DescentBB

I think it's the first time anyone's heard it exactly like that.

Maybe, TG, as you and your progeny continue to evolve into chair-dwellers who motor about from drive-thru to drive-thru, SCIENCE will find a way to modify your DNA by splicing DNA from some freaky source in order to get rid of those left-over fat-storing capabilities. Just don't miss a meal, or there goes the family line!

What we haven't evolved to deal with yet is how do our hunter gatherer bodies use that high fat, high carb and high sugar foods we now have easy access to. We no longer have to hunt for it, work to grow it or even labor to cook it. We run to the store, toss it into the microwave, sit back on our butts and pig out with ease and ol' evolution just hasn't let our bodies catch up with that fact yet.

Well, if your body hasn’t evolved…then evolve your eating habits….doh.

Spidey wrote:Wow that’s an excuse for fat people that I never heard before, and I have heard a lot of them.

It's not an "excuse" for anything...it's the basic biology behind why obesity is such an issue in affluent societies. The fact that we even have to take steps to watch our weight in the first place, and people's subsequent struggles to do so, comes down to our bodies being hard-wired to stash away any extra calories they can get their hands on. Ever wonder why fatty, high-calorie foods seem so good? Bam. I'm fairly surprised you've never heard anyone explain it in these terms...it's not exactly a brand-new idea.

And sarcasm aside, that's not so far-fetched, Thorne. We could deal with a large number of medical conditions by being able to deactivate or swap out certain genes selectively, including some of the most debilitating diseases out there. We're not at that point yet, but within a few decades, I think we'll see those sorts of treatments being employed, which is awesome.

Your body stores what it doesn’t use…that’s called efficiency, so after you evolve this great new body that allows you to eat everything you want, because it discards what it doesn’t use…what do you think is going to happen, when the first food shortage hits?

...do you really think this is some sort of all-or-nothing proposal? The idea is to tone down the body's propensity for hoarding extra calories like crazy, not to make it so that fat cells flat-out stop doing their jobs. Sheesh.

I think it's a stretch to say this has anything to do with "evolution." Isn't it just more likely that people here are well-fed and work less=weight gain? This is really basic stuff. You feed atom's more atom's, as the body breaks down the food it is converted into energy or stored if it is not used right away. The laws of physics demands it has to become something right? To mention the word evolution when discussing diet is disingenious and just making a grab. Evolution describes mutated changes in appearance.

Top Gun wrote:...do you really think this is some sort of all-or-nothing proposal? The idea is to tone down the body's propensity for hoarding extra calories like crazy, not to make it so that fat cells flat-out stop doing their jobs. Sheesh.

Evolution has already provided a mechanism for that…it’s called “activity” where an active body usually doesn’t go into “save every calorie” mode when active.

If you eat right and exercise, the body’s metabolic rate adjusts to burn most of the calories consumed, and maintains a proper weight.

It’s only when your body thinks it’s going to starve that it goes into storage mode and reduces the metabolic rate.

I was a fitness freak for almost 30 years. None of your excuses…errr theories explain all of the normal weight people. And there was already a working theory regarding weight gain long before yours…it is called the…eat too much and get fat theory.

Hey the choice is yours….

1. Eat right and maintain a modicum of activity, and let your natural systems regulate your weight.
2. Sit on the couch, throw Doritos at your face, and blame evolution for your fat ass.


The choice is yours.

Spidey wrote:1. Eat right and maintain a modicum of activity, and let you natural systems regulate your weight.
2. Sit on the couch, throw Doritos at your face, and blame evolution for your fat ass.


The choice is yours.

ROFL!

Where's the like button!

This is the best thread I've read all week.

*facepalm*

Holy ★■◆●, people. This is either willful misreading, or willful ignorance. Either way, it's ★■◆●ing ridiculous.

Read. What. I Posted. I did not give an excuse. I did not say that people can cop out of eating right and exercising. What I said was that this is WHY our bodies have a tendency to hoard calories, because doing so was beneficial for humans for hundreds of thousands of years, and only became actively harmful in the last few hundred years. Even if you're an extremely healthy person, your body STILL has the natural tendency to store up any excess calories as fat: you're actively fighting off that tendency by burning off those extra calories as energy before they're able to be stored, and by limiting your caloric intake in the first place. Knowing that this is the reason behind the need to exercise and eat right to avoid obesity in no way lessens that need.

Sweet Jesus...if anyone wants to know why this folder has gone to complete ★■◆●, I can just point them to this thread as Exhibit A. Get a clue people.

Now, for anyone in this thread who actually has two or more neurons firing in their heads, take a look at this. A pretty cool breakthrough in learning about the mechanism that creates new fat cells, and from an undergrad at my alma mater, no less.

Storing up fat is still beneficial to humans, only when it gets out of hand, does it become harmful…and there already is a cure for obesity.

Still haven’t explained all of those normal weight people.

Ask someone in Japan what makes you fat.

EDIT:
.........................................

Well, anyway what I think this boils down to is the confusion between “potential” and “cause”.

