I’m a Socialist and I Know What I’m Doing

[callmeslick]

wow, I talk clarity of vision, long-term and you come back with LEAK INVESTIGATIONS?? Seriously, Woody? Man, that hate-on blinds you AND makes you silly, all at once!

[woodchip]

Slick, you should know your hard on for my hate on impedes your ability to see clearly. A simple rhetorical question, how can you have clarity if everything is hidden? Simply saying the man has clarity of vision doesn't mean he really does. So unless you've got something "clearly" defined as to what his vision is then you are just blowing more smoke up the proverbial skirt.

[CUDA]

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[callmeslick]

Slick, you should know your hard on for my hate on impedes your ability to see clearly. A simple rhetorical question, how can you have clarity if everything is hidden? Simply saying the man has clarity of vision doesn't mean he really does. So unless you've got something "clearly" defined as to what his vision is then you are just blowing more smoke up the proverbial skirt.

where do you come up with 'something is hidden' by an elevated number of leak prosecutions? Hell, it doesn't mean more or less leaks, just a different attitude toward security of documents. The prior administration used leaks to blow smokescreens. You still prove nothing. Now, if you want me to elaborate his vision, I'd gladly do so. The short format, which of and by itself should get you snorting into your evening drink of choice, is this:
Obama sees, and has communicated, the core issues about our economy. We have, for 3 decades, encouraged(via tax codes and other incentives) the magnification of investment income over the value of labor income. At the same time, we have cut back on government support for basic scientific research that leads to private industry developing new products via R&D. Also, we have consistently cut infrastructure funding, all the while knowing that infrastructure breeds industrial development. To undo all these trends, and ALL would have to be undone to turn the ship around and go back to a strong-middle-class economic model, will take years, maybe decades. Which is why Obama, back in 2008,2009 kept giving this little talk and speaking of patience, and sticking to the path, etc. Selling the reality fell short for him, as I noted.....a damn shame, because he will be proven right. Very few US politicians gamble at all with long-term ideas. They make lousy sound-bites.

[Spidey]

This country is returning to a traditional middle class…professionals, merchants, entrepreneurs…etc…the time when people could live in the middle class by doing unskilled labor is long gone, and will never return as long as we have a population that demands cheap consumer products. You can build all of the infrastructure you want, but if no one buys the products produced by anyone stupid enough to start manufacturing here, the result is going to be diddly squat. Business hasn't been shipping jobs overseas due to any lack of infrastructure...not yet anyway.

Also if someone in Washington doesn’t start to put the hammer down on the Chinese stealing all of our high tech, were going to loose that sector as well.

Then of course if liberals get their way and do make drastic cuts in the military, you can pretty much kiss any manufacturing and tech industries goodbye forever…

Remember cash for clunkers….almost devastated one of the remaining hard core “Made in America” industries left…the automotive aftermarket, and hotrodding.

[callmeslick]

This country is returning to a traditional middle class…professionals, merchants, entrepreneurs…

could you show me any numbers or other data indicating that the overall number is increasing(even within the fields you cite).

etc…the time when people could live in the middle class by doing unskilled labor is long gone, and will never return as long as we have a population that demands cheap consumer products. You can build all of the infrastructure you want, but if no one buys the products produced by anyone stupid enough to start manufacturing here, the result is going to be diddly squat. Business hasn't been shipping jobs overseas due to any lack of infrastructure...not yet anyway.

yes, they have, or more accurately, our industries have lost business, and thus jobs, to nations willing to spring for infrastructure, and outright subsidize fledgling industries which have the potential to grow.

Also if someone in Washington doesn’t start to put the hammer down on the Chinese stealing all of our high tech, were going to loose that sector as well.

more frequently, they wait until the cutting edge is readily public enough to copy, subsidize the crap out of production, and low-ball the markets. Example number one--Solar technology.

Then of course if liberals get their way and do make drastic cuts in the military, you can pretty much kiss any manufacturing and tech industries goodbye forever…

really? First off, your major threat to the military, insofar as drastic cuts go, is the Libertarian segment of the political spectrum(ask Rand Paul). Secondly, more tech came out of the space program than from military hardware, and once that tech made it to the consumer segment of the economy, a lot of cash was generated.

Remember cash for clunkers….almost devastated one of the remaining hard core “Made in America” industries left…the automotive aftermarket, and hotrodding.

uh-huh.....

[Spidey]

Your line item vetoes are very amusing.

1. Never said numbers were increasing…
2. Subsides yes…infrastructure…no
3. What no counter opinion from mister know it all.
4. Libertarians aren’t likely to get their way any time soon.
5. Yup…

[callmeslick]

Your line item vetoes are very amusing.

1. Never said numbers were increasing…no, you said we were returning to a 'traditional middle class'. Now I took that to be in terms of percentage of the whole, but you seem to merely re-define middle class labor
2. Subsides yes…infrastructure…noChina subsidies, India, Japan more infrastructure and education, most are a combination of the two
3. What no counter opinion from mister know it all.no, I thought it would suffice to point out that your broad generalization was, as such tend to be, a bit off.
4. Libertarians aren’t likely to get their way any time soon.well, then you can rest more easily. Liberals aren't about to slash the military budget, for sheer political expediency as much as anything.
5. Yup…

[Spidey]

Did you ever see the argument sketch by Monty Python?

[Heretic]

Secondly, more tech came out of the space program than from military hardware

I'm a little confused about this statement. Wasn't advances in military hardware what made the space program possible?

[Spidey]

Yes, a lot of that technology that put man on the moon, was once being used to bomb the UK.

The two are highly inter-related, just take the shuttle program…when the civilian money ran out they pumped billions of military dollars into the program.

Hard to say which one produces more tech, but I doubt if there were massive military cuts, much of a space program would survive either.

A huge amount of the infrastructure that supports the space program, only exists because of military spending.

[Ferno]

Did you ever see the argument sketch by Monty Python?

I have. and no; it doesn't apply here.

[Spidey]

Yes, it does.

[Ferno]

Yes, it does.

can't tell whether you're being obtuse.. or quoting the sketch.