DescentBB

Going to back up Krom, Ferno, and Spidey here. Mental illness is a constant in all cultures, but it's only in the US where gun violence is this extreme. And the thing that makes us different is "gun culture" which is a collective mental illness if you want to define it that way. It's the acceptance that school shootings happen and there is nothing we can do that perpetuates the problem. The belief we are helpless and we can't change gun laws is the illness, not the individual shooter's motivations. Think all shooters will just use knives instead? Think again. Knife attacks are still rare where people don't have guns. And besides, knife attacks are way less deadly, so even the same number of knife attacks as mass shootings would be an improvement. Do you really think we would replace gun culture with knife culture? Get rid of the damn guns.

Krom wrote:Hollywood follows the culture, not the other way around.

It's true. If Hollywood stopped making movies that reflect American values they would go broke immediately.

Also just to give you a sense of where the culture stands, commonly proposed ideas to reduce gun violence:
"More armed guards at <locations similar to last big shooting>"
Zero interest in helping people with mental health issues.
"Background checks, waiting periods, red flag laws"
Zero interest in helping people with mental health issues.
"Assault weapon bans, magazine capacity limits"
Zero interest in helping people with mental health issues.
"Training and licensing requirements"
Zero interest in helping people with mental health issues.
"Helping people with mental health issues"
Zero interest in reducing gun violence.

The problem with Hollywood is not that it mirrors culture, but which aspects of culture it amplifies.

And Hollywood has glorified gun play ever since there was a Hollywood.

And don't even get me started about blurring the line between good guys and bad guys.

Spidey wrote: ↑Fri Apr 07, 2023 10:21 am "Conservatives gun culture is literally teaching children that the fastest, easiest and only way to solve problems is by shooting guns."

Really, I thought that was Hollywood's job.

Guns have been glorified in movies and TV for decades. Westerns of the 1950's showed lots of gun violence, also as a way to solve problems too. Even in kid's cartoons of the 1960's like Bugs Bunny and Johnny Quest. The difference between then and now is that blood, gore and wounds were never shown back then. The killing was sanitized and clean. No close up shots of blood, exit wounds and such. The blood shown in black and white was not red. But today, besides ultra violent movies like John Wick and late evening TV shows depicting guns being used to solve problems or as a sign of manhood, how do violent first person shooter video games play into all this? Games that attract mostly young males into contests of mass killing with the biggest baddest guns or swords that game developers could conjure up? I'm betting all this plays into our societal sickness quite a bit. Have you ever watched a broadcast of these young males playing at killing in some shooter? They laugh and joke while doing their fake pixel killing of realistically rendered opponents, all with a disconnect of those emotions to the real world.

The first recorded mass shooting in America occurred in 1949. The killer was angry at a neighbor, snapped at one small slight, got mad, grabbed a 9mm pistol and went around killing 12 people and wounding 4 within the span of 20 minutes, far more than the shooter in Nashville killed, even equipped with an assault rifle. So yes, mass shootings may be increasing in kill count and frequency, but how much of that is due to the modern media sensationalizing things and perhaps spurring on unhinged copycats bent on infamy or revenge?

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/ ... 180956927/

Did you know, that on average, ~30 people a year die from road rage incidents? People murdered because someone got pissed off at their driving. How insane is that? All sorts of weapons are used, even the car. But guns were the most frequent weapon used to kill. I don't see mass protests calling for people to stop being aggressive on the highways, do you? So yeah, we're a sick society, plus there's more of us around TO get sick or pissed off since we just emerged from a pandemic that threw everyone's social lives into turmoil. So if we're all so pissed off, what's wrong with putting in some sensible gun controls to stop gun purchases on a pissed off whim?

https://www.simplyinsurance.com/how-man ... each-year/

Ferno wrote: ↑Fri Apr 07, 2023 10:03 am I will answer your question TC, as long as you can come back with a fresh mind. You're still too wound up about it right now and we need you to calm yourself.

Go ahead, I'm all ears. So far you've been evasive to both Isaac and I.

Does Ferno always come off this misogynistic? I honestly don't know what he's normally like , but asking you to calm yourself when you've been nothing but polite is low.

Thank you for taking the time to relax TC. I hope your break was refreshing and I hope you did what you needed to do to take care of yourself.

As for being an expert on mental health, I cannot claim that. I don't possess a PhD on any of the subject matter so I would be doing a disservice towards anyone by trying to claim what the shooter has in terms of mental health. Even a passing speculation would simply be me muddying the waters.


