DescentBB

callmeslick wrote:who made fun of THAT attempt? It failed, pathetically, of lack of traction within the GOP. It's not like anyone made that happen except the direct players.

Yes it did, and if you read my comment, all I implied was that that failure had help from outside the party, a concept I wouldn't expect you to agree with.

well, it IS one I wanted some semblance of proof of past your say-so. Should I ask one more time?

I have no “proof” it’s my opinion…take it or leave it.

What would you have me do, harvest the internet for jokes made about Republicans, then write some kind of thesis on how public opinion affects a persons choice to run for office?

Give me a break, you always talk about "facts" and "proof" but I hardly ever see either one.

Spidey, if you don't like people laughing, give us an actual example of a compassionate conservative program that's been put forth as either a proposal or something put into action? You might surprise me.

I didn’t say a word about liking or disliking the ridicule, I was just making conjecture about its affects.

Stop trying to drag me into some discussion I don’t want to have.

If you don't want to discuss the issue, then maybe don't make vague offhand comments about it in the first place?

Oh shut up, the two things are entirely different.

Not at all. You've had a long-standing habit of dipping your toe into various discussions around here, only to turn tail and scarper once someone tried to engage you on a more detailed level.

And when he doesn't, he tries to turn it around on us and blames us for it.

Isn't that right, spidey?

I made a point about how ridicule might affect a person’s behavior, and tc wants to turn it into a discussion on the validity of that ridicule.

I don’t know if the ridicule had any merit, and so I can’t make any remarks on that.

If you want to discuss whether the ridicule of Republicans had merit, please be my guest, it was not my intent to go into that aspect.

Do you want me to concede that they deserved it...fine...I don't care because that wasn't my point.

No, your point was that liberal lunatics drove out the moderates, then backtracked and said it was just an opinion when pressed.

Why can't you be honest with yourself and us for once, spidey? You dance, and you dance, and you dance all around, spitting out different things for us to try and pick through... and when any of us call you on it, you pull the 'you don't understand me' card.

You've done it to me more than once with the lame 'you suck at reading comprehension' gambit, and now you're doing it to others.

Please. Trying to snow me, one who has a university level of reading comprehension, and others who have similar levels of understanding and are just as smart is just insulting. You can either smarten up and stop playing these games, or you can continue what you do and get chewed out for it. You're a grown ass man and you should be past these gradeschool games. We try to show you respect, and then you disrespect us.

If you want to leave the discussion, that's fine. But don't try and force others to do what you want with statements like "Stop trying to drag me into......". You are not their father, and they are not your kids.

Ferno wrote:No, your point was that liberal lunatics drove out the moderates

That is a blatant lie.

Spidey wrote:That is a blatant lie.

the lunatics running the party is what we deserve when we helped the extremists drive the moderates out of the party

Don't lie to us.

If you can't even be honest with yourself, how can you expect to have a conversation with us?

Wow, you guys are getting pretty worked up over a fairly mild opinion.

Let me parse that statement so you can figure out where you made your mistake, just maybe, just possibly.

“Well…you know, the lunatics running the party is what we deserve when we helped the extremists drive the moderates out of the party, when they tried to reform it.

And by “we” I mean you liberals.”

General reference = crazy Republicans

Specific references…

“lunatics” = Republicans
“party” = Republican party
“extremists” = Republicans
“party” = Republican party
“we” = you liberals (was supposed to be humorous, but I understand nobody gets my humor)

If you can’t see your mistake…I would definitely consider suing that university.

Spidey wrote:I didn’t say a word about liking or disliking the ridicule, I was just making conjecture about its affects.

Stop trying to drag me into some discussion I don’t want to have.

You're the one who's complaining about mostly liberal people laughing at compassionate conservatism, ideas which have certainly never been implemented or acted upon as far as I can tell. They've talked the talk, but never walked the walk. Correct me if I'm wrong Spidey, I'll gladly listen. I'm open-minded. If you or the Republican Party have no proof that conservatives came up with compassionate idea and actually implemented it in their platform sometime in the past, or present, of course the party is going to invite ridicule. So what? You're all grownups. Sure, you can point out that most Christians are Republican, but I see no compassion from that camp, only hate and derision towards those who they believe are evil and won't repent or change to become "normal". Add to that an unholy love of all things Capitalist in the form of modern Prosperity Theology and you've got nothing but Godless greed, not compassion. Besides, there are plenty of Christians who are liberal as well, so it's not like Republicans have a lock on religion anyway.

