DescentBB

i like zuruck's posting. he keeps it light and just gets his opinion out there.

you guys post these giant ass essays that i will never be assed to read for the life of me, and when people DO counter with evidence it seems pretty pointless, as you often either question the evidence source or ignore it.

we're not going to change any minds here, and argument in these boards seems to consist of a mindless rant followed by an insult towards the opposite party (whether its conservative or liberal). What zuruck does is just cut to the insult.

Zuruck wrote:Every site I go to is liberal and every site you go to is conservative.

You sure know an awful lot about my browsing habits It's too bad you're wrong, though.

But anyway... if you don't want to back your position up, that's fine -- but don't expect to get a great deal of respect that way. It's not like anyone here is denying you the ability to speak your mind -- we're just ridiculing you for not backing up what you say. The kid at the start of this thread got his props because he did back up what he said.

Vertigo 99 wrote:you guys post these giant *** essays that i will never be ***** to read for the life of me

Which is, of course, your loss. If you want to understand a topic, you have to read, and you have to read a lot.

when people DO counter with evidence... you often ... question the evidence source

OMG, you mean we actually try to evaluate the evidence? How dare we!

A lot of times, we (on all sides) do ignore evidence or question the source, because the evidence is "I did a 5 minute google search and posted 20 articles that may or may not have any relevance." Simply put, if it only took you 5 minutes to find the evidence (and you didn't know about it beforehand), it'll probably only take me 5 minutes to decide it's crap. You get no respect if you back up your position with "I searched google and posted some articles written by people who know no better than I do."

But, when people post evidence that's well thought out, it usually gets some attention. When they had a piece of evidence they've been thinking about for a while, and somebody asks them for it, it tends to be pretty good evidence and it tends to lead to pretty good discussion. And you get a lot of respect if you back up your position with evidence you've actually thought about and researched.

we're not going to change any minds here

You obviously haven't been reading for very long, then.

argument in these boards seems to consist of a mindless rant followed by an insult towards the opposite party

Didn't you just say 3 or 4 lines ago that you don't read our long posts? If so, how do you know what argument here consists of?

Your perception does not match the reality of what goes on here on this board. Argument sometimes consists of mindless rants and insults, but when people back up their positions and engage those on the other side, the mindless rants and insults are quickly pushed aside or ignored.

Again, that's why the kid at the start of this thread gets props, and that's why people like Goob and Drak tend to get props from people who disagree with them. They stand up, state their position (even if it's unpopular), and then they back it up and engage what others have to say. So, for those of you whining that you don't get enough respect, you have only yourself to blame.

Zuruck wrote:yankees won 7-1 last night.

Dammit, I hate the ****ing yankees.

But unfortunately, a lot of what Zuruch(wtfe) says is right. Of what I have read in this forum (Quite a bit more than you might think, Ive been trolling here for a while, no posting) is that a good portion of the posts are insults toward the opposing party. Bash and Woodchip for example, hate the left and probably wouldnt give a card carrying democrat the time of day. I cant think of a specific right-hating example (execpt Zuruch, but he really doesnt count) but I know there are at least two lefties here who wouldnt give republicans a dime to call their dying mothers.

The point is, theres a lot of hatred in this forum, and its getting in the way of a lot of real debate that would be possible if people would just stop hating the other viewpoint long enough to maybe listen to some rational discussion.

/hippy

Whatever. I'm gonna go get a burger.

Vader wrote:theres a lot of hatred in this forum, and its getting in the way of a lot of real debate....

Nah... there's a lot of hatred, but what gets in the way of debate is the fact that people get into sniping wars over it, and those who want serious discussion often let the haters sidetrack them.

If someone comes in and posts random hatred in your thread, just don't respond to them. Respond to the people who engage in intelligent discussion, and they'll respond in kind -- and as long as you both ignore the snipers and haters, you'll be OK.

It's hard to have a serious discussion with raving idiots posing as conservatives

Its also hard to have a conversation with a dedicated troll posing as a liberal

(edit: I cant believe I'm almost defending you right wingers...what the hell has happened to me?)

lothar, i'm all for what you do. and i don't have a problem with it. it's just that you have to understand that me and zuruck (speaking a little bit in his shoes here, but bare with me ) read / reply here for different reasons you do.

you can post long posts all you want and have large philosophical debates and whatever. I just dont have the time for it. if i want debate, ill question a conservative i know in real life - it tends to be more civil.

oh, just fyi lothar, i read about half of your post

Vertigo 99 wrote:[we] read / reply here for different reasons you do.

So why do you post here?

And, given that a lot of us post here in order to explore other world views and strengthen our own, do you think your reasons and methods of posting qualify you to get a lot of respect from us?

i read about half of your post :P

I remember one debate on here where someone countered me with "I read your post backwards". Suffice it to say, he didn't understand what my post was about. I suggested he should read it forwards and try again ;)

In any case: a couple posts ago, you told us what you think debate here consists of. But then, you say you don't read everyone's posts -- so perhaps you should consider the possibility that your perception is incorrect.