DescentBB

What cracks me the hell up is that the "Video games are too violent!" is the same damn thing as "Rap is too profane!" or "Movies are too explicit!" or "Rock and roll is evil!" or "Comic books are corrupting the youth!" or "Rhythm and blues are scandalous!" and on and on and on and on. Old farts in every generation since humanity first learned to entertain itself have railed against newer forms of entertainment they don't understand, and guess what? It's all been total bull★■◆●.

Tunnelcat wrote: ↑Tue Feb 20, 2018 2:32 pm

But then, there are other studies that show playing violent video games makes players more aggressive. Whether that increased aggression leads to someone committing actual violence against another person is something more difficult to measure. Then there's the issue of whether kids who play violent video games are predisposed to having a violent personality in the first place. So did the game make the kid violent, or was the kid predisposed to violent behavior in the first place? Either way, a couple of studies have demonstrated no tangible link between playing violent video games and someone acting out violent tendencies in real life.

https://www.cnn.com/2016/07/25/health/v ... index.html

The real cause is the devaluing of human life. Zero empathy for others is taught in schools and parents don't seem to be teaching empathy for others in their children either.

There is also a malignant sense of entitlement and disregard for rule of law.

Top Gun wrote: ↑Tue Feb 20, 2018 11:59 am Yes, if you have one sitting around your house, I question your mental state. If you want to engage in shooting competitions, keep them under lock and key at the range and use them there. Or better yet, get a hobby that doesn't involve objects intended to blow holes in people's brains.

A 5.56 was intended to blow holes in people's brains? Wut?

Nightshade wrote: ↑Tue Feb 20, 2018 10:50 pm
The real cause is the devaluing of human life. Zero empathy for others is taught in schools ....

seriously? How so.? I have three grandkids in schools with which I interact pretty often. I call bull★■◆●. Schools are teaching respect, along wilh math, English, science, etc.

Nightshade wrote: ↑Tue Feb 20, 2018 10:50 pmThe real cause is the devaluing of human life. Zero empathy for others is taught in schools and parents don't seem to be teaching empathy for others in their children either.

Wait, I thought all these "Liberal" schools were teaching kids to be too sensitive to each other and children are being coddled. Suddenly our schools are churning out psychotic drone killers? Which is it?

Flatlander wrote: ↑Wed Feb 21, 2018 6:10 am A 5.56 was intended to blow holes in people's brains? Wut?

It's a goddamn NATO round. Its sole purpose for existing is to kill people. You can't weasel around that.

You know the only thing that gives me hope in all of this is seeing that wave of angry students take to the streets of Tallahassee. Hold onto that anger. Tear down those blood-money fuckers. Drag them into the streets. Trample them. Make this a place where basic sanity still holds true.

Nightshade wrote: ↑Tue Feb 20, 2018 10:50 pm

Tunnelcat wrote: ↑Tue Feb 20, 2018 2:32 pm

But then, there are other studies that show playing violent video games makes players more aggressive. Whether that increased aggression leads to someone committing actual violence against another person is something more difficult to measure. Then there's the issue of whether kids who play violent video games are predisposed to having a violent personality in the first place. So did the game make the kid violent, or was the kid predisposed to violent behavior in the first place? Either way, a couple of studies have demonstrated no tangible link between playing violent video games and someone acting out violent tendencies in real life.

https://www.cnn.com/2016/07/25/health/v ... index.html

The real cause is the devaluing of human life. Zero empathy for others is taught in schools and parents don't seem to be teaching empathy for others in their children either.

There is also a malignant sense of entitlement and disregard for rule of law.