So you don't like the fact that a conservative idea was being laughed at because it was never really taken seriously in the first place? Well, welcome to OUR club. NS and woodchip are constantly ridiculing everything liberal here like it's a poison that needs to be permanently eliminated from the planet. Liberals have been name called and laughed at for as long as I can remember. You don't think liberals get a good bashing from the right, take a gander at some of these whoppers. Liberals have been called "wackos", baby killers", anarchists, "pinkos", "bleeding hearts", "tree huggers", "dirty hippies", "pansies", "pussies", "snowflakes" and "Socialcrats". Hell, even the word "liberal" is a dirty word to most conservatives today. It's no wonder a lot of liberals are bitter and derisive towards conservatives and any of their "ideas".

To show I’m a good sport tc, I’ll answer your original question.

Basically the answer is “none” simply because the movement failed before enacting any policy.

See Spidey? That didn't hurt and I didn't laugh. Even the liberals have their epic fails. No one's perfect.

Spidey wrote:Let me parse that statement so you can figure out where you made your mistake, just maybe, just possibly.

“Well…you know, the lunatics running the party is what we deserve when we helped the extremists drive the moderates out of the party, when they tried to reform it.

And by “we” I mean you liberals.”

General reference = crazy Republicans

Specific references…

“lunatics” = Republicans
“party” = Republican party
“extremists” = Republicans
“party” = Republican party
“we” = you liberals (was supposed to be humorous, but I understand nobody gets my humor)

If you can’t see your mistake…I would definitely consider suing that university.

Again with the blame-shifting...

Spidey, I wouldn't be coming down on you like this had you just said "This is only my personal opinion..." or something similar at the start.

But instead, you're doubling down like a toddler and you're being condescending. It just makes you look like a crappy person, and it's bull★■◆●. Be an adult, for once.


------------------------

Liberals have been name called and laughed at for as long as I can remember. You don't think liberals get a good bashing from the right, take a gander at some of these whoppers. Liberals have been called "wackos", baby killers", anarchists, "pinkos", "bleeding hearts", "tree huggers", "dirty hippies", "pansies", "pussies", "snowflakes" and "Socialcrats". Hell, even the word "liberal" is a dirty word to most conservatives today. It's no wonder a lot of liberals are bitter and derisive towards conservatives and any of their "ideas".

Yeah, that's funny. All this time, they've thrown out as many names as there are days in the year... and as soon as they get just a little bit of their own medicine, they collectively lose their ★■◆● and scream 'POSITIVE DISCOURSE!', like somehow they're not at fault.

Well, Spidey did finally admit it, so at least give him credit for that.

You want to see a couple of people who're really into denial and are heavily into blame casting, here's your men, Drudge and Savage. I think the Republican Party is eating itself alive.

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing- ... ging-trump

Of course the "Freedom caucus" / Republican party is sabotaging Trump, Trump is part of the federal government, it is explicitly what the freedom caucus/tea party/right wing of the republican party said they would do when they were elected: Obstruct and sabotage the federal government. They are doing exactly the job they were voted in to do, it is a little late to be pissed about it now.

Or what? Making sure the government is completely worthless and can't accomplish anything productive is suddenly a problem when it isn't a democrat in the white house?

Tunnelcat wrote:Well, Spidey did finally admit it, so at least give him credit for that.

Yeah but look at how much arm-twisting it took for him to say that.

Just as long as he's a little more forthright and honest with his opinions, there won't have a problem.

You had NOTHING to do with my decision, that was completely between me and tc.

So you're saying you're fine with being dishonest and only answered her to 'be a good sport'? You're fine with throwing out an unfounded assertion and then getting all huffy when you're called on it, like you are now?

Not asking you to concede anything, just understand tossing out bull★■◆● like that undermines you, and try to fix it in the future.

Except it was you who lied…all I did was refuse to answer a question.

I’m willing to let any of the mods settle this…

If any of the mods can point to something I said that was dishonest…then yea...I have something to consider.

have to give NS credit where due. He nailed this thread when he typed the subject line.

