Hugo Chavez of Venezuela was...

[callmeslick]

well, Spidey, if you wait for private investment, enjoy the ride into 3rd rate status. Far safer ways for folks to seed money, and no money to gamble on new ideas.

[woodchip]

well, Spidey, if you wait for private investment, enjoy the ride into 3rd rate status. Far safer ways for folks to seed money, and no money to gamble on new ideas.

I wonder if Henry Ford got seed money from the govt.? If a idea is a good one, people will invest in it. Of course if you want the govt. to have their grasping fingers even more involved in your business idea, just have them give you the seed money.

[Spidey]

Well, maybe if taxpayers got a direct benefit from their investment…and I mean direct, not through some payback that ends up in the treasury or the pockets of politicians, then it would be ok.

As of now, the only benefit people see from these “investments” is the right to pay out of the ass, when buying the products created from them.

Money for “R & D” should only be given to educational institutions, and then any knowledge gained should be made public info…no money should ever be given directly to a private company.

Loans are a different story. (and military research)

[CobGobbler]

All investment is a gamble. Sometimes it turns out, sometimes it does not. Ford may not have had seed money from the govt, but he got it elsewhere. Sometimes the govt is the only one that's willing to invest in the initial outlay, i.e the space program and the interstate road system. The govt can make good investments that can potentially benefit all people, but you guys seem to think that anything govt is bad and the private industry is the only good thing. If I remember correctly, the govt didn't direct mortgage companies to package toxic CDOs and tell them to swindle other entities into purchasing them. Private industry, when left unchecked (Enron, Wall St), does not do ANYTHING for the common good. They only do what makes them more money, everyone else be damned. Now we have these companies that can literally do anything now and they have no worry about failing--it's a pretty sad state of affairs.

[Will Robinson]

All investment is a gamble. Sometimes it turns out, sometimes it doesn't

And sometimes the President takes half a billion dollars of our tax money and gives it to a business pretending they qualify for the assistance even though his advisers just told him they absolutely do not.

If I remember correctly, the govt didn't direct mortgage companies to package toxic CDOs and tell them to swindle other entities into purchasing them. Private industry, when left unchecked..... ..

Well you clearly don't remember correctly!

You have selectively remembered the bad things that private business did with the bad loans but you seem to have left out governments part in first, creating them, and then in refusing to stop when they were warned by the officials hired to watch the business to prevent problems!
It was government that mandated those bad loans be created in the first place and it was congress who demonized the regulators who tried to raise the warning flag.

It was politicians pandering to minorities for votes that flooded business with the problem in the first place and they refused to stop the problem when warned about it! Different day, same old ★■◆●.

[CobGobbler]

Wow, you have no idea how the CRA works do you? As someone that worked in the industry for quite sometime, it was not the minorities that were the problem. Jesus, you are such a jackass. Why do you ★■◆● on the little person the way you always do? The fault lies with the person that LENT the money, not the person requesting it. I hope that your online persona is different from your real life because you are the most miserable, cynical person I've read. I just feel bad for your family. Do you spout of this "I'm right about everything under the sun" bull★■◆● to them as well?

[Will Robinson]

Wow, you have no idea how the CRA works do you? As someone that worked in the industry for quite sometime, it was not the minorities that were the problem. Jesus, you are such a jackass. Why do you **** on the little person the way you always do? The fault lies with the person that LENT the money, not the person requesting it. I hope that your online persona is different from your real life because you are the most miserable, cynical person I've read. I just feel bad for your family. Do you spout of this "I'm right about everything under the sun" **** to them as well?

I'm not picking on the little guy/minority! Why do you attribute that to me when I clearly blamed government!

The person that leant the money was forced to loan it to unqualified borrowers by the government. That is an important distinction you are trying leave out. As is the fact that the liberals in congress blatantly ignored and ridiculed the regulators who raised the issue with the looming specter of major defaults caused by the practice the liberals mandated!

The fact is this was done to curry favor with minority voters. It isnt theif fault their leaders are behaving like mafiosos and pimps.
You can hoist up all the strawman arguments you like. It doesn't change the facts.

If you can't handle it that is your problem.

[CobGobbler]

No one was / is forced to do anything. That's the distinction that YOUR side leaves out. The CRA mandates that qualified members of a minority group must be given the same treatment as those in the dominant majority. That is all. No where does it say that we must give out money to minorities that have no ability to pay it back. The idea dates way back to the 50s when the suburban sprawl began to happen and many banks refused to lend to QUALIFIED minorities because the white folk didn't want them in their neighborhoods. Treating Americans like Americans is not always pandering for votes, sometimes it's just the right thing to do.

Now, as for regulators being douches, well yes then Will that is certainly something we can agree on. This whole revolving door thing that goes on right now in Washington is utterly sickening. I think that legislators should not be able to become registered lobbyists in the field that they held oversight on. I know that's just a pipe-dream because these same people make the rules for themselves (how ★■◆●ing nice is that?), but something needs to be done.

Help me out here Will, other than making rich people richer, what has private industry done that collectively benefited the American population as a whole? You can't use automobiles either because the Europeans had that first. If the government hadn't stepped in, what do you think minimum wage would be at? Would we still have children working in mines? Any kind of work safety? Do you honestly believe that private companies would go out of their way to make your life better?

[Will Robinson]

The law said to loan to "qualified" borrowers but the administration made it crystal clear that the lenders were being too picky about the definition of qualified. They insisted, with threat of legal action, that the lenders loosen the criteria.

We both know that lenders don't care what color the borrower is as long as his money is green so the premise that the banks didn't want to profit from a loan if the borrower was brown is bull★■◆●! The liberals used their power to force lenders to make bad loans and unqualified borrowers rushed in to take advantage of the situation. The motive for that was to be seen as the protectors of the minorities.

The liberals completely ignored sound warnings from regulators. I've posted the video of them in session chastizing the regulators and playing the race card to deflect warranted acusations against the liberal lackeys who paid themselves huge sums of money for meeting quotas that were actually not met and the root of the problem!

I did not say lenders were without any fault. I showed you that they were not alone in it.

Your preaching to the choir on lobbyists I've been against any form of lobbying from the beggining and have described how we could replace that component of our current system including a federal bribery statute to convict offenders.

As for private industry and it's benefits. You are way wrong. The benefits are staggering. Almost everyone works and produces for a private business in exchange for compensation and government is practically wholey funded from it!

Just because there is a down side doesn't mean there is no good in it! It is silly to imply no good comes from private industry. The government can't possibly replace it and every time it is tried it ends terribly in bloody revolution.

[woodchip]

Cob, you are missing one salient fact. I'm speaking from experience as I needed a loan to cover my divorce settlement. Back then the banks were handing out undocumented (no nothing to do with illegal immigrants) loans where you didn't have to produce any paperwork showing you could handle making the payments. Millions of these loans were made under the community reinvestment act, then sold as derivatives to other banks. It all fell apart and caused the Great Recession because millions of people defaulted on those loans because they were not able to make the payments (nor would they have ever got the loan if they had to prove they could make the payments). All of this misery because the bleeding heart liberals thought it was unfair some people couldn't afford to own their own home.

I hope Cob, you were not one of those blood sucking loan managers that went out enticing poor people into getting a loan just so you and your bank could make money off the loan by selling it to another bank.