DescentBB

flip wrote:Masons Who needs em?

anyone with a busted chimney, or needing sidewalk repair?

callmeslick wrote:.. ..Hell, I think we ought to make Medicare the single US healthcare payer from cradle to grave, as it is a very cost-effective way to address the situation for virtually all Americans. As for Social Security, study after study has shown that merely indexing the top end income for which SS taxes are collected addresses that solvency issue forever.

Hmmm, that would be in the budget that is, uh, is.....uh, the one introduced by....uh...

I said a long time we don't need Obamacare we already have the system in place if you want government to fund health care but that isn't what Obama did is it?
Also, why go after "top end" " income" as the source. The real rich people don't earn "income" that SS is deducted from they have their wealth delivered through other vehicles. Check your own tax return for a reference....If you want to tap into the "top" you need to include the top.

Will Robinson wrote:I said a long time we don't need Obamacare we already have the system in place if you want government to fund health care but that isn't what Obama did is it?

oh, come on.....don't you think that would've been the goal if they thought the GOP wouldn't filibuster it in the Senate?

Also, why go after "top end" " income" as the source. The real rich people don't earn "income" that SS is deducted from they have their wealth delivered through other vehicles. Check your own tax return for a reference....If you want to tap into the "top" you need to include the top.

Not really. Social security is for folks who worked, otherwise(as you suggest, checking with my paperwork, and more to the point, knowing the situation with folks I know with entirely inherited income)they only receive a nominal amount of benefits. Those could be eliminated, to my mind, as well. If you don't pay in, you don't need to get any benefits if your net worth is sufficient to yield more than, say, $50,000 per year income on annuities and dividends.

Lol! To be one ask one

EDIT: You know, i honestly dont have anything against Mason's in general. It's that subversive element that has crept in that George Washington and JFK warned about I'm against.

callmeslick wrote:

Will Robinson wrote:I said a long time we don't need Obamacare we already have the system in place if you want government to fund health care but that isn't what Obama did is it?

oh, come on.....don't you think that would've been the goal if they thought the GOP wouldn't filibuster it in the Senate?

Obama Care faced filibuster in the Senate too so your excuse is weak. They found the price a few Senators would accept and paid them to give up their principles....same ol ★■◆● different day...
They could have done that with the single payer method if they really wanted it.
Regardless, based on what did happen you're saying the solution to facing opposition to an efficient way to provide coverage is to abandon the concept and in its place shove a piece of crap down americas throat?
A piece of crap that is now going to cost near 3 times the claimed expense and it is still rising! Your guys climbed in bed with the insurance companies and created a giant steaming pile of same-old-★■◆●

flip wrote:Lol! To be one ask one

EDIT: You know, i honestly dont have anything against Mason's in general. It's that subversive element that has crept in that George Washington and JFK warned about I'm against.

as a Catholic, JFK would have no more knowledge of Freemasons than my dog. As for Washington, most Masons I know revere him(my dad helped write a Masonic Bio of the guy), and any warnings from GW shouldn't be viewed as having the slightest thing to do with modern reality, which is, that the Freemasons are largely an aging group which harks back to an earlier time, and never has been exactly sinister.

Will Robinson wrote: Obama Care faced filibuster in the Senate too so your excuse is weak. They found the price a few Senators would accept and paid them to give up their principles....same ol **** different day...

indeed, and once again both an example of what I described to you, and how legislatures work. The GOP filibuster was broken by swinging a handful of votes. Those votes wouldn't have supported single payer.

A piece of crap that is now going to cost near 3 times the claimed expense and it is still rising! Your guys climbed in bed with the insurance companies and created a giant steaming pile of ****

I agree that it isn't perfect, but your numbers are not true. In fact, the overall effect on the deficit is positive. What is also positive is that it will make future attempts to move to the more efficient single payer doable, as the stigma of health care reform as some sort of third-rail politically is over.

JFK knew the dangers of secret alliance all too well I think. Otherwise he would not made a public appeal to the media to expose it and in no way is Masonry dieing or archaic. It is a worldwide common thread.

EDIT: It is a way for that subversive element to network, hide behind the good name of others and stay above reproach.

CUDA wrote:The only deal is thee GOP agreeing for a tax increase
the Dems have stoll not aggreed tp cut spending. And if they don then there is no deal.