No, it's not always the schools, but it can sure as hell be caused the damn parents. They're the social mentors and teachers. If parents don't teach empathy and respect, their kids will never learn it. Then they'll invariably traipse off to school with no clue how to behave nicely towards others, so they promptly revert to their basal animalistic behaviors and act like bullies and shitheads towards other kids. I've seen so many cases around this country where some school has contacted the parents and tried to discipline a child who was acting inappropriately towards other children, only to run into about 90% of parents who say: "My kid did nothing wrong. He or she is always a perfect angel". Then those same parents get mad at the school for questioning the behavior their precious child and some even threaten to sue. I ran into this case so many times as a child myself. The usual group of bullies, most of the time, would be backed up by their parents when they were confronted by school officials and of course the victim, in this case me, was the one blamed for the incidents. I also saw this very behavior coming from children going to Catholic Schools, since some of my friends who went there instead of public school would tell me stories about it. Even religious upbringing isn't always a predictor of childhood angelic behavior, both on the kid's and parent's parts. A lot of times, religion will actually be responsible for creating the monsters and bullies in the first place.

There's a whole lotta political rhetoric around this issue. Look, I don't own a gun and I have no plans to ever own any guns. But there are plenty of law-abiding citizens who do exercise their second-amendment right to keep and bear arms, and I'm sure many of them are shocked and appalled at these mass killings. Go ahead and overturn the second amendment and ban all guns, I personally do not care, but I don't think that will solve anything.

I think that a special task force should be established to take a serious, in-depth, non-political look into the issue of these mass killings - maybe made up people from the FBI, CDC, some other federal and state agencies and some of the best and brightest from our top universities. The perpetrators of these mass killings should be investigated. If they are still alive and incarcerated, they should be interviewed with the intent to figure out what makes them tick and why they did what they did. For the mass killers who killed themselves, then interview everyone who knew them and try to figure out as much as possible. Also, why is it that mass killers seem to only be male?

Then, try to figure out why they did what they did, what motivated them, were there any warning signs? Can this information be used to prevent future mass killings?

This task force could also look into figuring out the best way to prevent mass killings. Gun ban? Selective gun ban? Background checks on all gun purchases? Other restrictions on gun and/or ammo purchases? Where do mass shootings happen the most? Would it be effective to try to secure these locations better? Is there really a "mental health issue" that results in mass killings, and if so, how can this best be addressed?

Then, we implement whatever is deemed most effective to prevent mass killings.

However, in the current political climate, and certainly with the Republic party in charge (party and power before country), I think the chances of anything reasonable or effective happening to be slim and none.

I don't think the mental processes that lead to mass shootings is particularly a mystery. People feeling hopelessness, powerlessness, and like they are being ignored by the world, only some of then just happen to be on the psychopathic end of the spectrum and can lash out at society like this.

The government basically declared war on the mental health industry during Regan's time in office, pretty much won the war, and the industry never recovered. Easy access to weapons combined with more or less a complete and total lack of any community or social support structure equals unchecked violence.

it's not merely a mental health issue. Next time NS wants to tell you all about those Crazy Muslims, just re-post this:

http://www.pennlive.com/news/2018/02/pa ... assau.html



there is, sadly, a religious component around guns. Some folks WANT bloodshed, strife and chaos.....because, God!

Krom wrote: ↑Tue Feb 20, 2018 10:41 am If it is just a varmint rifle, my Marlin model 60 is likely superior in pretty much every meaningful metric. Even the old bb/pellet rifle that had to be pumped up 10 times for every shot makes more sense than an AR-15 for controlling smaller rodents.

the only metric your .22 rim fire rifle is superior would be for squirrel shooting out in the woods. There is no "metric" comparison between a .22 rimfire and a .223 round past a 100 yards. So for varment and pest control on large ranches/farms where the animals are 200, 300, 400 or beyond, your marlen would fail miserably. When I say controlling rodents I mean like prairie dogs or wood chucks that dig holes and cause livestock to break legs by stepping in them...not your backyard pest chipmunk. I suggest you understand what the metrics really are.

