to say, don't self diagnose and Google your ills. Trust us implicitly. We're the professionals and we know what we're doing and we'll make you better.

Duper/tunnelcat, all of those sources are either self-generated by the website in question, or else have absolutely nothing to do with the specific claim being made. In fact, the only link I see that could potentially be from a relevant outside source is conveniently dead.

Also, Dr. Oz is spewing bull★■◆● on this one.

Online gamers have achieved a feat beyond the realm of Second Life or Dungeons and Dragons: they have deciphered the structure of an enzyme of an AIDS-like virus that had thwarted scientists for a decade.

http://games.yahoo.com/blogs/plugged-in ... 20724.html

Seems no amount of education equals what you can learn while playing Descent

Here is some interesting info related to the subject of this thread.

http://healthimpactnews.com/2011/cdc-ca ... -vaccines/

Topics in the above link.

Remembering the 2008 swine flu hoax...

CDC lies about mercury in vaccines...

Ten billion and asking for more...

David and Goliath...

Sources for this article include:

Bolen Reports CDC thimerosal cover up part 1 http://www.bolenreport.com/Geier/fo…

Bolen reports CDC thimerosal cover up part 2 http://www.bolenreport.com/Geier/fo…

CBS 2008 CDC Swine flu investigation http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009…

Senator Tom Coburn’s CDC Off Center report http://coburn.senate.gov/public/ind…

Autism A.L.A.R.M. http://www.ewg.org/files/AutismAlar…
Read the Full Article Here: http://www.naturalnews.com/033902_CDC_vaccines.html

Are these reliable sources?

Anyway, something that deserves consideration.

Proponents of the alleged link between vaccines and autism charge that vaccines contain mercury, which in large enough doses, kills cells and causes neurological damage. What some vaccines contain is actually not plain mercury, but the preservative Thimerosal. Thimerosal's main active ingredient is an organic version of mercury called Ethylmercury. Ethylmercury is naturally expelled from the body quickly. Methylmercury, on the other hand, is not. It stays in the body. High doses of methylmercury will cause physiological damage. However, Ethylmercury and Methylmercury are not the same thing, despite the similar names. Methylmercury is not present in Thimerosal. In short, vaccines preserved with Thimerosal do not even contain the type of mercury that activists say is dangerous. And even if they did, the amount would be too small to be considered a risk.

http://skeptoid.com/episodes/4055

In 2010, Skeptoid won the prestigious Parsec Award for "Best Fact Behind the Fiction" podcast, and was recognized by the Independent Investigations Group (IIG) for "Outstanding Contribution to Science and Skepticism".

Vulcan, those are HORRIBLE sources because they're extremely misleading. Please, for your sanity and mine... never use them again.

Remembering the 2008 swine flu hoax...

"Hoax" my ass. An epidemic not being as destructive as it could have been is a piece of good luck, not fraud.

And yeah, what Ferno said about those other links. The scientific journal in England that originally published the autism paper that got scores of idiot parents up in arms officially retracted it a couple of years ago, which is an extremely rare action. It was that flawed of a study.