Faded Purple

[sigma]

Without a doubt , the whole world knows and sees . Just Americans do not want to recognize these obvious things . By virtue of patriotism. I understand. Of course, I can give you proof. But it will take a lot of space on the forum. Just good enough to get acquainted with the modern history. I emphasize , not the American version CONTEMPORARY world history, but with a real modern history. Maybe I 'll surprise you , but the English-language Wikipedia distorts many, many real historical facts to justify heinous war crimes of the US before the peoples in many other countries . It's a fact . Former and current U.S. politicians should be judged by international military tribunal has long been .

[Will Robinson]

The last 30 years contain but a small bit of what they attack us over. From bin Ladens own words it is the very existence of Israel, our role in helping create the state of Israel.

and, our maintenence of that state. At some point, we have to realize that what is in Israels interest is NOT in our own, especially in terms of dragging the process of a two state solution out forever.

And on his list things he calls on us to do to appease his followers and avoid further attacks, 'getting out of the Middle East' comes up #5 behind things like:

*convert to islam

*to reject the immoral acts of fornication, homosexuality, intoxicants, gambling's, and trading with interest.

*abandon our Constitution and other man made laws and adopt ruling by the Shariah of Allah.

*End the separation of religion from our policies because that contradicts the pure nature which affirms Absolute Authority to the Lord and Creator.

and you seriously think that group(and especially their financial backers in Saudi Arabia) are going to waste time and resources over the US if we stopped meddling in the Middle East? Really? Are you that paranoid? I'm not, and would far rather see our vast resources aimed toward making our own people more comfortable and secure, and stop pissing away resources cleaning up the messes around the planet.

By their definition, "stop meddling" means let the muslims kill all the jews in Israel!.
So if you want to try and rewrite their definition to match what you think meddling is then I think you will find they will continue their jihad against us...

The point isn't whether I think they would attack us over just enjoying girls in bikinis and interest on loans, but we both know we aren't going to stop meddling according to their definition and so it is stupid to characterize their mentality/motives as simply a result of recent support for non fundamentalist regimes! You want to deny reality and distill the problem down to a conservative vs liberal problem! Stupid move slick.

They clearly want to spread Sharia law and Islam across any land/nation they choose to consider an influence on their people. And that is the rub!

The global village effect has us forever in their neighborhood. We can't avoid being on their radar without changing our way of life. So, in reality, it isn't just our foreign policy!
Two diametrically opposed cultures have to clash and one change the other or wipe out the other. That is natures way. You cant beat mother nature, so man up, grab a helmet.

those moderate backers in Saudi Arabia you cite as a deterrent to the islamofacists attacking us.....they are moderate because of our 'meddling'....we have a base there... we meddle there a lot! Our 'meddling' protects the moderate House of Saud from all sorts of potential islamo facist threats. So you can't have your cake and eat it too!

Our meddling is the way we change that culture we are opposed to. The alternative is the 'wipe them out' solution.

[sigma]

I wonder why so many Russian women want to find a American husband. Is this something to do with the American way of life or does it say something about Russian men?

Because Russian women, like any woman, looking for a better life than they have now. They believe that the U.S. live better than in Russia. When they realize that in the U.S. they are only as prostitutes, many are simply unable to return home. Feel sorry for them.

[callmeslick]

By their definition, "stop meddling" means let the muslims kill all the jews in Israel!.
So if you want to try and rewrite their definition to match what you think meddling is then I think you will find they will continue their jihad against us...

so be it. If Israel wants to figure out how to co-exist with the vast preponderance of Islamic people in their region, they can. I see no point in continuing to pour US foreign aid into Israel to maintain a stance of obstinence and subjugation, however.

The point isn't whether I think they would attack us over just enjoying girls in bikinis and interest on loans, but we both know we aren't going to stop meddling according to their definition and so it is stupid to characterize their mentality/motives as simply a result of recent support for non fundamentalist regimes! You want to deny reality and distill the problem down to a conservative vs liberal problem! Stupid move slick.