Yes, if you have one sitting around your house, I question your mental state. If you want to engage in shooting competitions, keep them under lock and key at the range and use them there. Or better yet, get a hobby that doesn't involve objects intended to blow holes in people's brains.
[/quote]

You must be confusing America with Europe. Not too many ranges here even have facilities for you to store firearm under lock and key there.
As to your second comment, show me where they are designed to blow holes in peoples brains. It is rhetoric like this that alienates a whole segment of our population so that we wind up never doing anything to correct the problem...but then if you want to use the dead bodies of students as talking points to somehow prove you have a superior vantage point...then be my guest. Just don't complain when the next killing ground at a school occurs.

funny, my sportsmans club provides storage facilities......

BTW, I think it's important to recognize that woodchip was helpful in steering his talking points more toward compromise and away from some of the ridiculous rhetoric associated with those on the far right. Over the past couple days I've seen right-wing pundits called out hard on video/radio for dangerous lies such as "libs/dems want to confiscate guns" which absolutely no legislator is calling for. That ★■◆● isn't working anymore. People aren't putting up with the usual scare tactics. We are long overdue for addressing the problem of mass-shootings. It's time to get the ball rolling.

oh, I think those 67-33% polls in favor of actual BANS on sales of certain weapons show a certain political handwriting on the wall. As I've been trying to warn gun owners for years, either
get on board and start addressing problems with sensible solutions or have the solutions of othes jammed down your throats.

The right wing trolls have stooped to a new low in conspiracy theories, calling one of the Florida High School kids a paid crisis actor who's sole reason was to push out a liberal message at the behest of the FBI and to rile up the lefty troops. Good grief. Even Trump Jr. "liked" the tweet criticizing this kid. Trump Jr. has all the common sense and empathy of a rock.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business ... story.html

https://motherboard.vice.com/amp/en_us/ ... sandy-hook

Oh, and the kid and his family have gotten death threats from said right wing conspiracy theorists.

http://www.nydailynews.com/amp/news/nat ... -1.3836226

callmeslick wrote:oh, I think those 67-33% polls in favor of actual BANS on sales of certain weapons show a certain political handwriting on the wall. As I've been trying to warn gun owners for years, either
get on board and start addressing problems with sensible solutions or have the solutions of others jammed down your throats.

I think this time, your prediction might be right. People are really getting sick of children being mowed down in their schools by young males with mental issues wielding semiautomatic rifles. A breaking point may have finally been reached. More and more of them are voicing their concerns to the powers that be in an ever growing groundswell. It's no longer a lefty issue, anymore. Parents and kids are sick of it and it's THEIR issue now. So something will be done in reaction that will be far more overreaching than if the conservative politicians had worked out a better set of laws years ago after Columbine occurred instead of taking favors from the NRA to keep the status quo. The NRA is now poison.

woodchip wrote: ↑Thu Feb 22, 2018 11:25 am You must be confusing America with Europe. Not too many ranges here even have facilities for you to store firearm under lock and key there.

Then they should be required to in order to exist.

As to your second comment, show me where they are designed to blow holes in peoples brains. It is rhetoric like this that alienates a whole segment of our population so that we wind up never doing anything to correct the problem...but then if you want to use the dead bodies of students as talking points to somehow prove you have a superior vantage point...then be my guest. Just don't complain when the next killing ground at a school occurs.

An AR-15 is designed to kill people. Full stop. It's a semi-automatic version of a goddamn M-16. It's not a shotgun or bolt-action rifle designed for taking down game. Stop dancing around the issue like a coward.

If a certain portion of the population doesn't like being told that they're complete ★■◆●ing morons on a particular topic, they should stop acting like complete ★■◆●ing morons. Don't give me that "onoz our feelings are hurt now we won't do anything to fix things!" steaming bull★■◆●. If you won't do anything to stop kids from being killed because your feelings got hurt, then you're the biggest ★■◆●ing snowflake on the planet. Either that or complete scum. Take your pick.

Top Gun wrote: ↑Fri Feb 23, 2018 12:30 am

woodchip wrote: ↑Thu Feb 22, 2018 11:25 am You must be confusing America with Europe. Not too many ranges here even have facilities for you to store firearm under lock and key there.

Then they should be required to in order to exist.

