DescentBB

Posted: **Sat Mar 28, 2015 10:59 am**

callmeslick wrote:since you never showed one shred of proof that Iran ever did anything past set up an armed resistance against Israel in Lebanon, thirty years ago, I'll
just assume you haven't gotten much of a grasp on the rest.

Dead Jews at a Jewish community center in Argentina in 1994 probably aren't enough to count as a 'shred' for slick.

Posted: **Sat Mar 28, 2015 11:28 am**

ThunderBunny wrote: Dead Jews at a Jewish community center in Argentina in 1994 probably aren't enough to count as a 'shred' for slick.

No suspects have been convicted for the bombing and there have been many allegations made, including those blaming the government of Iran. The investigations were marred by incompetence.

According to a report in The Nation, the author claims that James Cheek, United States Ambassador to Argentina at the time of the bombing, told him, "To my knowledge, there was never any real evidence [of Iranian responsibility]. They never came up with anything."

Posted: **Sat Mar 28, 2015 11:51 am**

Ferno wrote:
ThunderBunny wrote: Dead Jews at a Jewish community center in Argentina in 1994 probably aren't enough to count as a 'shred' for slick.

No suspects have been convicted for the bombing and there have been many allegations made, including those blaming the government of Iran. The investigations were marred by incompetence.

According to a report in The Nation, the author claims that James Cheek, United States Ambassador to Argentina at the time of the bombing, told him, "To my knowledge, there was never any real evidence [of Iranian responsibility]. They never came up with anything."

What were the sources for that article? The Argentinean government? The same one covering up for Iran?

Posted: **Sat Mar 28, 2015 12:28 pm**

“It’s very important, it’s the first time in 17 years that the Iranian government has decided to help Argentina in the probe,” Timerman said in July 2011, after attending an anniversary ceremony at the Jewish center. “It’s a step forward, a very optimistic step.”

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/ ... rges-filed

ThunderBunny wrote:What were the sources for that article? The Argentinean government? The same one covering up for Iran?

The Bush Administration cites a 1994 bombing in Argentina to tar Iran as a sponsor of global terror. But a fresh probe finds no evidence of an Iran connection.

"The Whole Iran Thing Seemed Kind of Flimsy"

http://www.thenation.com/article/bushs- ... e?page=0,2#

Posted: **Sat Mar 28, 2015 12:35 pm**

Burned!

Also,

Will Robinson wrote:Can you please show us where the U.N asked us to gather surface to air missiles there and allow them to be shipped to Islamic rebels in Syria?

Posted: **Sat Mar 28, 2015 12:56 pm**

He's saying it's Hillary's fault?

LOL. this dude is really out to lunch.

Posted: **Sat Mar 28, 2015 1:47 pm**

oh, he's been out for several meals, Ferno.

Posted: **Sat Mar 28, 2015 2:18 pm**

what's truly frightening is some people want him as a leader.

Posted: **Sat Mar 28, 2015 2:24 pm**

Spidey wrote:
Vander wrote:The rise of Fundamentalist Islam is a direct result of our manipulations in pursuit of their resources.
We may have opened Pandora’s Box, but we didn’t create what came out, the potential for that was there already.

quite true, but if the idiots opening that box had bothered to do their homework, they would have realized that beforehand.

Posted: **Sat Mar 28, 2015 2:40 pm**

vision wrote:...
Will Robinson wrote:Can you please show us where the U.N asked us to gather surface to air missiles there and allow them to be shipped to Islamic rebels in Syria?
Read more.

Yea, so Paul is wrong, according to your link anyway, about how many of the missiles made it into their hands. I never claimed Paul was an authority or cited the numbers he did.

I don't know how many they got due to the U.S. State Dept. (Hillary) strategy falling apart but I know a lot of people were unhappy about how the weapons she was letting move to Syria were ending up in the hands of terrorists instead of local rebels. That list of unhappy people included the CIA and Obama who had to change the policy in light of the results. So maybe you should read, more. More than just enough to confirm your bias...

Posted: **Sat Mar 28, 2015 2:48 pm**

Will Robinson wrote: So maybe you should read, more. More than just enough to confirm your bias...

Maybe you should look into unseating yours...

The scene is a far cry from the increasingly pervasive view of a chaotic, ragtag rebel movement that has fallen under the sway of Islamist extremists.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/mid ... ml?hpid=z1

The anti-tank missiles, called TOWs, are sophisticated weapons designed to kill enemy tanks and blow up reinforced bunkers.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/worl ... -/8867817/

And let's not forget, the US is the single largest supplier of arms in the entire world.