I have mentioned neither liberal nor conservative here, so where you come up with that is beyond me. Why, pray tell, do we NOT stop propping up Israel?

They clearly want to spread Sharia law and Islam across any land/nation they choose to consider an influence on their people. And that is the rub!

no, it is their right. It is up to the local people to accept or reject that premise, without the US putting their two-cents in.

The global village effect has us forever in their neighborhood. We can't avoid being on their radar without changing our way of life. So, in reality, it isn't just our foreign policy!

nonsense, we can perfectly well maintain our way of life. We just have to focus on OUR nation and let the rest of the world sort itself out. Sure, we can use our strength to keep some controls over high-powered weapons systems, and maintain trade lanes, but to sort out other peoples religions and laws is ludicrous and VERY expensive.

Two diametrically opposed cultures that will have to clash and one change the other or end the other. That is natures way. You cant beat mother nature, so man up, grab a helmet.

more nonsense. Both can co-exist just fine and have, at times in history.

those moderate backers in Saudi Arabia you cite as a detterent to the islamofacists attacking us.....they are moderate because of our 'meddling'....we have a base there... we meddle there a lot! Our 'meddling' protects the moderate House of Saud from all sorts of potential islamo facist threats. So you can't have your cake and eat it too!

I never said any such thing. In my mind, the House of Saud merely uses the US as a convenience. Interestingly, we are at a point, in terms of geographical distribution of energy sources, where the influence of certain middle eastern nations will start to wane. The proactive approach for the US is to prepare for this and stop wasting money where it need not be wasted.

[callmeslick]

Sigma, you answered Woodchips silly question, but failed to address my more serious one. What proof do you have to offer to back your ridiculous claim that the US trained terrorists specifically to target Russia?

[Will Robinson]

By their definition, "stop meddling" means let the muslims kill all the jews in Israel!.
So if you want to try and rewrite their definition to match what you think meddling is then I think you will find they will continue their jihad against us...

so be it. If Israel wants to figure out how to co-exist with the vast preponderance of Islamic people in their region, they can. I see no point in continuing to pour US foreign aid into Israel to maintain a stance of obstinence and subjugation, however.

OK. As long as it's clear your suggested foreign policy reasoning includes allowing the state of Israel and its millions of citizens to be wiped out.

The point isn't whether I think they would attack us over just enjoying girls in bikinis and interest on loans, but we both know we aren't going to stop meddling according to their definition and so it is stupid to characterize their mentality/motives as simply a result of recent support for non fundamentalist regimes! You want to deny reality and distill the problem down to a conservative vs liberal problem! Stupid move slick.

I have mentioned neither liberal nor conservative here, so where you come up with that is beyond me.

I think the implications are clear to those who have read your comments...'the neocons are at fault' etc.. You are free to dance away from them. We are familiar with that performance.

They clearly want to spread Sharia law and Islam across any land/nation they choose to consider an influence on their people. And that is the rub!

no, it is their right. It is up to the local people to accept or reject that premise, without the US putting their two-cents in.

I don't think their right includes killing 3000 civilians in the U.S. on 9-11-2001 for retaliation against our support for Israel etc.
The people they killed on 9-11-2001 were specifically cited as fair game for that reason! It is that kind of thing that I was referring to. So our alleged 'meddling in the middle east', according to you, justifies that attack. You and bin Laden have that in common. Well, that and their proclaimed god given right to kill all the jews in Israel...

The global village effect has us forever in their neighborhood. We can't avoid being on their radar without changing our way of life. So, in reality, it isn't just our foreign policy!

nonsense, we can perfectly well maintain our way of life. We just have to focus on OUR nation and let the rest of the world sort itself out. Sure, we can use our strength to keep some controls over high-powered weapons systems, and maintain trade lanes, but to sort out other peoples religions and laws is ludicrous and VERY expensive.

As long as we don't try to stop the wholesale destruction or genocide committed by islamofacists or any other nation/group I think that plan will work...for a while...

Two diametrically opposed cultures that will have to clash and one change the other or end the other. That is natures way. You cant beat mother nature, so man up, grab a helmet.

more nonsense. Both can co-exist just fine and have, at times in history.

