DescentBB

I have not 'painted' you as a bigot due to lack of generosity, Will. In fact, I find your words more indicative of ingrained views than overt bigotry. That might not apply to my opinion of some others here.

callmeslick wrote:I have not 'painted' you as a bigot due to lack of generosity, Will. In fact, I find your words more indicative of ingrained views than overt bigotry. That might not apply to my opinion of some others here.

You like to move those goal posts don't you?!?
I never suggested your mischaracterization of me was tied to generosity....

You have numerous times implied I, and others, are prejudiced, bigoted, clueless to the plight of minorities, etc etc. we can find an example right here in this thread and any member of this forum has witnessed you suggesting those things often.

Why you needed to dodge between the raindrops and claim innocence based on not doing those things in reference to 'generosity' is another obvious dodge on your part.

Man up and learn to address the points raised in an honest fashion.

I've addressed those same points of yours(credit be given for consistency), for years. We aren't going to see eye to eye, and I will never agree with the loony idea that it is all due to politics and 'professional agitators', because I just don't see that as reality, anywhere.

Let's be clear on this. Will believes his great contribution to the plight of African-Americans is pointing out the racism of a few voices in the black community, who by no means speak for all black persons and in fact speak for very few. That's all. Meanwhile, Will makes the problem political and takes the stance of either "the democrats have brainwashed black people and it's hopeless to try and change this" or "black problems are their own so let them deal with it."

It's not helpful. He has no original ideas and either A) refuses to acknowledge the pressing need to address these problems, B) believes the problems are manufactured, or c) they can't be fixed. Real heroic. I guess we'll just wait until he starts another thread complaining about black people and how the Democrats have failed them, because that's what he does here.

"Lets' be clear..."

?!? Really?

vision, you had to lie about or misrepresent every point in your rant in order to get my 'position' (as you state it) to fit your indictment.

You are grasping at straws.

callmeslick wrote:I've addressed those same points of yours(credit be given for consistency), for years. We aren't going to see eye to eye, and I will never agree with the loony idea that it is all due to politics and 'professional agitators', because I just don't see that as reality, anywhere.

Here you go again. I never have said 'it is all due to politics and 'professional agitators'.
The problem arises when I'm willing to point out the negative impact those players have on 'it'. Thats when you and the other ones come out and make the kind of false characterizations of my position to try and shout down the conversation....you know....like you both just did.

I have talked about many aspects of the racial strife we have. You only want to talk about the democrat party-approved narrative. Your problem not mine.

I enjoy seeing you guys squirming around like you do.

I think what you see as 'squirming' is more out of boredom with the same old tired, toothless arguments you attempt to put forth, with no basis in reality, nor any real idea of what the core issues are in the first place. Now, carry on with your gloating over nothing at all......

Nobody has a lock on what the ”core issues” are, we all see the world from our own unique position, and will define the problems and solution from that point of view. But I find it to be a great disservice to the debate when people think they have all of the answers and the other guy should just shut up.

Will makes some very valid points, but you guys are so heavily invested in demonizing him, you can’t see it. Funny how business spends billions annually to influence people, and some here will readily admit how FOX influences all of those Republicans who spend all of their time “reproducing with their family members” but somehow black people are too smart to be influenced.

Let me give a very salient example of how black people were influenced, and it cost them dearly:

They believed the lie of integration handed to them by the liberals, and it cost them their entire accumulated black economic base.

Personally to me, that is only one of the “core issues” at work here, but as someone who believes people have more power to change themselves, then others have to change them, my set of core issues would revolve around that premise, but not limited to said.

Guys, let's ease up on the personal attacks.

Jeff250 wrote:Guys, let's ease up on the personal attacks.

I just realized you can write a bot that periodically posts in the E&C forum with a similar phrase and randomly locks threads. It would be like there were actual moderators, but no one would have to do anything.

Spidey wrote:...but somehow black people are too smart to be influenced.

No, but Will greatly exaggerates the effectiveness of those campaigns and speaks far too generally about African-Americans. The only common thread black folks share is that they all live in a country dominated by whites and they deal with a considerable amount of racism. If money and political willpower is all that's needed to manipulate people, and black folks are a "cash crop" as Will says, please explain why the Republicans are so bloody bad at influencing them? (Note: I actually know the answer to this question, but I'll give you guys a shot at it for fun.)

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Republicans are so “bloody bad” at influencing black people because they have basically written them off, and probably don’t wish to engage in a who can promise more stuff war.

Black people have been convinced that their future is in the hands of the government (a point I have been trying to make) and Republicans can never play that game, so trying to get someone to vote for you, who says things you don’t believe, like your future is really in your own hands…is a really hard sell.