What I can do is spot trends and patterns. I can also spot inconsistencies between what we're being told and what we witness. And I do see kneejerk commentary whenever there is a mass shooting to the point that merely commenting on a shooters' mental health is turning into a cludgel. Using 'the shooter is mentally ill' without an expert in the field saying precisely what it could be has the effect of minimizing and dismissing the entire spectrum. It's no different than saying 'x president has dementia/Parkinson's/<insert illness here>!'' I read your experience with the US medical system and I am sorry you had to go through all that. It really is no way to treat you or your father in all of that, and I could see how that could make you or anyone suspicious and distrustful. Truly, the medical system in the states is absolutely broken. Keep in mind that your experience would not have happened in a country with a competent, functional medical system. Mental illness really should be treated in an identical way to physical illness - diagnosed properly, taken care of properly and have extended care to resolution.

As for addressing Isaac, I won't. He brings absolutely nothing to the conversation.

Ferno wrote: ↑Fri Apr 07, 2023 3:39 pm As for addressing Isaac, I won't. He brings absolutely nothing to the conversation.

Projection

Ferno wrote: ↑Fri Apr 07, 2023 3:39 pmAs for addressing Isaac, I won't. He brings absolutely nothing to the conversation.

He's just using chatGPT to post anyway. No loss there.

vision wrote: ↑Sat Apr 08, 2023 10:42 am Herrp deerrp

Wrong. I haven't used it once in this thread.

Ferno, thanks for your condescending statement concerning my state of mind. I don't know why you thought I needed calming down. Because I'm a woman?

However, I do agree with you. The media and our government representatives love to throw around mental illness as a catch phrase and cheap out, because they don't have any better solution to our society's problems. But I do see it nearly every day on our streets. Just today, I drove past a man on the sidewalk. He was walking along talking to himself and flailing his arms around. I made sure not to make eye contact with him because I was stopped at a light and didn't want him approaching my car in traffic. He was definitely in some sort of mental distress. We probably have a lot of people like that living on our streets just in our small town. In the entire state, they probably number in the thousands. But most of these poor people have no inclination to obtain a gun and shoot large numbers of children or people.

So yeah, batting around mental illness whenever there's a mass shooting is a misnomer. But, how do you describe someone's state of mind who appears to have all their faculties about them and take the time to fully plan out a mass shooting and actually go through it? Are they mentally ill because they planned and acted on it, or because their actions were against societal norms? Are they just full of hate and should hate be called a mental illness or dealt with differently? Indiscriminately taking lives in reaction to some perceived slight that's been fermenting for awhile in someone's mind is definitely against societal norms.

vision wrote: ↑Fri Apr 07, 2023 10:33 am It's true. If Hollywood stopped making movies that reflect American values they would go broke immediately.

These days it's the intersection of American and Chinese values.

vision wrote: ↑Sat Apr 08, 2023 10:42 am

Ferno wrote: ↑Fri Apr 07, 2023 3:39 pmAs for addressing Isaac, I won't. He brings absolutely nothing to the conversation.

He's just using chatGPT to post anyway. No loss there.

I thought Ferno's last post smelled like ChatGPT. He's usually short, succinct and snarky. I'm usually the one who blabs on and on.

Jeff250 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 6:54 am

vision wrote: ↑Fri Apr 07, 2023 10:33 am It's true. If Hollywood stopped making movies that reflect American values they would go broke immediately.

These days it's the intersection of American and Chinese values.

I thought that as I typed it but didn't want to derail the thread. This specifically (or variation) is the argument I use when conservative friends complain about "woke" businesses. I remind them these companies are global and has nothing to do with US-centric ideas.

Tunnelcat wrote: ↑Sat Apr 08, 2023 7:57 pm Ferno, thanks for your condescending statement concerning my state of mind. I don't know why you thought I needed calming down. Because I'm a woman?

Yeah no. I show concern for your well-being and you respond with this? Even as a joke, that's pretty callous, sexist and stereotypical. It's woodchip level. The real reason I asked that of you is this: humans - male, female and everywhere in between are, at our core, are emotional animals. Think of all the times in a verbal exchange that you found yourself becoming heated in. The closer something is to us, the more traumatic something is (and your experiences with the medical industry showed this), the more defensive, combative and passionate we become. Because of this, it brings no progress or understanding if we allow ourselves to become caught up in the moment. We become much more able to process our experiences when we take a moment to pull back from our emotions and are able to compartmentalize them.

As for ChatGPT, it's pretty disappointing to see my style of writing that I've been doing for years be assigned to a bot.

how do you describe someone's state of mind who appears to have all their faculties about them and take the time to fully plan out a mass shooting and actually go through it?