And TC at least the house has tried.
The Senate jas stonewalled, never attempting to do their job

Oh, I'm not arguing with you about the Senate on that point. But remember, the House has never put up ANY spending cuts for the Military in all their little spending cut proposals, nor have they EVER considered any "tax" ("cough") revenue increases either. All they want is to cut taxes and cut everything else spending wise to the bone and gut those, ewwww, entitlement programs, they have loathed ever since FDR and Johnson created them. EVERYONE will have to join in the pain to be fair whenever cuts are made if you want true compromise, including DEFENSE. And I agree that the Dems like to tax and spend like it's Christmas. But BOTH parties need to get out of their fortified castles and compromise. All this constant last minute sniping BS Congress keeps doing is a shame on our country.

I'd also have more respect for their constant spending cut mantra if they'd piped up even one little bit during Bush's wild spending party, but again, Republicans NEVER want to touch their golden child, DEFENSE, which Bush was spending all his eggs on like there was no tomorrow. And the Republicans keep saying that if we just keep cutting taxes, jobs will be magically created, the economy will magically grow and THEN cover the revenue loss. Well, it hasn't worked since Bush started it with HIS tax cuts, and STILL isn't working NOW, so why keep flogging a dead horse that's not going anywhere? We'll need BOTH revenue increases AND spending cuts to dig our way out of this mess.

tunnelcat wrote:And the Republicans keep saying that if we just keep cutting taxes, jobs will be magically created, the economy will magically grow and THEN cover the revenue loss. Well, it hasn't worked since Bush started it with HIS tax cuts, and STILL isn't working NOW, so why keep flogging a dead horse that's not going anywhere? We'll need BOTH revenue increases AND spending cuts to dig our way out of this mess.

moreover, that idea has NEVER worked, not here, or any other country. Part of the pickle the EuroZone is in is trying to impose severe spending austerity on an aging infrastructure right on the tail end of a recession.

And that is where this country is at right now, an aging population that can no longer work to create those magic revenues the Republicans keep talking about and spiraling out of control health care costs that will be soon be needed en masse. We're going to have to decide on whether we want to care for our elders, or buy that shiny new aircraft carrier with all new warplanes. We are going to have to make hard choices concerning both, and soon. Nobody's going to be happy.

looks like the House Repubs have caved on the debt ceiling fight idea. A financial disaster averted, maybe only for 3 months, but averted.
As I said in one of the many gun posts, it seems like the GOP sensible minority in the House has grown a pair.

callmeslick wrote:A financial disaster averted,

HARDLY. it's only been postponed on the credit card.. someday we'll get the past due notice from the Chinese

CUDA wrote:

callmeslick wrote:A financial disaster averted,

HARDLY. it's only been postponed on the credit card.. someday we'll get the past due notice from the Chinese

sure we will, and then, they will invest where, for safety?
Reality dictates that surely we must get the balance back which we had in the 90s, and get long-term plans in place to prevent future backslides like we had in the first decade of this century. But, the Chinese call in their investments? Not very likely in the near term.

...except we won't, because that's not really how the creditor-debtor relationship between countries works.

How would that work? Would the Chinese call the white house five times a day asking how much they can pay today? or tomorrow? Will Equifax get involved? They buy our debt so we'll buy their ★■◆● products and fund their economy--neither side wants the deal to be any different.

Debt ceiling needs to go away. It's money already spent, have to pay the bills. The fight is elsewhere. Only country to have this archaic device that one party decided to use as a tool, something that is disgusting and ill advised.

then why have a monetary system????

why put a value on anything. why not just give everyone the same thing, we can all live in our mansions, drive our Ferrari's, and eat our Caviar. debt means nothing. it's archaic,

HEY I think i just wrote the Democrats platform for the 2016 election

one of these days, CUDA, you will come to understand that governmental budgeting and household budgeting work differently, for very good reasons.

Yes indeed, but they also have some basic fundamental principals in common.

One of the differences between a business or household budget is the fact that governments can raise revenue at will…probably the most stark difference, and the cause of many of the problems.

callmeslick wrote:one of these days, CUDA, you will come to understand that governmental budgeting and household budgeting work differently, for very good reasons.

Like borrowing money from “trust” funds of social security and medicare running up the debt ceiling and call it surplus.

Spidey wrote:Yes indeed, but they also have some basic fundamental principals in common.

One of the differences between a business or household budget is the fact that governments can raise revenue at will…probably the most stark difference, and the cause of many of the problems.

agree. the biggest difference is that as a Business or an individual I need to earn it or my revenue goes somewhere else. as a Government I can forcibly take it, by arms if necessary. giving you no say in the matter, and the only option to prevent it usually ends with jail or worse bloodshed. forcing me to work to give you money is by legal definition extortion and a crime in the Business and real world.

callmeslick wrote:one of these days, CUDA, you will come to understand that governmental budgeting and household budgeting work differently, for very good reasons.

