DescentBB

woodchip wrote:What does being dead have to do with whether he was or wasn't a pedophile.

because, the way I was brought up, you don't really worry much about dragging the reputation of the deceased through the mud, when they are not even alive to counter. It's likely a class thing.

Ferno wrote:You may not have openly bashed gays, but here, in your very own words, you tried to connect two very different things as one and the same.

Can't believe I'm about to defend a dead guy, but so be it...

It's weirdos like Jackson that make heterosexuals label all homosexuals as nothing but pedophiles and hebephiles

This is the conflation I'm talking about. It's not him that does the connection, it's the other people's cognitive biases (yours included) that does the connection.

I called him a weirdo and possibly a homosexual hebephile. The problem is, most heteros tend to equate homosexuality with pedophilia, as far from the truth as that is, thanks to the Catholic Church. There's nothing morally wrong with being a homosexual either and the facts are that most homosexuals are not pedophiles. But there is everything wrong with either a homosexual, or heterosexual person for that matter, wanting to have sex with children. It's morally unjustified for an adult to be attracted sexually to children, period. Jackson liked having male children sleeping with him in his bed. You do the math. Most people would assume that something untoward went on. Maybe nothing happened, maybe it did, who knows? Even if those children were little girls that he allowed to sleep in his bed, would you have the same opinion? Would you let your daughter or son sleep over with a pop star who's behavior can be at best called downright strange and out of the ordinary?

By the way Ferno, do you believe that Bill Cosby may have drugged and forced himself sexually upon countless women he met casually years ago, despite the fact that the women have only come forward recently to make those accusations and that no trial has taken place to convict him of rape yet so far?

tunnelcat wrote:I called him a weirdo and possibly a homosexual hebephile. The problem is, most heteros tend to equate homosexuality with pedophilia, as far from the truth as that is, thanks to the Catholic Church. There's nothing morally wrong with being a homosexual either and the facts are that most homosexuals are not pedophiles. But there is everything wrong with either a homosexual, or heterosexual person for that matter, wanting to have sex with children. It's morally unjustified for an adult to be attracted sexually to children, period. Jackson liked having male children sleeping with him in his bed. You do the math. Most people would assume that something untoward went on. Maybe nothing happened, maybe it did, who knows? Even if those children were little girls that he allowed to sleep in his bed, would you have the same opinion? Would you let your daughter or son sleep over with a pop star who's behavior can be at best called downright strange and out of the ordinary?

You're repeating yourself again. and your appeal to emotion is noticed but not appreciated. Surely you must have something stronger?

By the way Ferno, do you believe that Bill Cosby may have drugged and forced himself sexually upon countless women he met casually years ago, despite the fact that the women have only come forward recently to make those accusations and that no trial has taken place to convict him of rape yet so far?

I withhold my opinion on that based on the fact that the case is currently being heard in court. But I'll leave you with this: innocent until proven guilty. If we forego that value, we become no better than the "justice" served at a drumhead trial.

Decisions were quick, punishments severe; appeals denied. Those who came to a drumhead were doomed.

Ferno wrote:You're repeating yourself again. and your appeal to emotion is noticed but not appreciated. Surely you must have something stronger?

Not unless I was one of the children that actually slept overnight in the same bed with Jackson, I can have no more "opinions" on the matter. And in my opinion, Jackson was a great singer, but exhibited some very bizarre behaviors that left an awful lot to most people's imaginations. To each his own.

tunnelcat wrote:

Ferno wrote:You're repeating yourself again. and your appeal to emotion is noticed but not appreciated. Surely you must have something stronger?

Not unless I was one of the children that actually slept overnight in the same bed with Jackson, I can have no more "opinions" on the matter. And in my opinion, Jackson was a great singer, but exhibited some very bizarre behaviors that left an awful lot to most people's imaginations. To each his own.

Broken record with a slice of ambiguity. Such is the answer to my question.

Let me ask you this Ferno. Do you believe that pedophilia is a crime against a child, no matter if the perpetrator is a heterosexual or a homosexual person? A child being someone who is under the age of 18 and is not considered a consenting adult. You seem to keep thinking that I'm bashing homosexuals, when in fact I'm bashing pedophiles, Michael Jackson's behavior aside.

tunnelcat wrote:Let me ask you this Ferno. Do you believe that pedophilia is a crime against a child, no matter if the perpetrator is a heterosexual or a homosexual person? A child being someone who is under the age of 18 and is not considered a consenting adult. You seem to keep thinking that I'm bashing homosexuals, when in fact I'm bashing pedophiles, Michael Jackson's behavior aside.

Loaded question, will not particpate.

This discussion is over.

Not a loaded question Ferno. It's pretty simple. IMO, pedophilia is a moral crime in most western countries, no matter the sex or sexual orientation of the perpetrator or that of the child victim. And I will acknowledge that Jackson was never proven to be a pedophile. OK? Happy? But frankly, he was still weird.

Enough beating on dead horses and dead pop stars for one thread.