Why? Because you think it is a good idea?

Top Gun wrote: ↑Fri Feb 23, 2018 12:30 am

As to your second comment, show me where they are designed to blow holes in peoples brains. It is rhetoric like this that alienates a whole segment of our population so that we wind up never doing anything to correct the problem...but then if you want to use the dead bodies of students as talking points to somehow prove you have a superior vantage point...then be my guest. Just don't complain when the next killing ground at a school occurs.

An AR-15 is designed to kill people. Full stop. It's a semi-automatic version of a goddamn M-16. It's not a shotgun or bolt-action rifle designed for taking down game. Stop dancing around the issue like a coward.

I suggest you stop getting all emo and start doing a little research. At the end of WW2 the main line battle rifle was the M1 Garand. Millions of these became available to the buying public. A smaller version of it was the M1 carbine. It too became available. Both can still be purchased. Later the M14 was developed. Like the AR-16 it was select fire from semi to full auto. Like the AR-16 there is a civilian version that is only semi-auto, the M1A. Millions of these rifles have been sold. Now I have to ask you (and lets see you can give a well reasoned reply) why is the AR-15 the rifle of choice. The platform design intent is the same as the other three (blow holes in people) yet where have you ever heard of a M1 Garand, M1 Carbine or a M1A being used for mass murder? I have some ideas but I'd like to hear what others might say about the matter first.

Top Gun wrote: ↑Fri Feb 23, 2018 12:30 amIf a certain portion of the population doesn't like being told that they're complete ★■◆●ing morons on a particular topic, they should stop acting like complete ★■◆●ing morons. Don't give me that "onoz our feelings are hurt now we won't do anything to fix things!" steaming bull★■◆●. If you won't do anything to stop kids from being killed because your feelings got hurt, then you're the biggest ★■◆●ing snowflake on the planet. Either that or complete scum. Take your pick.

Right and the very language and attitude you present here guarantees that nothing will get done

I believe it was an M1 that a shooter used at the U of Texas, in my childhood, to shoot a bunch of folks. Carry on.

callmeslick wrote: ↑Mon Feb 19, 2018 12:05 pm other societies have mental illness, so that isn't the reason. The gun-free zone thing is ludicrous. Mass shooters attack targets they have formulated due to bad experience or other personal ideas. They don't ever look at the status, unless maybe a military style terrorist act. Heck, we have had shootings at military bases and NSA headquarters, where one should presumed the targets/victims were well armed or at least well protected. Yup, as predicted, I go through the list and nothing past the usual deflections from the brain-dead obvious fact that we have FAR too easy access to weapons in our society, and when our society is chock full of angry, scared, stupid people, that is a recipe for the reality you see. Conservatives(using the term loosely) are simply shilling for a nakedly opportunistic lobby designed to SELL GUNS, and then deflecting every time their cheesy arguments get destroyed.

Yes, other societies have mental illness. And mass murders such as the Norway killings where 77 lives were lost. Don't look at the status? Are you seriously nuts? The shooting at the military base was not well protected as only the military police were allowed to carry arms, and like cops everywhere, were not around when actually needed...kinda like the cop who was at the Fl school who never went in to protect anyone. Turned out he was fired for being a disgrace to his uniform. Want to fill me up with more bullcrap statements? Easy access? Yes, but 99.9999% of those owners are law abiding. Change the laws regarding known potential killers and give the police the power to remove the threat instead of having the ACLU protecting the would be killers until it is too late.

Mark my words, because you are only focused on the weapon of choice, the only thing that will happen is a surge in the sale of these firearms. Concentrate on stopping potential killers instead of concentrating on a certain weapon. There are plenty of other semi-autos that would do the job just as well. As some of said, there is already a nutjob that already has his AR-15 and planning his own massacre.