What TG describes is the potential to get fat, and what I’m trying to point out is the cause for being fat.

And, now I’m going to leave it at that.

Spidey wrote:Still haven’t explained all of those normal weight people.

Good grief, this is ridiculous.

• Not all human metabolisms are as efficient/inefficient as another's.
  
  Humans have moved all around the world, leaving their ancestral homelands and all the environmental and dietary variables, then replaced them with new, possibly harmful, possibly beneficial ones.
  
  Socioeconomic factors play a role on how easy it is or hard it is gain or loose weight.
  
  Stress, education, and cultural pressures contribute to healthy/unhealthy weight.
  
  In any given society, some people will need to work harder to gain/loose weight than others. You'll always have healthy weight people and unhealthy weight people do different degrees.
  
  ...and many other factors.

Is this so g0ddamn hard to understand? Jesus, the stupidity here... It's like people are picking arguments just to argue without even thinking about what they are saying.

I think the argument was if they could accurately be labeled "evolutionary leftovers" or like you just described. Jeez, settle down some.

Ohhhh... I suspect there is some evolution denial going on here. Ok, I'll exit since I have nothing to say to the doubters.

Oh well, I guess I'll never know what "evolutionary leftovers" really means.

vision wrote:Ohhhh... I suspect there is some evolution denial going on here. Ok, I'll exit since I have nothing to say to the doubters.

Or maybe you could just throw another tantrum, those always get the point across, and raise that bar.

flip wrote:Oh well, I guess I'll never know what "evolutionary leftovers" really means.

...you mean the thing I just explained to you?

ya gotta love it.

a thread about weight loss turns into a pissing match about evolution. Only on the DBB

What I said was that this is WHY our bodies have a tendency to hoard calories, because doing so was beneficial for humans for hundreds of thousands of years, and only became actively harmful in the last few hundred years. Even if you're an extremely healthy person, your body STILL has the natural tendency to store up any excess calories as fat: you're actively fighting off that tendency by burning off those extra calories as energy before they're able to be stored, and by limiting your caloric intake in the first place.

Might as well
How does this go to support the theory of evolution and I'm not 100% against evolution of some form? I don't believe in any form of speciation but it's obvious life can adapt to it's surroundings. I just don't see how you can make the connection here.

CUDA wrote:ya gotta love it.

a thread about weight loss turns into a pissing match about evolution. Only on the DBB

Evolution does matter CUDA. We didn't start out in the beginning with potato chips, French Fries, Cheetos, Twinkies and donuts growing on trees, so our bodies haven't yet adapted to NOT EAT THAT FATTENING, ALIEN STUFF when it's put right into our faces everyday with all it's glorious, tantalizing yumminess. Must.......resist......sugar......and......fat!

Evolution also gave you a big brain, to help you with such problems.

Example:

A few years back (actually quite a few) it was learned that the signals to stop eating that the gut sends to the brain, is not based on how much you eat, but how long you have been eating.

Think that big brain of yours can figure out a way to use that info to help control weight?

The whole idea that this is the result of evolution, and that we haven't yet evolved to meet the challenges of junk food and a lack of physical activity is a sick idea. It's foolish to start, but it allows you to dismiss the notion that how you live is not necessarily the way human beings were meant to live--there's no basis for physical normality, so now you want to ★■◆● with the human body and God only knows where you will end up, but it won't be that place in your imagination, with you being made into a super being by SCIENCE. You would do infinitely better to take a cue from the way the human body WORKS, period, and eat right, get enough sleep, get enough activity, ...

EDIT: My dad recommends that you read a book titled "The Fat Resistance Diet".

The truth is that man has fucked with what we eat so much that our body is not dealing with it correctly in many ways, but if you blame it on evolution and start ripping ★■◆● out under the hood (genetically speaking) then you'll be in a very ugly place without having opportunity to discover this.

tunnelcat wrote:

CUDA wrote:ya gotta love it.

a thread about weight loss turns into a pissing match about evolution. Only on the DBB

Evolution does matter CUDA. We didn't start out in the beginning with potato chips, French Fries, Cheetos, Twinkies and donuts growing on trees, so our bodies haven't yet adapted to NOT EAT THAT FATTENING, ALIEN STUFF when it's put right into our faces everyday with all it's glorious, tantalizing yumminess. Must.......resist......sugar......and......fat!

here let me help you with the Evolution of that problem.

DON'T EAT THAT CRAP

there now that that's solved

Sergeant Thorne wrote:The whole idea that this is the result of evolution, and that we haven't yet evolved to meet the challenges of junk food and a lack of physical activity is a sick idea. It's foolish to start, but it allows you to dismiss the notion that how you live is not necessarily the way human beings were meant to live--there's no basis for physical normality, so now you want to ★■◆● with the human body and God only knows where you will end up, but it won't be that place in your imagination, with you being made into a super being by SCIENCE. You would do infinitely better to take a cue from the way the human body WORKS, period, and eat right, get enough sleep, get enough activity, ...

Man I love it when people don't ★■◆●ing read what I write. It's awesome!

