DescentBB

CUDA wrote:[Don't] judge the homosexuals for their sexual sins, because we heterosexual's sin in the same manner. we tend to think that Homosexuality is a worse sin because it tends to disgust many of us, but in God's eyes it isn't.

Spidey wrote:[L]ust as a sin is normally connected to excesses, rather than normal feelings and desires.

I think these are really good views.

Seems like if a man lusts after a woman it is better to marry her. The same should be allowed for homosexuals.

CUDA wrote:a distinct possibility....it wasn't until Adam made the choice to eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil that this became an issue

Is this the 10 posts back you're referring to? It's not the answer. For one, I don't believe in the Adam and Eve story. Human history goes back waaaaaay farther than that reference in earth's fossil record, so eating from the tree of knowledge is just an excuse for our sometimes bad or evil inborn behaviors. Besides, a lot of our behaviors are mirrored in the animal kingdom as well, so we are closer in behavior to the rest of animal life on this planet than you'd like to think, including homosexuality and murder. Both lions and chimpanzees have been seen killing other animals and not for reasons of obtaining food. I saw this particular Nat Geo show in it's entirety a few years back.This male lion killed this particular hyena after a long series of harassment episodes against it's pride. The male finally targeted and chased down one particular hyena and killed it. He, nor his pride, never ate it either. It was killed purely out of hate.

[youtube]FoNmQX09rX0[/youtube]

tunnelcat wrote:

CUDA wrote:a distinct possibility....it wasn't until Adam made the choice to eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil that this became an issue

Is this the 10 posts back you're referring to? It's not the answer. For one, I don't believe in the Adam and Eve story. Human history goes back waaaaaay farther than that reference in earth's fossil record, so eating from the tree of knowledge is just an excuse for our sometimes bad or evil inborn behaviors. Besides, a lot of our behaviors are mirrored in the animal kingdom as well, so we are closer in behavior to the rest of animal life on this planet than you'd like to think, including homosexuality and murder. Both lions and chimpanzees have been seen killing other animals and not for reasons of obtaining food. I saw this particular Nat Geo show in it's entirety a few years back.This male lion killed this particular hyena after a long series of harassment episodes against it's pride. The male finally targeted and chased down one particular hyena and killed it. He, nor his pride, never ate it either. It was killed purely out of hate.

[youtube]FoNmQX09rX0[/youtube]

Didn't you just say the hyena harassed the lions so they killed it?
Then you fabricated hate as the motive. Why claim to know what was in the heart of the lion?
Subconsciously creating some kind of parallel to humans who are proactive against predators so you can attribute hate to them? It seems the motive is survival based on the info you gave before you jumped to an unfounded conclusion.

Will Robinson wrote: Why claim to know what was in the heart of the lion?

I'm guess the same thought that is in my heart as I stroll into an Italian restaurant.....

Subconsciously creating some kind of parallel to humans who are proactive against predators so you can attribute hate to them? It seems the motive is survival based on the info you gave before you jumped to an unfounded conclusion.

my dog says otherwise.....just sayin'......

You needed to watch to whole show Will. The lead-up to the killing episode left no doubt that this particular male lion had it out for this particular hyena. Besides, most male lions don't do the killing usually. They tend to be lazy and let the females do the dirty work of hunting. Males usually only kill close rivals or close threats that approach the pride. They almost never run for long distances just to perform a non-food kill. What this lion did was an aberration to normal, observed behavior, hate.

So you wish to debate your supposition of hate based on a short clip not know the history of the situation. Classic

Like I said, the show left an impression on me and you needed to watch the whole hour to get the gist. The Nat Geo show was titled: Eternal Enemies: Lions and Hyenas. You can even buy it on DVD from Amazon. Here's a slightly longer version showing the prelude and harassment to the male's attack. There is definitely an intentional emotional provocation between different species. Almost a human-like reaction.

[youtube]Pda4zULB3EA[/youtube]

It is a delicate situation. On one hand we have the tendency to anthropomorphize animals (this is a good quality by the way). On the other hand it is undeniable that humans and animals share more traits than the human ego will generally admit to. Not only are we animals, but animals are human -- or so more and more research is showing. They are capable of complex thought and emotions and some have fairly sophisticated languages.

It's hard to say the lion hated the hyena, but you can imagine a similar situation and get a reasonable idea of what motivated the lion's actions. I could be similar to having a wasp in your house. You might first try to convince it to leave or even do a catch-and-release, but sometimes it doesn't work out that way and you wind up killing it. You probably didn't hate the wasp, but it was definitely going to be a problem for the well-being of your family if it wasn't removed.