I agree completely, Woody, about narrow focus on 'assault' or 'military' or whatever. ALL FIREARMS OF ALL TYPES should be far more difficult to obtain, all with far more stringent background checks, substantial waiting times(nothing draconian, I understand the clown that has to go buy the deer rifle a week before opening day), possibly personal insurance like a car. Now, i'm guessing all that isn't going to pass your muster, but as I've stated on here for a while, we'll get to a tipping point where the 60% of non-gun owners will say, ★■◆● what you wish, here's the new rules. And, I am starting to have a gut feeling we're very close to that stage.

Meanwhile, in Texas........this isn't how ANY of this is supposed to work, but
https://www.chron.com/news/houston-texa ... 704202.php

Makes one wonder if that very thing would happen to some armed teacher during the craziness and fog of some school shooting? If the police are that quick to react when they see someone standing there holding a gun in a classroom after all Hell broke loose, that's a distinct possibility. Isn't all this just lovely. Our schools are becoming war zones and the NRA supports creating all that in the name of self defense. I thought this nation grew out of it's wild west phase a long time ago.

as one of my pals wryly noted the other day, " Do YOU want to be the armed black teacher at a school when the cops show up?"

Nope. Such a capital idea, arm the teachers in order to save the kids when the cops can't even tell who's the shooter in the heat of the moment.

callmeslick wrote: ↑Sun Feb 25, 2018 8:00 am I believe it was an M1 that a shooter used at the U of Texas, in my childhood, to shoot a bunch of folks. Carry on.

Nope and it would help a little if you researched your reply instead of tayloring to fit a narrative. While the Tx shooter had 4 firearms with him, one of which was a M1 carbine, He used the Remington model 700 to do the shooting :
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... splay.html
As you can see it is a scoped hunting rifle...not any sort of scary assault rifle. As a side note the Remington 700 was used as a sniper rifle in the vietnam war as was the Winchester model 70 (used by sniper Carlos Hathcock).

Tunnelcat wrote: ↑Sun Feb 25, 2018 5:41 pm Nope. Such a capital idea, arm the teachers in order to save the kids when the cops can't even tell who's the shooter in the heat of the moment.

Yeah, I bet the Fl coach was thinking exactly the same thing and was glad he was using his body instead to defend his students.

callmeslick wrote: ↑Sun Feb 25, 2018 5:18 pm as one of my pals wryly noted the other day, " Do YOU want to be the armed black teacher at a school when the cops show up?"

Lets rephrase; "Do you want to be the living black teacher when the cops show up or your body awaiting the coroner to show up?"

woodchip wrote: ↑Mon Feb 26, 2018 8:28 am

callmeslick wrote: ↑Sun Feb 25, 2018 8:00 am I believe it was an M1 that a shooter used at the U of Texas, in my childhood, to shoot a bunch of folks. Carry on.

Nope and it would help a little if you researched your reply instead of tayloring to fit a narrative. While the Tx shooter had 4 firearms with him, one of which was a M1 carbine, He used the Remington model 700 to do the shooting :
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... splay.html
As you can see it is a scoped hunting rifle...not any sort of scary assault rifle. As a side note the Remington 700 was used as a sniper rifle in the vietnam war as was the Winchester model 70 (used by sniper Carlos Hathcock).

thanks for the history clarification. I did, at least, correctly remember him bringing an M1 up the tower. The scoped long gun part rings a bell, although it was far back in my lifetime and I wasn't going off some historical narrative. The point though shows why I am NOT in the camp of restricting one type of gun, There should be far more stringent rules around all weapons transfers.

woodchip wrote: ↑Mon Feb 26, 2018 8:32 am

callmeslick wrote: ↑Sun Feb 25, 2018 5:18 pm as one of my pals wryly noted the other day, " Do YOU want to be the armed black teacher at a school when the cops show up?"

Lets rephrase; "Do you want to be the living black teacher when the cops show up or your body awaiting the coroner to show up?"

only an arrogant privilged old white guy with zero empathy could extrapolate from one to the other.

woodchip wrote: ↑Mon Feb 26, 2018 8:29 am

Tunnelcat wrote: ↑Sun Feb 25, 2018 5:41 pm Nope. Such a capital idea, arm the teachers in order to save the kids when the cops can't even tell who's the shooter in the heat of the moment.