I would describe that person's mind that has been radicalized, not had any responsible parties check up on them and not has had any support or worldly education given to them. Usually caused by years or even a lifetime of hatred, fear and isolation from cultures that are not his. Like what happens to people who move to or grow up in the deep south. Normal person goes in, Racist Bigot ★■◆● "shoot all <insert minority groups here>" McHateFace comes out. It's usually referred to as "being infested with brain worms". You know anyone who's moved to Florida and started living in the rural areas? How did they turn out? I'm going to guess 'about the same'.

Here's another so-called "mentally ill" person targeting LGBT+ people. Hint: he's not mentally ill, but they'll claim he is.

Ferno wrote: ↑Tue Apr 04, 2023 10:03 pm Issac, you're about as smart about mental illness as woodchip is about politics.

Which is still leagues smarter than you are about life in general. There...wasn't that a nice informative post. Lets keep meeting like this, I'm sure everyone here will learn so much.

Anyone who thinks Trump is a great leader and a smart man who cares about our country is automatically a blind idiot. And before you knee-jerk yell about Biden, I think he's become a dementia addled old man who should drop out in 2024.

woodchip wrote: ↑Tue Apr 11, 2023 7:44 am

Ferno wrote: ↑Tue Apr 04, 2023 10:03 pm Issac, you're about as smart about mental illness as woodchip is about politics.

Which is still leagues smarter than you are about life in general. There...wasn't that a nice informative post. Lets keep meeting like this, I'm sure everyone here will learn so much.

Woody, Ferno has already demonstrated misogyny towards TC (maybe in his mind he was being courteous?) and is inconsistent in his arguments. He calls people names when he thinks it helps his point, but it's just to cover his lack of consistency. He's not even talking to me because I corrected him, which is fine. That being said, I wouldn't make fun of his mental capabilities, as it's probably the best he can do and it shows.

Notice how Ferno doesn't like how we throw the word mental illness around? I didn't think anything of it at first, but Ferno projects a lot (Example: He tells TC to calm down, when he might have been the one needing to calm down.) and I wouldn't be surprised if the people we're calling insane feels like a personal attack on him in some way (example: his first post wasn't a complaint about gun violence, but with TC using the phrase "mentally ill").

My point is, don't pick on Ferno: it's punching down. I'm probably blocked so I'm not worried about offending him with this post.

Not all nations like Christians!

Isaac wrote: ↑Tue Apr 11, 2023 11:59 pm
Woody, Ferno has already demonstrated misogyny towards TC (maybe in his mind he was being courteous?) and is inconsistent in his arguments. He calls people names when he thinks it helps his point, but it's just to cover his lack of consistency. He's not even talking to me because I corrected him, which is fine. That being said, I wouldn't make fun of his mental capabilities, as it's probably the best he can do and it shows.

Notice how Ferno doesn't like how we throw the word mental illness around? I didn't think anything of it at first, but Ferno projects a lot (Example: He tells TC to calm down, when he might have been the one needing to calm down.) and I wouldn't be surprised if the people we're calling insane feels like a personal attack on him in some way (example: his first post wasn't a complaint about gun violence, but with TC using the phrase "mentally ill").

I think the only response this deserves is: LOL.

Ferno wrote: ↑Sun Apr 23, 2023 6:29 pm

Isaac wrote: ↑Tue Apr 11, 2023 11:59 pm
Woody, Ferno has already demonstrated misogyny towards TC (maybe in his mind he was being courteous?) and is inconsistent in his arguments. He calls people names when he thinks it helps his point, but it's just to cover his lack of consistency. He's not even talking to me because I corrected him, which is fine. That being said, I wouldn't make fun of his mental capabilities, as it's probably the best he can do and it shows.

Notice how Ferno doesn't like how we throw the word mental illness around? I didn't think anything of it at first, but Ferno projects a lot (Example: He tells TC to calm down, when he might have been the one needing to calm down.) and I wouldn't be surprised if the people we're calling insane feels like a personal attack on him in some way (example: his first post wasn't a complaint about gun violence, but with TC using the phrase "mentally ill").

I think the only response this deserves is: LOL.

Yes some of that is speculation, but not your misogyny or how you project your shortcomings. But if I had to bet, my speculations are correct. "LOL" is a safe response, but don't be scared of me: I'm not going to bully you because something has changed about you. Your witt has dulled considerably and I'm not sure why... I can only speculate.

LOL

Ferno wrote: ↑Tue Apr 25, 2023 10:04 pmLOL

Gg