Posted: **Sat Mar 28, 2015 3:17 pm**

Ferno wrote:“It’s very important, it’s the first time in 17 years that the Iranian government has decided to help Argentina in the probe,” Timerman said in July 2011, after attending an anniversary ceremony at the Jewish center. “It’s a step forward, a very optimistic step.”

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/ ... rges-filed

ThunderBunny wrote:What were the sources for that article? The Argentinean government? The same one covering up for Iran?

The Bush Administration cites a 1994 bombing in Argentina to tar Iran as a sponsor of global terror. But a fresh probe finds no evidence of an Iran connection.

"The Whole Iran Thing Seemed Kind of Flimsy"
http://www.thenation.com/article/bushs- ... e?page=0,2#

Laughable- if it weren't so tragic. Try this-

On July 18 1994, a suicide terrorist drove a car filled with hundreds of kilograms of explosives into the Jewish community's AMIA/DAIA building in Buenos Aires, Argentina. Eighty-five people were killed and hundreds were injured. The now infamous AMIA/DAIA bombings represent the deadliest terrorist attack in Argentina, home to the largest Jewish community in Latin America.

On May 29, 2013 Alberto Nisman, the General Prosecutor of the case involving the 1994 bombing of the AMIA Jewish center in Argentina, issued a lengthy indictment accusing the Iranian regime of infiltrating several South American countries and building local intelligence gathering facilities tasked with fostering and executing terrorist attacks. The report claims that the planning for these attacks was carried out by the Iranian government and Hezbollah.

http://www.adl.org/israel-international ... ntina.html

The same Alberto Nisman that was found dead the day before he was to elaborate on charges he made about the Argentinean president on a terrorism cover up of the Iranian involvement.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/06/world ... -says.html

Posted: **Sat Mar 28, 2015 3:35 pm**

so after SUBSEQUENT inquiries dispelled the story, TB demands that everyone simply accept the initial claims? Seriously? Because some guy kept the claim going and died after reasserting it? Sorta shaky there, TB.

Posted: **Sat Mar 28, 2015 3:38 pm**

further, let's all note that the only example that TB clings to of exporting terrorism is a single, dubious claim about an event in 1994. This is supposed to dictate dealings with Iran in 2015?

Posted: **Sat Mar 28, 2015 4:41 pm**

It wasn’t all that long ago the president of Iran was calling for the destruction of Israel, so I’m not so sure any particular timeline is all that relevant.

Posted: **Sat Mar 28, 2015 4:51 pm**

ThunderBunny wrote:Laughable- if it weren't so tragic.

Sorry, but if the Ambassador to Argentina says the story is flimsy, he kind of knows what he's talking about.

The only thing laughable is the counterexample.

the president of Iran was calling for the destruction of Israel

Ah, yes. That. It actually read

the president of Iran was calling for the destruction of Israel's regime

Roughly translated, it meant they were calling for a change in government. Kind of how "bush's regime" was "destroyed".

Posted: **Sat Mar 28, 2015 6:15 pm**

Ferno wrote:
ThunderBunny wrote:Laughable- if it weren't so tragic.
Sorry, but if the Ambassador to Argentina says the story is flimsy, he kind of knows what he's talking about.

The only thing laughable is the counterexample.

the president of Iran was calling for the destruction of Israel
Ah, yes. That. It actually read
the president of Iran was calling for the destruction of Israel's regime
Roughly translated, it meant they were calling for a change in government. Kind of how "bush's regime" was "destroyed".

I guess Ferno has the mullah's back when it comes to spewing propaganda.

Posted: **Sat Mar 28, 2015 6:32 pm**

wait, so if i'm not on the "i hate iran" bandwagon, i'm suddenly a mullah propaganda spreader?

this is a joke, right?

Posted: **Sat Mar 28, 2015 7:56 pm**

I’m not going to get into a semantic debate here, but it is well known when he referred to the Zionist Regime…he meant the state of Israel, not its government.

You don’t change government by driving something into the sea, or wiping it off of the map.

And I find it puzzling why the hell anyone would defend someone like Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. (and others within Iran, who have said the same kind of things)

Posted: **Sat Mar 28, 2015 8:00 pm**

Ferno wrote: ]

Roughly translated, it meant they were calling for a change in government. Kind of how "bush's regime" was "destroyed".