Yeah, I bet the Fl coach was thinking exactly the same thing and was glad he was using his body instead to defend his students.

The solution bought and paid for by the NRA and it's supporters. By the way, would YOU go up against an adolescent with a AR-15 carrying only a handgun yourself? Remember, that Fl coach was never trained in combat or police tactics. He was an athletic coach. Even an armed guard refused to go into the melee with his puny handgun. Or perhaps you think that Fl coach should've been carrying around on his shoulders an AR-15 or something bigger in his class, all in order to maybe protect his students?

callmeslick wrote: ↑Mon Feb 26, 2018 11:44 am

woodchip wrote: ↑Mon Feb 26, 2018 8:32 am

callmeslick wrote: ↑Sun Feb 25, 2018 5:18 pm as one of my pals wryly noted the other day, " Do YOU want to be the armed black teacher at a school when the cops show up?"

Lets rephrase; "Do you want to be the living black teacher when the cops show up or your body awaiting the coroner to show up?"

only an arrogant privilged old white guy with zero empathy could extrapolate from one to the other.

No, only a racist paramour would come up with " Do YOU want to be the armed black teacher at a school when the cops show up?" Equating color of ones skin and cops is the same tired, worn around the edges rhetoric that tries to sound good but in reality is a red herring. You appear to see the glass half empty while I see it as half full. Who in fact is showing more empathy for a black teacher? If we don't get beyond racist meme's, no progress will be made.

Tunnelcat wrote: ↑Mon Feb 26, 2018 5:11 pm

woodchip wrote: ↑Mon Feb 26, 2018 8:29 am

Tunnelcat wrote: ↑Sun Feb 25, 2018 5:41 pm Nope. Such a capital idea, arm the teachers in order to save the kids when the cops can't even tell who's the shooter in the heat of the moment.

Yeah, I bet the Fl coach was thinking exactly the same thing and was glad he was using his body instead to defend his students.

The solution bought and paid for by the NRA and it's supporters. By the way, would YOU go up against an adolescent with a AR-15 carrying only a handgun yourself? Remember, that Fl coach was never trained in combat or police tactics. He was an athletic coach. Even an armed guard refused to go into the melee with his puny handgun. Or perhaps you think that Fl coach should've been carrying around on his shoulders an AR-15 or something bigger in his class, all in order to maybe protect his students?

Since when is the solution paid for by the NRA? On NPR this morning a Fl legislature was saying how the NRA has actually contributed very little monetarily to Fl campaigns. Not to say that NRA approval hasn't a certain worth, but is see Fl has approved teachers being able to carry in school. The coach, if he was carrying, I suspect would have got some training. You own a pistol, are you licensed to carry it? Do you have any training in it's use? Shoot on a league, go to the range regularly? The simple fact that if you are licensed to carry compels you to get experience shooting your carry piece. At the very least TC get a CO2 pellet pistol to get the rudiments of shooting down. I recently bought a Crosman 2240 pistol in .22. The 2240 is highly modifiable and has good reviews. Get a pellet trap target box and you can shoot indoors.
Modern handguns with +P defensive ammo are hardly puny. Unless the target is wearing a good quality ballistic armor, he will go down as faster than being shot by the AR-15. I say that as the .223 round is used by the military as they wanted a round that would disable the enemy, forcing his fellow soldier to tend to him and potential make less enemy combatants available on the firing. Good theory crafting but I'm not sure how true this is.
The guard just goes to show why in the end it is up to the teacher as the final line of defense. Your liberal sensibilities will, in the end, only get you killed as people like you and slick seem to think the answer is a cell phone and calling for help. Once you get beyond this demonstrably failed idealism, perhaps you can survive a real life scenario.