Really? 9-11-2001. 3000+ souls might disagree with that. And according to your suggested isolationist foreign policy they will be the tip of the iceburg.

those moderate backers in Saudi Arabia you cite as a detterent to the islamofacists attacking us.....they are moderate because of our 'meddling'....we have a base there... we meddle there a lot! Our 'meddling' protects the moderate House of Saud from all sorts of potential islamo facist threats. So you can't have your cake and eat it too!

I never said any such thing.

Yes, you certainly did; "

...and you seriously think that group(and especially their financial backers in Saudi Arabia) are going to waste time and resources over the US if we stopped meddling in the Middle East?

In my mind, the House of Saud merely uses the US as a convenience.

Yes, we conveniently represent a threat to any would be invaders who think they can undo the tenuous grip of power the House of Saud has on 22+ million peasants who are mostly sympathetic to, and under the influence of, islamofacist clerics who would love to have them take over the Kingdom!!

Our "meddling", as bloody as it sometimes gets, is the more peaceful, 'lower body count' method of reconciling two extremely different powerful cultures that are being thrown, unavoidable, together in the same arena.
Your suggested 'building up our defenses and letting the world sort it out without us' is the epitome of bad foreign policy.

[sigma]

Sigma, you answered Woodchips silly question, but failed to address my more serious one. What proof do you have to offer to back your ridiculous claim that the US trained terrorists specifically to target Russia?

Looks like I can with high probability immediately identify the stranger as an American only by his rhetoric
You do not know that the United States began to organize and finance the training centers of professional mercenaries in Afghanistan? Against the Soviet Union , and then Russia ? You do not know that the CIA prepared an army of terrorists from the Muslim countries in the Middle East and the former Soviet republics ? You do not know that the United States pays for radical Islamists for killing Russian soldiers , abductions Russian girls? You do not know that Islamic mercenaries kidnap Russian children and sell them into slavery in the Arab countries ? You do not know that if the stolen Russian refuses to accept Islam and hang over a suicide belt for suicide bombing in the Russian peace city, him cut off his head ? You do not know that even today the CIA sent into Russian cities agents of influence who introduce Wahhabism among Russian Muslims? This can be a long list . I think in this case , does not make sense to me to give you links to video documentary questioning Islamic mercenaries and interviews with representatives of the special anti-terrorist units, especially since everything is it in Russian. And even more so , I can not give you a record of conversations with my friends and relatives who fought in Chechnya and saw it with my own eyes. Take my word. Especially aware of this too many ordinary citizens , and not from the press.
With regard to analytical articles obscure foreign journalists ... Excuse me, but I can not read it without Homeric laughter .

[flip]

Sigma, I think it makes sense to interject destructive ideas to destroy a country from within. Everybody does it

EDIT: This is what I like about the Mason's. Leavened though they are . It is also why they allow any religious belief but you must be of belief. They know that as long as you have the utmost integrity, you are guaranteed success. It's like a cosmic law. Russia interjected destructive ideas for well over 50 years, now that we are in decay, they assume the moral high ground. Brilliant!

[sigma]

Sigma, I think it makes sense to interject destructive ideas to destroy a country from within. Everybody does it

EDIT: This is what I like about the Mason's. Leavened though they are . It is also why they allow any religious belief but you must be of belief. They know that as long as you have the utmost integrity, you are guaranteed success. It's like a cosmic law. Russia interjected destructive ideas for well over 50 years, now that we are in decay, they assume the moral high ground. Brilliant!

Russia has a lot of scouts around the world in a variety of business and government agencies in many countries. This fact is hard to disagree. And it is right for the balance of power . But Russia has never done such things , who allow themselves to USA today . Read the story, I repeat . The Soviet Union has always been compelled by appropriate measures to take in response to aggression . Today, American politicians are digging the grave of the prosperity of the United States, in my opinion. Similar stories have been to Germany, France, Poland, Turkey , Sweden, Finland , and Japan. It will be necessary , and we will prove it for the United States if necessary . In fact, it would be a global disaster in modern conditions. If all of us will not be able to kill another asteroid , we have long been able to destroy life on this planet together. But I do not care . The only thing I 'm afraid - this disgrace valor Russian soldiers. More than anything, I'm afraid I 'll meet them in the other world , and I can not look them in the eye.