Oh, make no mistake, I hate wasps and they hate me. No anthropomorphizing at all. They'll sting me at the slightest cross look or movement near them. Some species will attack you over and over if you even swat at them, like those little black iridescent ones. I will always kill one when the opportunity arises because they are invading my territory, my house. My roof tiles are full of paper and mud wasps. I can't even get up there to paint in the summer. If I didn't block off my window drains in the spring, my windows would be glued shut with mud by summer. If I could kill all the ones around my house, I'd do it in a heartbeat, because they're pests, invaders, just like hyenas are pests to the lions. It's personal to both me and the lion, so I can relate. They hate me and I hate them. Same with moles. Kill first, ask no questions, have no remorse.

Thorne never answered my questions. But I'm not really surprised, seeing as it came from an indefensible position.

BTW: Jsus had a thing for prostitutes...

Ferno, I didn't answer your question for three reasons. The first reason is, that it's kind of a difficult answer you're asking for. This is compounded by the second, which is that I have such a dissimilar frame of reference from most anyone here, that I think there's a high probability you just plain wouldn't appreciate the answer. "It would be impossible to discuss the subject without a common frame of reference." -Spock in Star Trek IV The third reason is that the topic got totally side-tracked before I would have had a chance anyway, so I had put it out of my mind.

Ferno wrote:BTW: Jsus had a thing for prostitutes...

Uh oh, Ferno. You're going to raise CUDA's hackles.

that I think there's a high probability you just plain wouldn't appreciate the answer

I'm sorry, but that air of superiority just doesn't work with me. You're the one that brought up deviant behaviour, I asked you what it's destroyed/contaminated. If you can't answer it, just say so.

tunnelcat wrote:

Ferno wrote:BTW: Jsus had a thing for prostitutes...

Uh oh, Ferno. You're going to raise CUDA's hackles.

he also had a thing for tax collectors, lepers, and liberals. he felt they all needed grace, salvation and healing.

Matthew 5:11

that's a pretty loose interpretation.

and so was yours.
Read up on what God told the prophet Hosea to do. and why.

And really, Cuda is right. There was nothing "loose" about it.

Actually Matthew had nothing to do with my comment. It was a stand alone verse.

stepping back and just reading the theological debate my OP has spawned......I do wish to point out, for TC's benefit, that it is a bad idea of swat at, or even kill, single wasps. Stinging insects(notably the wasps, most dramatic of all the ones called Yellow Jackets) produce pheromones, chemicals capable of group communication when airborne. Thus, you piss one off, it releases pheromones. You kill it, it really disperses them most of the time, because, well, who really GENTLY kills wasps? We tend to pummel them into little bits. The usual result is a whole swarm of the recently deceased's relatives in your general area.
As you correctly noticed, certain hornets and a few wasps do not lose the stinger upon first use. It is permanent on those species and they can gleefully sting you over and over. White-faced Hornets are very aggressive, in my sorry experience.

Duper wrote:And really, Cuda is right. There was nothing "loose" about it.

the fact he attached 'liberals' to it made it loose.

Ferno wrote:

Duper wrote:And really, Cuda is right. There was nothing "loose" about it.

the fact he attached 'liberals' to it made it loose.

Romans 3:23


23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

no it didnt

You know you can't try to bury your little fetish with liberals like that, Cuda.

CUDA wrote:

tunnelcat wrote:

Ferno wrote:BTW: Jsus had a thing for prostitutes...

Uh oh, Ferno. You're going to raise CUDA's hackles.

he also had a thing for tax collectors, lepers, and liberals. he felt they all needed grace, salvation and healing.

Matthew 5:11

I'm pretty sure Jesus had no idea of what a liberal was, nor would he have called one a sinner if he did. In fact, he might just call a few of the conservatives in the House sinners for wanting to take away most of the food programs from poor people.

And I'm pretty sure you dont know what you're talking about

he would have AND DID say that they ALL were sinners.

Yeah, I know. But you did rise to the bait.

Only to correct your ignorance

CUDA wrote:he would have AND DID say that they ALL were sinners.

Tea Partiers included?

Yep

even you ferny

CUDA wrote:Only to correct your ignorance

You are quite an optimist!

CUDA wrote:Only to correct your ignorance

Heck, you don't like to post until someone talks about religion.

CUDA wrote:Yep

even you ferny

hey, at least I can admit to it. unlike SOME people...

Ferno wrote:

CUDA wrote:Yep

even you ferny

hey, at least I can admit to it. unlike SOME people...

tru dat