And who was doing the translating and give link

Posted: **Sat Mar 28, 2015 8:45 pm**

Spidey wrote:I’m not going to get into a semantic debate here, but it is well known when he referred to the Zionist Regime…he meant the state of Israel, not its government.

You don’t change government by driving something into the sea, or wiping it off of the map.

And I find it puzzling why the hell anyone would defend someone like Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. (and others within Iran, who have said the same kind of things)

you can't physically remove a country from the planet. that would be silly to even contemplate.

In politics, a regime is the form of government or the set of rules, cultural or social norms, etc. that regulate the operation of a government or institution and its interactions with society.

even when you're referring to the state, you're still referring to government. A state is simply a collection of people who are entrusted to run national affairs for the populace.

so... yeah. there's no semantics here. also; not really my thing to engage in semantics. I find them rather boring.

-----------

and for you woody:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fac ... _blog.html
http://www.mohammadmossadegh.com/news/r ... e-century/

Cole said this week that in the 1980s Khomeini gave a speech in which he said in Persian “Een rezhim-i eshghalgar-i Quds bayad az sahneh-i ruzgar mahv shaved.” This means, “This occupation regime over Jerusalem must vanish from the arena of time.” But then anonymous wire service translators rendered Khomeini as saying that Israel “must be wiped off the face of the map,” which Cole and Nourouzi say is inaccurate.

Juan Cole: http://www.juancole.com/about

Posted: **Sat Mar 28, 2015 8:59 pm**

Ferno wrote:wait, so if i'm not on the "i hate iran" bandwagon, i'm suddenly a mullah propaganda spreader?

this is a joke, right?

So I hate Iran? My grandfather was born in Isfahan, Iran.

I despise the mullahs in charge and their murderous need for power at all costs- not the people.

It's clear that much of the Iranian populace doesn't support the Iranian government of murderous religious fanatics- and I supported the green revolt against the regime.

Who hated Neda Sultan? She was Iranian. She was murdered by a government sniper in Iran.

Who hates Iranian homosexuals? They're hung by the dozens by the mullah regime every year just for being gay.

Posted: **Sat Mar 28, 2015 9:02 pm**

ThunderBunny wrote:
Ferno wrote:wait, so if i'm not on the "i hate iran" bandwagon, i'm suddenly a mullah propaganda spreader?

this is a joke, right?
So I hate Iran? My grandfather was born in Isfahan, Iran.

no. I said me. Try to slow down and read it again. I'm not attacking you. There should be no reason why you feel the need to attack me.

Posted: **Sat Mar 28, 2015 9:34 pm**

Dude, even if we take it your way, it still amounts to the same thing…no country has the right to destroy a foreign country’s government, and no one in Israel is going to let that happen without a fight, so the result would have to be the destruction of the country either way.

Posted: **Sat Mar 28, 2015 9:40 pm**

You can't destroy a country by taking out the government. It's the people who make the country. The US took out the Baathist government in Iraq, but Iraq is still there.

Posted: **Sat Mar 28, 2015 9:42 pm**

And who do you think is going to die defending the government.

Posted: **Sat Mar 28, 2015 9:42 pm**

Ferno wrote:You can't destroy a country by taking out the government. It's the people who make the country.

And it is the people of Israel that Iran/Hezb'allah and Hamas are trying to destroy.

Posted: **Sat Mar 28, 2015 9:46 pm**

Spidey wrote:And who do you think is going to die defending the government.

Seriously? That question has been answered many times in history in the form of soldiers.

ThunderBunny wrote:And it is the people of Israel that Iran/Hezb'allah and Hamas are trying to destroy.

Prove it.

Posted: **Sat Mar 28, 2015 9:57 pm**

Ok, correct answer, but in Israel just about every man has served in the armed services, and would probably fight.

If Ahmadinejad had his way, after the defeat of the “government” the state of Israel would be dissolved, and replaced by Palestine…those words came right out of the man’s mouth.

The only reason Iraq still exists as a nation, is by the good graces of America, same thing goes for Japan and Germany.

You better study history a little more…many countries have come and gone over the years, they are not permanent.

Many have been conquered and no longer exist.

Posted: **Sat Mar 28, 2015 10:17 pm**

Spidey wrote:Ok, correct answer, but in Israel just about every man has served in the armed services, and would probably fight.