[flip]

It just sounds like pre-Soviet collapse rhetoric to me.

[callmeslick]

As long as it's clear your suggested foreign policy reasoning includes allowing the state of Israel and its millions of citizens to be wiped out.

I don't think that has to be a necessity, but it IS the deserved response to the state of Israel's behavior to date.

I think the implications are clear to those who have read your comments...'the neocons are at fault' etc.. You are free to dance away from them. We are familiar with that performance.

I guess I consider neocon policies as less about lib vs conservative than aggressive vs cooperative foreign policy. If you wish to read it as liberal versus conservative, so be it.

I don't think their right includes killing 3000 civilians in the U.S. on 9-11-2001 for retaliation against our support for Israel etc.
The people they killed on 9-11-2001 were specifically cited as fair game for that reason! It is that kind of thing that I was referring to. So our alleged 'meddling in the middle east', according to you, justifies that attack. You and bin Laden have that in common. Well, that and their proclaimed god given right to kill all the jews in Israel...

look, I am not happy about 9/11, and have long stated that a little common sense prevention could have avoided it. But, enough about the stupidity of George Bush. The facts of the realpolitik are this: no small group is going to take on the US military straight-on, no more than the US Revolutionaries were going to fight a conventional war with the British in 1776 or so. Thus, tactics fit the aim, and the rise of the terroristic attack is now upon us. Makes perfect tactical sense, whether it fits our notion of 'fair play' or not.

As long as we don't try to stop the wholesale destruction or genocide committed by islamofacists or any other nation/group I think that plan will work...for a while...

others will step in and stop it out of self-preservation. The Saudis can afford it, so can the Egyptians, Kuwaitis, etc, etc. Let them clean their own house.

Really? 9-11-2001. 3000+ souls might disagree with that. And according to your suggested isolationist foreign policy they will be the tip of the iceburg.

why? And why the paltry matter of 3000 souls to get you so worked up? That is like a two-month total of what we laid waste to in Iraq and they had NOTHING to do with 9/11. Does that get your juices flowing? You know, the 150,000 killed in Iraq? It does me.

Yes, you certainly did; "

...and you seriously think that group(and especially their financial backers in Saudi Arabia) are going to waste time and resources over the US if we stopped meddling in the Middle East?

nothing 'moderate' about the Saudi backers.

Yes, we conveniently represent a threat to any would be invaders who think they can undo the tenuous grip of power the House of Saud has on 22+ million peasants who are mostly sympathetic to, and under the influence of, islamofacist clerics who would love to have them take over the Kingdom!!

I was referring to the need for our oil money, but you are correct in your assessment and give a very real reason why they should be worried, in the long run. In the short run, if they can keep the focus on the Infidels in the region, all is good for them......not so for us.

Our "meddling", as bloody as it sometimes gets, is the more peaceful, 'lower body count' method of reconciling two extremely different powerful cultures that are being thrown, unavoidable, together in the same arena.
Your suggested 'building up our defenses and letting the world sort it out without us' is the epitome of bad foreign policy.

I'll agree to disagree. We tried your way for decades, and it has failed us, for decades.

[callmeslick]

rhetoric or not, Sigma still only goes on with anectdotal evidence. Certainly, the US trained mercenaries to attack the Russians in Afghanistan. We are the ones who paid the price for that stupidity, frankly. I have seen utterly NO evidence that the target was Russia proper, merely the prevention of the colonialist expansion into Afghanistan.