(I'm honestly curious, though...have you ever picked up a high-school-level biology text?)

CUDA wrote:here let me help you with the Evolution of that problem.

DON'T EAT THAT CRAP

there now that that's solved

You call me when someone genetically engineers a celery stick to taste like a donut, and I will be the first guy in line to test it.

Excuse me for cutting to the heart of the matter without caring for the fluff you dressed it up with, TG.

(I dare you to point out otherwise)

Sergeant Thorne wrote:Excuse me for cutting to the heart of the matter without caring for the fluff you dressed it up with, TG.

(I dare you to point out otherwise)

All you did there was completely (maybe deliberately) ignore my last two or three posts...I can't make my point any clearer. You're also demonstrating your usual general ignorance of technical matters, which is why I asked the question about your overall experience in biology. Just going to ignore that one?

I don't need to be a biology student to know your evolution-aided-obesity theory is ignorant. For all the good that knowledge is doing you here, yes I'll ignore it when you attempt to hold it over my head.

Perhaps not a biology student, but employing basic reading comprehension would let you know that I've already more than explained my point. There's not even an argument to be had, and there never was in the first place.

CUDA wrote:ya gotta love it.

a thread about weight loss turns into a pissing match about evolution. Only on the DBB

please tell us you weren't suprised.

Sergeant Thorne wrote:I don't need to be a biology student to know your evolution-aided-obesity theory is ignorant. For all the good that knowledge is doing you here, yes I'll ignore it when you attempt to hold it over my head.

To dismiss theorys as "ignorant", from your low standpoint of a layman... is rather arrogant and self-important of you.

[warning]
Okay, folks. Debate about obesity as an evolutionary result, fine... but drop the personal shots.
[/warning]

Ferno wrote:

CUDA wrote:ya gotta love it.

a thread about weight loss turns into a pissing match about evolution. Only on the DBB

please tell us you weren't suprised.

well after 11 years on this board not a lot surprises me anymore.

If they drop the insults and "cockslaps" they no longer have an argument

Genetically engineer a celery stick to taste like a donut, and I'll be right there to chocolate glaze it.

I think TG's suggestion has merit. My taste buds would enjoy it.

Foil wrote:

roid wrote:

Sergeant Thorne wrote:I don't need to be a biology student to know your evolution-aided-obesity theory is ignorant. For all the good that knowledge is doing you here, yes I'll ignore it when you attempt to hold it over my head.

To dismiss theorys as "ignorant", from your low standpoint of a layman... is rather arrogant and self-important of you.

[warning]
Okay, folks. Debate about obesity as an evolutionary result, fine... but drop the personal shots.
[/warning]

(if i assume that was directed at me)
Sorry, i'm just not really sure howto respond to the level of disrespect for science i'm seeing.

If i tried to tell everyone that a VERY well established science (ie: evolution) was "ignorant", all while advertising that i knew next-to-nothing about the subject myself, i'd expect someone to tell me i was being arrogant and self-important (actually i'd expect to be told much more than that, but this isn't an equal playing field so restraint and some patience is understandably in order). As a simple cause and effect. Like: "hey man your fly is down".
It's absolutely nothing personal.

Please don't protect people from perfectly reasonable & well thought out responses to nonsense statements.

passive aggressive roid wrote:Please don't protect people from perfectly reasonable & well thought out responses to nonsense statements.

I'll step in here, as a biased party. Frankly, a reasonable & well thought out response might have taken the form of targeting the reasons I put forth for his theory being way out, rather than focusing on my person. I'll take personal shots with the best of them, but don't pretend like it wasn't just because you feel it was warranted.

If I have to be arrogant and self-important to hold a view, based on my experience and perceptions, contrary to someone with a formal, higher education (who by the way is branching out from science into theory, here--I'm certain of that), then so be it. I will be arrogant and self-important enough to say he's wrong. Because that's how I roll.

Sergeant Thorne wrote:If I have to be arrogant and self-important to hold a view, based on my experience and perceptions, contrary to someone with a formal, higher education (who by the way is branching out from science into theory, here--I'm certain of that), then so be it. I will be arrogant and self-important enough to say he's wrong. Because that's how I roll.

That's cool. Because the beauty of science is that it doesn't care what anyone believes to be true. And unless your "personal experience" was done in a lab under controlled conditions it's no match for science.

I agree with roid. The disrespect of science is, in my opinion, disgusting. I see a lot of political arguments on this forum, but the division between parties is nothing compared to the damage incurred by willful ignorance of science in the United States.

To beat a dead horse, evolution isn't some wacky new fringe science theory. If you don't agree, you are wrong. I'm sorry if the truth hurts.

Well all of that is well and good, but when evolution becomes the cause for being overweight, instead of…overeating...then people must speak up.

Yes…the body stores the food that it doesn’t use, what else would it do? Throw it away?

And what is not properly stated here is the body actually has more than one metabolic mode, all the result of “evolution”.

So “hoard all the calories” is only one of them.

There is a fine line between a “theory” and an “excuse”, depending on how it’s used in any given context.