Spidey wrote:Republicans are so “bloody bad” at influencing black people because they have basically written them off, and probably don’t wish to engage in a who can promise more stuff war.

somehow, they had no such problem up until the early 1970s, when the racist wing of the Dems moved to the Republicans(ideology had nothing to do with that, by the way. It was all about power politics, and influence).

Black people have been convinced that their future is in the hands of the government (a point I have been trying to make)

you keep 'trying to make' that point, and several of us have stated it to be over-generalized BS. That just is not true, as a blanket statement or even as a majority position in the African American community.

and Republicans can never play that game, so trying to get someone to vote for you, who says things you don’t believe, like your future is really in your own hands…is a really hard sell.

frankly, the GOP is every bit as good as the Dems at saying utter lies to get folks to vote for them. It's just that their range of lies is different.

callmeslick wrote:

Spidey wrote:..Black people have been convinced that their future is in the hands of the government (a point I have been trying to make)

you keep 'trying to make' that point, and several of us have stated it to be over-generalized BS. That just is not true, as a blanket statement or even as a majority position in the African American community.

It is true, there is evidence is abound! There is a whole industry unto itself to tap into the power the 'black voting block' holds. Rainbow coalition...National Action Network. There are court cases where the fight was over redistricting to dilute the power of the black voting block...etc et-frikkin-cetra.
So while you like to say it isn't a thing the real world says you are once again telling us lies. I say lies because I give you enough credit for being smart enough to know these things. You have acknowledged their existence when it serves you and now you suddenly don't know it?!? I'm not buying it.

callmeslick wrote:

Spidey wrote: and Republicans can never play that game, so trying to get someone to vote for you, who says things you don’t believe, like your future is really in your own hands…is a really hard sell.

frankly, the GOP is every bit as good as the Dems at saying utter lies to get folks to vote for them. It's just that their range of lies is different.

So now here you are acknowledging the Dem's are good at lying to manipulate voters? Lol! You contradict your self with reckless abandon...even in the same damn post.

slick's way= just say anything to contradict the 'enemy' because facts don't count for anything to his audience.

vision wrote:.... but Will greatly exaggerates the effectiveness of those campaigns and speaks far too generally about African-Americans....

But you are the guy who constantly says you didn't read what I wrote so what kind of fool would value your assessment of that which you didn't actually read?

If an oppressed minority can't look to the government for help, who can they turn to?

Be sure to read that sentence again, slowly, without preconceived ideas. Can you?

yup, Vision, that is at least a part of the design of our system of government(to prevent tyranny of the majority).

vision wrote:If an oppressed minority can't look to the government for help, who can they turn to?

Be sure to read that sentence again, slowly, without preconceived ideas. Can you?

I never said an oppressed minority shouldn't enjoy the assistance of the government. I never implied it. You needed something other than what I have actually said to be able to find a fault in it so I guess that fabrication is the best you could do.

You aren't really accomplishing anything by swinging away at your straw man though.
It's just more of you and slick playing T ball again and complimenting each other on how well you can 'hit a pitch'... as usual...

Will Robinson wrote:I never said an oppressed minority shouldn't enjoy the assistance of the government.

You absolutely demonize blacks and the welfare culture. We've all seen you do it time and time again. Yes, ideally, government assistance is temporary. But when there is a culture of oppression that spans generations, you can't hold people responsible for being oppressed, not when significant numbers of them bust their ass to overcome hardships.

Speak for yourself.

vision wrote:

Will Robinson wrote:I never said an oppressed minority shouldn't enjoy the assistance of the government.

You absolutely demonize blacks...

No I don't. I'd love for you to try to quote me demonizing any race of people.

I send plenty of blame towards some individuals who are black. You don't want to acknowledge that distinction because it takes all the sting out of your illegitimate indictment and opens the door to discuss the actual content of my comments.....

vision wrote:....and the welfare culture. We've all seen you do it time and time again.

I have pointed out many problems with the effects of welfare and yet never have suggested we do away with it. In fact I'm sure I've pointed out how it is necessary.

But that doesn't fit into your mischaracterization of me and my position so I imagine you won't acknowledge that reality either.

vision wrote:, ideally, government assistance is temporary. But when there is a culture of oppression that spans generations, you can't hold people responsible for being oppressed, not when significant numbers of them bust their ass to overcome hardships.

I've never suggested blacks are responsible for their own oppression. That is a ridiculous assertion. I do draw the parallel of some *individuals*, who are black, are responsible for nurturing the narrative that keeps their brothers and sisters in virtual chains to serve those individuals selfish interests.

But hey! You live in your own little fabricated world of 'special facts' so I probably never even pointed this stuff out! I'm probably out whipping my slaves right now instead.