[sigma]

Do you understand what you're saying?
Russia occupies 1/6 of the total land area on the planet. Why do we need barren mountains of Afghanistan? Why do we need somebody to colonize? And even more so , the territory of the U.S., we do not need even more . I'm shocked , as the American people are brainwashed . You seem to have arrived from Mars , you're not aware of the international situation . Americans do not get tired to amaze with their stupidity. Excuse me if I put it too harshly. I repeat, we are friendly people and are always welcome . But , believe me, you can not even imagine how Russia is dangerous for enemies. Bloodlust Muslims - is nothing compared to the Russian sense of justice . Believe.

[callmeslick]

Do you understand what you're saying?

yes, I do.

Russia occupies 1/6 of the total land area on the planet. Why do we need barren mountains of Afghanistan?

likely for a route for a natural gas pipeline, but that's just a guess.

Why do we need somebody to colonize?

a question no doubt asked by Hungarians, Czechs, Poles, Lithuanians, Ukranians, Slavs, etc, for decades.

And even more so , the territory of the U.S., we do not need even more .

I never suggested that you did. However, most of us would give you Texas in a heartbeat, but that's a whole different discussion.

I'm shocked , as the American people are brainwashed .

has the great Russian nation invented the mirror yet? If so, get one and put it to use.

You seem to have arrived from Mars , you're not aware of the international situation .

I daresay I see a larger picture than you're being fed.

Americans do not get tired to amaze with their stupidity. Excuse me if I put it too harshly. I repeat, we are friendly people and are always welcome . But , believe me, you can not even imagine how Russia is dangerous for enemies. Bloodlust Muslims - is nothing compared to the Russian sense of justice . Believe.

you all cannot put down a handful of rebels from within that massive land mass. And, they were clearly home-grown, with no help from the US or much of anywhere else except maybe the territories to their south. All the nationalistic bluster can't obscure the fact that you have failed, in Chechnya, and done so with alarming regularity and disasterous results at times.

[Tunnelcat]

Maybe the Soviet's didn't consider all that territory they took during WWII, which they then called "satellite states", to be "colonies", but just the spoils of war.

[Top Gun]

oh my God this thread

[Ferno]

what the ★■◆● did I just read...

[flip]

I just hope every Russian is not watching the same news stations as Sigma. Wait, they are!

[woodchip]

Sigma is either the most brainwashed person alive or a very clever troll.

[sigma]

If the rescue of the Soviet Union European countries from Nazi occupation which cost the lives of hundreds of thousands of Russian soldiers , fathers, sons , Americans call colonization ... I am more than confident that bolshistvo Americans piously believe that the U.S. is defeated fascism, and the Soviet Union only helped the Americans just a little .... Well, what else to talk to you ?
U.S. generally similar to drunken man from the Ku Klux Klan who can hit the black teenager to take his bike or mobile phone. U.S. does not attack the strong countries , because they are afraid to get in the face in response . But the U.S. is experiencing the pleasure of napalm to burn defenseless Vietnamese, throwing nuclear bombs on dilapidated Japan , bomb Tomahawks Negroes with guns, wage a guerrilla war against the legitimate government of Syria with the help of international Islamic mercenaries, calling them freedom fighters... A long list of infamous " military victories " USA... Moral freaks .

[Will Robinson]

If the rescue of the Soviet Union European countries from Nazi occupation which cost the lives of hundreds of thousands of Russian soldiers , fathers, sons , Americans call colonization ... I am more than confident that bolshistvo Americans piously believe that the U.S. is defeated fascism, and the Soviet Union only helped the Americans just a little .... Well, what else to talk to you ?
U.S. generally similar to drunken man from the Ku Klux Klan who can hit the black teenager to take his bike or mobile phone. U.S. does not attack the strong countries , because they are afraid to get in the face in response . But the U.S. is experiencing the pleasure of napalm to burn defenseless Vietnamese, throwing nuclear bombs on dilapidated Japan , bomb Tomahawks Negroes with guns, wage a guerrilla war against the legitimate government of Syria with the help of international Islamic mercenaries, calling them freedom fighters... A long list of infamous " military victories " USA... Moral freaks .

Is Putin hiring or something?
Seems like the DBB is a pretty obscure place to try and pad the resume with promoting the party line but what the hell, its a free internet....as long as you use it properly huh?