I say we nationalize the gun industry. Then we provide everyone with 2 guns of their choice, with the ability to trade in their selection for another choice. And they have to take the guns. Crusty old hippies to soccer moms. We can give the homeless guns like a soup kitchen. Provide them at the border for illegal immigrants to properly equip them for American assimilation. Make sure everyone has one.

It's the only way we'll be safe.

why, Woody, should TEACHERS get this job, too?? FFS, they already educate, apparently have to provide moral and ethical guidance, provide their own teaching supplies, etc,etc.
That notion is the dumbest ★■◆●ing idea I've heard in this entire debate. It's really quite simple. I heard some weasel, perhaps Paul Ryan state, 'we don't want to prevent law abiding citizens from getting a weapon'. It seems to me we don't have the first ★■◆●ing clue when someone who gets a weapon is going to be the one who chooses to use it illegally, so we should shut down weapon sales until we 'figure it out'. Given the logic is alright by your account to apply to refugees of war zones or garden variety immigrants, you of all people, should have zero excuse not to accept that logic, right?

NY City keeps stats. Trained cops in live fire situations hit the target 18% of the time. Just the random spray of bullets we need to allow teachers to participate in around my grandkids, right? Woody, you are a parrot for complete assholes. Give it a rest.

hey, Woody.....should we issue the librarians silencers?

woodchip wrote: ↑Tue Feb 27, 2018 8:06 am No, only a racist paramour would come up with " Do YOU want to be the armed black teacher at a school when the cops show up?" Equating color of ones skin and cops is the same tired, worn around the edges rhetoric that tries to sound good but in reality is a red herring. You appear to see the glass half empty while I see it as half full. Who in fact is showing more empathy for a black teacher? If we don't get beyond racist meme's, no progress will be made.

sorry, but down South it is a very real issue. My friend teaches in the Charleston, SC system. Note what happened when someone disarmed a person in a Texas Church the other day. They've shot folks on traffic stops for being black, essentially. We are supposed to expect that Johnny Deputy in North Alabama is going to react calmly to a black teacher with a gun in his hand? Sure, Woody........

woodchip wrote: ↑Tue Feb 27, 2018 8:28 amYou own a pistol, are you licensed to carry it? Do you have any training in it's use? Shoot on a league, go to the range regularly? The simple fact that if you are licensed to carry compels you to get experience shooting your carry piece...

The guard just goes to show why in the end it is up to the teacher as the final line of defense. Your liberal sensibilities will, in the end, only get you killed as people like you and slick seem to think the answer is a cell phone and calling for help. Once you get beyond this demonstrably failed idealism, perhaps you can survive a real life scenario.

I just want to point out a few things out that rarely get talked about because the average gun rhetoric is too extreme.

First, conservatives aren't really calling for all teachers to have guns. The best argument I've heard is that there is already a certain percentage of teachers who own guns and have training, but laws exist preventing them from bringing a firearm to school. The question is, should we lift this restriction and would it have a net positive impact? The answer is not clear.

Second, arming all teachers is so impractical as to be impossible. Sure there are enough guns in existence, but who pays for the training and insurance? Also, aside from the fact some teachers don't want guns, many who do don't have time to train. Every teacher I know works a crazy amount of hours in a day, and "summer breaks" are often filled with more school work. On top of all that, not everyone who is a good teacher will also be good with a firearm. It's a different skill that needs development and many simply don't have an interest. And finally, teaching is a job that fundamentally shouldn't involve risking your life. If it does, the problem is not one solved with guns.

Third, armed teachers won't prevent school shootings. The best case scenario is that a teacher reduces the body count by intervening. That's not really a solution. School shooters often kill themselves or get killed during the rampage and from what I can tell none of them have expectations of surviving. Arming teachers simply changes the shooter's plan of attack.

Since arming teachers is not a solution by any measure, it is simply an idea for legislators to bargain with. I'm going Ok with experimenting with allowing currently licensed teachers to carry in school if, and only if, there is meaningful legislation to address the type of community building that helps identify and treat potential shooters. That same community building can carry over to treat other issues like gang violence and delinquency.