I think a lot of those so called 'good reasons' only sound good to politicians and their lackey types...
Those of us who worked from nothing to earn a living, having all our income exposed to the tax man, can't afford tax shelters, etc. take more notice and offense at the wasteful spending practices of government than the wealthy do.

Then why do you vote Republican Will, they're ★■◆●ing you worse than everyone else? Why fight for that party? If you're going to get raped, then at least you can get something out of it. GOP rapes you and then you ask for more without anything in return (unless you're a millionaire which no one here is)

Somebody’s not keeping up.

Spidey wrote:Somebody’s not keeping up.

I'm guessing he suffers from Dyslexia and keep mixing up his alphabet and confusing GOP with DNC

CobGobbler wrote:Then why do you vote Republican Will, they're **** you worse than everyone else? Why fight for that party? If you're going to get raped, then at least you can get something out of it. GOP rapes you and then you ask for more without anything in return (unless you're a millionaire which no one here is)

I don't. I always do my best to get people from either side to abandon the R's and D's and vote for a third party...any third party and be sure you write to the others and tell them why you left the plantation..
I vote for the Libertarian candidate usually. I voted Obama in the 2008 primary because I was afraid Hillary was going to win which just goes to prove the old warning: be careful what you wish for.

Birdseye called me out on my dogmatic support for the repubs many years ago because my rants for change leaned more libertarian than repub and I realized he was right so I promised to vote Libertarian for at least the next two presidential cycles, which I have done, and like highschool, you just can't go back once you get out. No R's or D's for me. I even have a friend who just ran and won but I had to hold true to myself so I didn't vote for him either. He's a really good guy but he's one of them now....

but, Will, isn't that still a sort of rigidity? I mean, if you KNOW your friend is a good person, and his personal views coincide with your views and self interest, why even look at party label and not back him? If you know him, you should be able to discuss things with him, at least when he's back in the Horry County region(I think that was the district I read....). I dunno, it seems to be cutting off one's nose to spite the face as my grandma used to say....

callmeslick wrote:but, Will, isn't that still a sort of rigidity? I mean, if you KNOW your friend is a good person, and his personal views coincide with your views and self interest, why even look at party label and not back him? If you know him, you should be able to discuss things with him, at least when he's back in the Horry County region(I think that was the district I read....). I dunno, it seems to be cutting off one's nose to spite the face as my grandma used to say....

Yea, Horry County. Myrtle Beach, South Carolina. Home sweet home.

In order to get in the 'club' he is compromised. You don't get that high up without being in debt to the senior leadership and the Party's deep pockets and he rose quickly.

No, he hasn't done anything bad yet but he just got there. If he becomes a royal pain in their ass I could be swayed but I find it highly unlikely. It's more likely he will play the game well and probably take a run at he big white house one day. I think it is his long term goal.

Will Robinson wrote:

callmeslick wrote:but, Will, isn't that still a sort of rigidity? I mean, if you KNOW your friend is a good person, and his personal views coincide with your views and self interest, why even look at party label and not back him? If you know him, you should be able to discuss things with him, at least when he's back in the Horry County region(I think that was the district I read....). I dunno, it seems to be cutting off one's nose to spite the face as my grandma used to say....

Yea, Horry County. Myrtle Beach, South Carolina. Home sweet home.

nice neighborhood. My daughter used to love the area. We spent a week or two every summer in either MB or Hilton Head, or both, for about 8 years straight, when she was a kid.

In order to get in the 'club' he is compromised. You don't get that high up without being in debt to the senior leadership and the Party's deep pockets and he rose quickly.

No, he hasn't done anything bad yet but he just got there. If he becomes a royal pain in their ass I could be swayed but I find it highly unlikely. It's more likely he will play the game well and probably take a run at he big white house one day. I think it is his long term goal.

goal of many. Achievement of very, very few. I'd say, as a conservative Republican from the South, he has zero chance until around 2032, or until the South secedes......again.

callmeslick wrote:...

goal of many. Achievement of very, very few. I'd say, as a conservative Republican from the South, he has zero chance until around 2032, or until the South secedes......again.

Probably depends a lot on how far Obama and his replacement pushes the pendulum out of balance.
A conservative might have the high ground after the storm.