[callmeslick]

If the rescue of the Soviet Union European countries from Nazi occupation which cost the lives of hundreds of thousands of Russian soldiers , fathers, sons , Americans call colonization ...

so, after liberating them, you made them part of the 'Soviet Union' because they wanted to be? The Hungarians would differ, as would the Poles.

I am more than confident that bolshistvo Americans piously believe that the U.S. is defeated fascism, and the Soviet Union only helped the Americans just a little .... Well, what else to talk to you ?

what, indeed? Most of us, I dare say, are well aware that fascism was defeated by NO single nation, but a massive combined effort of many nations, and a good dose of luck thrown in.

U.S. generally similar to drunken man from the Ku Klux Klan who can hit the black teenager to take his bike or mobile phone.

Klansmen never did those sorts of things....you are displaying a gross ignorance of the US. Not in any way defending the Klan, but they targetted people in a far more serious way, and we not about petty theft, at all.

U.S. does not attack the strong countries , because they are afraid to get in the face in response .

nah, Germany, Italy and Japan were weaklings. In recent times I might agree with your gross generalization, however.

But the U.S. is experiencing the pleasure of napalm to burn defenseless Vietnamese

friends of mine who were there are pretty certain those 'defenseless' Vietnamese were shooting at them....with Russian weapons, to boot.
,

throwing nuclear bombs on dilapidated Japan

this line shows your complete ignorance. The Japanese had been weakened, but clearly were determined to fight to the last man to prevail. To end the war without the further deaths of MILLIONS, we used the bomb(s). It worked.

In short, Sigma, you show utterly NO CLUE about US history, good or bad. You show nothing short of a comical grasp on recent world history, as demonstrated by your descriptions of WWII. Maybe you should try and understand reality and history a bit better, before ranting about how the US has it wrong. I'm anything but an apologist for the US foreign policy of the past 40 years, but your take is so far off, it is difficult to reason with.

[sigma]

In my opinion, Americans need to pay attention not to Putin. Yes , his power is similar to the omnipotence of the Russian tsars. But Putin - a democratic king . Overall, I can call him a good leader of Russia . Despite all the dirt that was poured on him foreign journalists and opposition activists from Russia.
Americans need to pay more attention to the actions of Congress and the President of the United States. I look at Barack Obama and see that he is a stranger among his . I see what he wants to do something good for America and for the whole world, but he can not. He is not allowed .
I believe that the German people in 1939 did not want to attack anyone . Neither on the Soviet Union nor the European countries , on to England or the United States .
There are a lot of documentary evidence that German soldiers lost their minds in the literal sense , when they were forced to hang lots of
Russian women , cut scalps Russian women for making wigs in Germany, cut off the skin Russian women for making handbags for German fashionistas, instilled into the pit alive or burn Russian children in the fire and furnaces German concentration camps. The most famous evidence - when a German soldier chained in the bunker , and he was crazy , shooting six hours of gun Russian soldiers. Lot of such examples . Not only because of the Second World War . I repeat , read the real story . I would not want Americans to know what war on their territory. You need read and know real history.
Of course, world history is cyclical . I am sure that the Third World War is inevitable . I hope Americans will be able to avoid large errors on the basis of knowledge of history. Well, Russian is no stranger to sacrifice their lives for the sake of holy justice to protect our long-suffering motherland.

[sigma]

callmeslick,I see an American who has never seen a war with his own eyes. Talk to American veterans at leisure. Welcome to acting U.S. troops. Disgrace your family to be involved in the massacre of civilians.

[callmeslick]

callmeslick,I see an American who has never seen a war with his own eyes. Talk to American veterans at leisure. Welcome to acting U.S. troops. Disgrace your family to be involved in the massacre of civilians.

try again. These sentences don't really translate well. If it answers what you are trying to say, though, I'll state here that no, I've never been in a war(have you?). However, some of my closest friends on this planet are veterans of Vietnam, and some family members have served in Iraq and other war zones(Balkans). What you are babbling about with 'massacre of civilians', I have no clue.