I looked back through this mess of a thread and although Spidey was what I'd call a little evasive by dancing around the subject , I wouldn't call him a liar and I will credit him with having the temerity to answer my question.

So back to Spidey's comment that seems to have started this little sparring match.

Spidey wrote:Lol, they blame the GOP for globalization, then have the nerve to call someone else crazy.

You're right Spidey, we can't lay the blame at the feet of the GOP for the phenomenon of globalization since both parties currently cater to business interests and it's big business and big politics to trade with other countries. But in reality, it has been that way for millennia, well before Christopher Columbus discovered America. As for modern globalization, many economists have concluded that even Bill Clinton, a Democrat, capitalized on the global markets to help keep inflation low during the bull market that occurred during his presidency. So technically, you can lay some blame on Bill Clinton as well, although I'm sure that slick will argue the point.

I did some searching and found pretty much the same history all around that the link below relates. Globalization has been going on for as long as humans have figured out how to trade with other countries and finding reliable ways to transport those goods was the biggest factor. One can say that advances in transportation was the culprit in creating global trade. Once we learned how to built sturdy ships and the ability to navigate the world, all bets were off. There was money to be made. But are we victims of our own successes?

http://www.nber.org/papers/w7632

http://www.nber.org/papers/w7632.pdf

I. Globalization and World History

Globalization was a defining term of the 1990s. Optimists argued that trade with the third
world would keep American inflation low, despite ten years of high U.S growth rates, a belief that
helped underpin the great bull market of the Clinton Presidency. Pessimists argued that globalization
was boxing the world into a ‘global trap’, increasing inequality and undermining the ability of the
state to deal with pressing social problems (Martin and Schumann 1997). While they might have
disagreed about everything else, optimists and pessimists seemed to think that modern globalization
was unprecedented.

Economic historians know better. Few of us would disagree with the statement that the world
economy was in 1913 extremely well-integrated even by late 20th century standards (O’Rourke and
Williamson 1999a). World historians have gone much further. They argue that globalization is a
phenomenon which stretches back several centuries, or even several millennia.

Spidey wrote:Well…you know, the lunatics running the party is what we deserve when we helped the extremists drive the moderates out of the party, when they tried to reform it.

And by “we” I mean you liberals.

But I wouldn't blame liberals for the rift in the Republican Party Spidey. That's the Republican Party's own damn fault, not that of the liberals. But before you scream partisan at me, you should realize that the same rift is occurring within the Democratic Party too. The extreme left is pulling liberals away from the more centrist liberals. Just look at the attraction that Bernie Sanders is garnering. He's pulling many young liberals farther to the left, just as the tea party is pulling many Republicans farther to the right. Both parties are having their little schisms right now. As for the cause and the solution, that's what's up for discussion.

callmeslick wrote: have to give NS credit where due. He nailed this thread when he typed the subject line.

Well, one of us will probably have to split this thread if it keeps meandering in this direction, but you're right, the title still fits.

Just to be clear, I wasn’t blaming liberals for what happened in the Republican party, I was merely suggesting they helped.

I know you won’t agree, but I just wanted to make that clear.

And if you think my premise has no merit…where is Bee?

Yes, it has merit, I'll give you that Spidey. Every political party overreaches once they get power and liberals were in power long after FDR was gone. But don't dismiss this observation. Just as you believe that liberals helped give rise to the tea party and Freedom Caucus, liberals believe those same extremist conservative groups helped give rise to the new Bernie Sanders' glee club. One side pulls one way, the other side pulls in the opposing direction. We really need to find a happy medium in this country or we're in trouble.

I agree....

Spidey wrote:Just to be clear, I wasn’t blaming liberals for what happened in the Republican party, I was merely suggesting they helped.

I know you won’t agree, but I just wanted to make that clear.

And if you think my premise has no merit…where is Bee?

This is better. Though, it shouldn't have taken this long to do so.

I will credit him with having the temerity to answer my question.

This is all I want, too. Nothing fancy, just regular adult courtesy.

as for being called a liar; I have nothing to gain from lying, so why would I do it? I've always been straight and forthright with everyone here and it would be stupid to undo that. Liking what I said on the other hand doesn't depend on me.