DescentBB

Robert Spencer, leader of a counterjihadist movement in the U.S. and creator of JihadWatch.org. Still an anti-Muslim hate monger who hates the entire religion of Islam. Considered a right wing extremist by Homeland Security.

http://spencerwatch.com/about-robert-spencer/

Richard Spencer, a white nationalist who advocates an Aryan homeland. Definitely an right wing extremist by any stretch of the imagination.

https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate ... -spencer-0

Oh, and thank you TopGun for stating the obvious so succinctly and my apologies for derailing this thread.

TopGun wrote:If you and your mates gathered together around a statue of a Confederate general with the intent to keep it on public display, all while shouting white supremacist slogans, then ★■◆●ing right it would be a racist demonstration. I'm going to put this bluntly: you're not from the US, and you're apparently woefully ignorant of at least one prominent aspect of 19th and 20th-century American history. This is a very deliberate optic designed to recall an entire string of affronts against African-American southerners. Arguing against that is like trying to argue that draping a noose in a tree outside a predominantly-black school is just an innocent black of trolling. Sometimes a cigar is not just a cigar.

Tunnelcat wrote:Robert Spencer, leader of a counterjihadist movement in the U.S. and creator of JihadWatch.org. Still an anti-Muslim hate monger who hates the entire religion of Islam. Considered a right wing extremist by Homeland Security.

Spencer does not "hate" muslims nor is he "anti-muslim." He is anti-islam and anti-jihad. There's quite a difference.

Muslims cannot be hated for being a people because they are human beings- and many have been born into islam under no choice of their own...however ideologies like the so-called "religion" of islam (until it is reformed) are a blight on humanity.

islam = nazism in its supremacist vision of all of humanity subjugated to islam. islam also seeks to kill/destroy or subjugate the kufar, unbelievers (like you TC...YOU are KUFAR.) islam means 'submission.' Will you submit willingly?

NS, I don't give a damn if I'm considered KUFAR. I'd never accept their religion nor will I allow myself to be subjugated by it, just as I don't accept the tenets of any other religion on this earth. I don't worry about whether any religion is going to interfere with my life until it actually becomes an actual threat. I am also fully prepared to fight for my own rights if necessary. But I don't spend my entire daily life time worrying about it like a little cringing wuss or whether "Islamists" are going to kill me or force me into subission. They never will. Period. However, pre-emptive attacks and battles never solve any problems in this world and most of the time they are counterproductive, inflamatory and only exacerbate hatred and violence. What Spencer advocates is this sort of crap. It will never solve the problem and will only serve to fill the ranks of those who hate us. In fact, I consider White Nationalism to be a far bigger threat to the stability of this country than any Islamist threat.

Top Gun wrote:

Ferno wrote:So if I were to get my mates together, get some tiki torches and walk to anywhere with them lit, it's suddenly a racist demonstration?

If you and your mates gathered together around a statue of a Confederate general with the intent to keep it on public display, all while shouting white supremacist slogans, then ★■◆●ing right it would be a racist demonstration. I'm going to put this bluntly: you're not from the US, and you're apparently woefully ignorant of at least one prominent aspect of 19th and 20th-century American history. This is a very deliberate optic designed to recall an entire string of affronts against African-American southerners. Arguing against that is like trying to argue that draping a noose in a tree outside a predominantly-black school is just an innocent bit of trolling. Sometimes a cigar is not just a cigar.

Because I argue for more than one connection, because I ask for solid facts, clear intent and weight of evidence, I'm 'woefully ignorant'?

How dare you.

How dare you accuse me of being woefully ignorant when I come from a line of people who were sold into slavery.

How dare you dismiss what I've said because I'm not 'from your country'.

That is the highest form of dismissal and as a teacher, you should be ashamed of this. This sort of dismissal should be beneath you.

The funny thing is, you lambast what I say and then, at the tail of it, you actually say something that I was talking about all this time - clear intent and weight of evidence. A solid connection between intent and a group.

Had this group of people with tiki torches walked into a predominantly black neighborhood, and chanted overtly racist tirades, we would see clear intent. A provable case. Something that can be prosecuted as a hate crime.

But the only thing linking that protest to hate is the leader, who wasnt even there, only shown to be holding a torch, and that's not a lot to go on.

"Russia is our friend" isn't racist. "Blood and soil" isn't racist. Poor choice of words, probably. "You won't replace us" has been used in different forms by different groups.

Did we see "white power"? No. We saw "what brings us together is that we are white". Not inherently racist, because if 'white' was replaced with 'latino', 'black', 'asian', 'Peruvian' or any other nationality, it would be the same message.

Did we see "go home (insert racial slur here)"? No.

All I'm saying is in order to consider this a racist demonstration, there has to be more substantial evidence than what we've seen. It's not a lot to build a case on, and the accusation of racism is starting to be flung at people with less and less evidence to back it up.

Come on guys, it could just be members of the Equestrian Monument Preservation Society holding a candlelight vigil to protect a beautiful horse sculpture. It's just an unfortunate coincidence that Walmart happened to be out of candles and the human depicted in the statue was a general for the forces of sedition in support of slavery.

Tsk, tsk.

Nightshade wrote:Spencer does not "hate" muslims nor is he "anti-muslim." He is anti-islam and anti-jihad. There's quite a difference.

a close run with the other dumbass remark I cited. Read the above. You are arguing that he doesn't hate Muslims, he is just anti-Islam. In other words, he just wants to tell 1.6 Billion people to change religions. And, like you, NS, Spencer tries to rationalize his blind, idiotic hatred with parsing definitons and creating a fictitious definition of those he hates and their religion..

callmeslick wrote:a close run with the other dumbass remark I cited. Read the above. You are arguing that he doesn't hate Muslims, he is just anti-Islam. In other words, he just wants to tell 1.6 Billion people to change religions. And, like you, NS, Spencer tries to rationalize his blind, idiotic hatred with parsing definitons and creating a fictitious definition of those he hates and their religion..

Before you mixed up Richard with Robert ('cause names are so hard,) I was pointing out that free speech is under attack.

And no- Robert Spencer (and I) are merely asking that they renounce the supremacist pan-islamic elements within islam.

I am asking them to reject those directives that are antithetical to pluralistic TOLERANT civil society. Rejecting the subjugation of women, the killing of apostates, the killing of homosexuals, the destruction and subversion of western values and so on.

Is that anti-muslim?

ever grasp the concept that your norm of a 'pluralistic' society might not be what another views as 'pluralistic' or 'normal'?? There are cultural differences that you seem to miss, daily, and the idea that they just have to be more like us is rather hilarious when 'us' or a chunk of 'us' felt that Donald Trump was a leader to be proud of.

Nightshade wrote:...I am asking them to reject those directives that are antithetical to pluralistic TOLERANT civil society. Rejecting the subjugation of women, the killing of apostates, the killing of homosexuals, the destruction and subversion of western values and so on.

Is that anti-muslim?

That's why we live HERE and they live over THERE. That's also why we should keep out of their affairs and quit forcing OUR values on THEM. We keep making ourselves a target by doing that. These people will always abide by their own values and culture, as abhorrent as those values seem to us. This is and always will be a Christian-values based nation. I'm quite sure it would be a cold day in Hell before that would EVER change. If you continue to believe that this centuries-old societal foundation that makes up the very basis of our society would ever crumble, you need to move to a remote island and cower under a rock, because right now, life is too short to sweat about the stuff you cannot ever change.

funny thing...but at one time it was Islam that was the tolerant religion.

Wasn't that was centuries ago, when there was an actual Muslim Empire?