[sigma]

I apologize for the translation. I use online translator Google. I see sometimes that he mistranslated. I adjusted as I can.

Now my response to your message:
Go to war, hero. I want to see your comments when you get back thereout. My neighbor wanted to prove to everyone that he is very cool, and went to war in Chechnya as a contract. Six months later he returned. Now he just drinks a lot and does not want to even talk to your friends, what was there.

[callmeslick]

at age 58, Sigma, I'm not likely going to war. But I've seen the effects on my friends, my cousin and others. Seldom are those effects pretty, or good.

[Tunnelcat]

If the rescue of the Soviet Union European countries from Nazi occupation which cost the lives of hundreds of thousands of Russian soldiers , fathers, sons , Americans call colonization ... I am more than confident that bolshistvo Americans piously believe that the U.S. is defeated fascism, and the Soviet Union only helped the Americans just a little .... Well, what else to talk to you ?
U.S. generally similar to drunken man from the Ku Klux Klan who can hit the black teenager to take his bike or mobile phone. U.S. does not attack the strong countries , because they are afraid to get in the face in response . But the U.S. is experiencing the pleasure of napalm to burn defenseless Vietnamese, throwing nuclear bombs on dilapidated Japan , bomb Tomahawks Negroes with guns, wage a guerrilla war against the legitimate government of Syria with the help of international Islamic mercenaries, calling them freedom fighters... A long list of infamous " military victories " USA... Moral freaks .

There's one thing I DON'T fault the Russians for, is pushing out the Nazi invaders by any means necessary. I also don't fault Russians for the scorched earth methods they used when they took back their lands, and the lands of their neighbors, from Hitler's invaders, who inflicted horrible suffering on the Russian people in their violent conquest of the East.

The real problem was when those "newly acquired lands" came under the rule of a repressive, militaristic and economically stagnant Stalinist Communism. If you don't think that style of government was bad for the people in those countries, why did those new members of the Soviet Union fight to bring down the Berlin Wall and tear open the Iron Curtain for so many years? Why did the Soviet government use fear as a necessary tool to keep the people of those countries locked behind those walls like prisoners? It certainly wasn't because they were happy about their new landlords.

[sigma]

You can reasonably say, tunnelcat, but I see that you are under the influence of certain anti-Russian propaganda. What to do, those are the rules in the USA. This is wrong. For my Russian friend one American on friendly advised to adhere to the anti-Russian ideology in the United States, or forget about the prospects for the development of its business in the U.S... That says it all But I do not understand why you talk about what that dominance " backward Stalinist regime " in the liberated countries? I hate Stalin. And nonetheless. While the " preponderance of the Soviets" was limited only to the creation of Russian military bases in territory liberated countries ? In order to avoid relapse. While the Soviet Union had full authority to annex all countries , purified from the Nazis , according to the law of indemnity ? As you turned the language called Soviet union in 1941 militaristic state? Why are you worried about the problem of postwar presence of Russian troops in the liberated European countries ? Why did you forget about the massacres German fascists of many thousands Poles, Hungarians , Czechs, etc. , not to mention the mass extermination of Ukrainian and Belarusian people ? Since the U.S. has no one tried to win, the Americans consider themselves untouchable, apparently.

[Spidey]

“according to the law of indemnity”

See…I knew we should have made Japan into a state, I mean hell, if you can keep freed land by that standard, why not the perps.

[callmeslick]

“according to the law of indemnity”

See…I knew we should have made Japan into a state, I mean hell, if you can keep freed land by that standard, why not the perps.

and, Italy, too.....think of the culinary benefits!

[Top Gun]

Man Russian history textbooks must be hilarious.