If Ahmadinejad had his way, after the defeat of the “government” the state of Israel would be dissolved, and replaced by Palestine…those words came right out of the man’s mouth.

The only reason Iraq still exists as a nation, is by the good graces of America, same thing goes for Japan and Germany.

You better study history a little more…many countries have come and gone over the years, they are not permanent.

Many have been conquered and no longer exist.

Yes, the names may have changed and the borders may change, but the people who are from those regions have lived on. Like Mesopotamia; they now call themselves Iraqis, Saudis, Kuwaitis, and Turks.

Posted: **Sun Mar 29, 2015 6:57 am**

callmeslick wrote:further, let's all note that the only example that TB clings to of exporting terrorism is a single, dubious claim about an event in 1994. This is supposed to dictate dealings with Iran in 2015?

Perhaps you haven't been paying attention (not surprising) but Iran backed the Houthi rebels in Yemen. You know...the group that overthrew the govt. that was friendly to use. And now we have a newer wider regional war all thanks to the peace loving, we will be responsible nuke owners, Iran.

Posted: **Sun Mar 29, 2015 7:07 am**

Ferno wrote:

and for you woody:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fac ... _blog.html
http://www.mohammadmossadegh.com/news/r ... e-century/

Cole said this week that in the 1980s Khomeini gave a speech in which he said in Persian “Een rezhim-i eshghalgar-i Quds bayad az sahneh-i ruzgar mahv shaved.” This means, “This occupation regime over Jerusalem must vanish from the arena of time.” But then anonymous wire service translators rendered Khomeini as saying that Israel “must be wiped off the face of the map,” which Cole and Nourouzi say is inaccurate.
Juan Cole: http://www.juancole.com/about

And in rebuttal you may want to read this:

"But an Iranian translator and consultant supported The Times' "wiped off" or "wiped away" rendering in 2006, asserting that the Persian verb is active and transitive (Cole says the verb construction is intransitive). At the time of Ahmadinejad's speech, the Middle East Media Research Institute (MEMRI) translated the verb as "eliminated." "

http://www.thewire.com/global/2011/10/d ... map/43372/

Posted: **Sun Mar 29, 2015 7:16 am**

Ferno wrote:
Sorry, but if the Ambassador to Argentina says the story is flimsy, he kind of knows what he's talking about.

Yeah, like Ambassadors are fonts of integrity. You do know Ambassadors say what their govts. tell them? You know...kinda like Hillary going on about a video being the cause of Benghazi. Too bad she wiped the drive of her server.

Posted: **Sun Mar 29, 2015 7:33 am**

I wonder if three replies in a row indicates that it isn't Obama who is psychotic. Yeesh!

Oh, and to the one aimed at me--the US has supported countless rebel movements over the past 50 years and has a bomb, so that is at best
a flimsy defense of the position. Further, you all STILL haven't shown any tendency to support terrorist acts.

Posted: **Sun Mar 29, 2015 7:51 am**

Let me remind you once again to read up on the Iranian Quds Force

Posted: **Sun Mar 29, 2015 9:18 am**

callmeslick wrote:... Further, you all STILL haven't shown any tendency to support terrorist acts.

You are talking about Iran?

Posted: **Sun Mar 29, 2015 9:31 am**

Answer me this woody. If Iran wanted to get rid of jewish people, how come there's 8,756 jews living well in Iran? And your "rebuttal" isn't supporting your viewpoint completely.

Posted: **Sun Mar 29, 2015 9:54 am**

They were resident long before Israel became a state. And if you think the jews and other religious minorities are living in eden:

"Indiana University Professor Jamsheed Choksy recently warned that Iran was "expanding its crackdown on political, religious and social freedoms in advance of the June 14 [presidential] election."

"Even the United Nations has taken note. Last December the General Assembly approved a resolution, its 25th since 1985, criticizing Tehran for its brutal repression. "

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/doug-band ... 86340.html?

Posted: **Sun Mar 29, 2015 10:19 am**

Ferno wrote:Answer me this woody. If Iran wanted to get rid of jewish people, how come there's 8,756 jews living well in Iran? And your "rebuttal" isn't supporting your viewpoint completely.

Don’t you find it a little scary that they know the exact number?

Posted: **Sun Mar 29, 2015 11:07 am**

not really. That's like being asked if i'm scared that the leader of north korea knows how many south koreans there are.

DescentBB

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