[Tunnelcat]

You can reasonably say, tunnelcat, but I see that you are under the influence of certain anti-Russian propaganda. What to do, those are the rules in the USA. This is wrong. For my Russian friend one American on friendly advised to adhere to the anti-Russian ideology in the United States, or forget about the prospects for the development of its business in the U.S... That says it all But I do not understand why you talk about what that dominance " backward Stalinist regime " in the liberated countries? I hate Stalin. And nonetheless. While the " preponderance of the Soviets" was limited only to the creation of Russian military bases in territory liberated countries ? In order to avoid relapse. While the Soviet Union had full authority to annex all countries , purified from the Nazis , according to the law of indemnity ? As you turned the language called Soviet union in 1941 militaristic state? Why are you worried about the problem of postwar presence of Russian troops in the liberated European countries ? Why did you forget about the massacres German fascists of many thousands Poles, Hungarians , Czechs, etc. , not to mention the mass extermination of Ukrainian and Belarusian people ? Since the U.S. has no one tried to win, the Americans consider themselves untouchable, apparently.

sigma, I do know about the evil of the Nazis and what horrors they brought upon the Russian people. I've read about it in many books, some translated from Russian authors. I can also understand the Russians wanting to prevent a "relapse" back into Nazism as you say it. But we were technically allies in WWII. Both of us wanted the Nazis dead and gone, forever. I can understand the fear and hatred Russian had towards Germany. But once we both had defeated the enemy, why put up the Iron Curtain and the Berlin Wall and isolate the new Russian territories from the West? Why fear an ally who helped wipe out Hitler?

[Spidey]

Maybe you should ask people like Patton….

[sigma]

If you read Russian veterans memories , then you should know that when Germany invaded the Soviet Union, the Russian people were confident of victory over Germany for a maximum of six months. Despite the fact that we were much worse armed than Germany , despite the fact that "thanks " Stalinist repression of the Russian people in the years 1938-1939 were shot 3/4 officers of the Soviet Army . I will not mention the economic exhaustion of Russia after the First World War. There really was a real hunger, the salt was even scarcer . But, about any fear then there was no question.
Of course, the U.S. seriously helped our country humanitarian aid in our fight against the invaders. Trucks , canned food, cigarettes, etc. Thanks to U.S., war ended quickly and were saved many lives. But it is also undeniable that the American troops began to help the Soviet army only when the Soviet Union's victory over Nazi Germany has already become inevitable. That is, the U.S. waited and watched from rivals who would be harder to provide military assistance to the winner. It can not be denied . It is clear that the U.S. would not send U.S. troops into a meat grinder on another war. But to say now that the United States and the Soviet Union together defeated the invaders , it loudly , to put it mildly . 90% of the burden of war borne by the Russian.

[sigma]

Interesting poll by the way. This is what I said before. http://vz.ru/politics/2014/1/9/667251.html
Quote: "Whence the threat to peace? Since liked to call books and articles Soviet propagandists. Recent worldwide survey gave this old question as old answer. Every fourth inhabitant of the Earth believes that" the greatest threat to the world "represent the United States. Dangerous Russian named only two percent of respondents. "

[Spidey]

OMG….get blamed for reading propaganda….logical response….post a propaganda site…lololol!

[callmeslick]

I don't think he's aware that there are other sites, and likely not many in Russian language available. In his defense, though, that study of world opinion was widely disseminated in a host of media/news outlets last week or so. And, also, on that topic.....No one here suggested, that I recall, that Russia was a threat to peace. In fact, I stated here and elsewhere that Russia isn't anywhere near the power player to affect much of anything to the extent Sigma seems to feel they do. So, it would make perfect sense that the US is deemed more of potential threat to peace than Russia.

[Spidey]

I made no comment on the truth of the matter…just the type of site he decided to post…you can tell a propaganda site at first glance…the image right the top is a good clue. (flag)

[sigma]

And how!
U.S. is now aggressively militaristic country suffering star fever , which is lobbying their economic interests by force of arms , ignoring the opinion of the world community and demonstrating the inadequacy of all decision-making. The impression is that all decisions about the use of U.S. armed forces to unfair pressure on other governments in the American political elite takes the influence of alcohol or drugs. This is no joke . Recently caught the American officer in charge of launching nuclear(!!!) missiles under the influence of drug intoxication . I am confident that the American people no one even informed of this fact.