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nothing like going with the big unitFlabby Chick wrote:John Deere 6015
yes i know it's all suspension work. you have I/E and the rest is suspension, that was pretty much my point. You dumped ALL the money into the suspension, if it didn't pull 1.12 G's on the skid, then i'd feel cheated. Whereas i've put no money into suspension other than new sway bars, and i pull .91 on the skid pad.Fusion pimp wrote:Zero,
I haven't dumped much into it, actually. It's pretty much all suspension work.
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You inexperience is showing, youngin'. If I dumped twice the money I did and the car pulled .96 lats I would feel far from cheated and it started at .93... There's such a huge difference between .93 and .96.You dumped ALL the money into the suspension, if it didn't pull 1.12 G's on the skid, then i'd feel cheated.
LOL fair enoughFusion pimp wrote:heh! I just typed out a long/good post and my dog stuck her nose on my kb and it backed out of the dbb. I clicked forward and it was all gone. I'm too tired to type it all out again tonight. I'll hit ya back in the morning.
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Actually, in stock form the PGT turns a .93 latG's and the MS5 turns a .89.Now you've pointed out that yours is superior in handling, yes barry your c0ck is bigger in this instance, but only because you have spent money on SUSPENSION upgrades, whereas I have not.
My c0ck was bigger to begin with.You're right, I am not blowing smoke. I've only driven one MS5 and to be honest, I was impressed with the little thing. I'm certainly not ragging on your car. It had a ton of understeer, IMO...but, I did like the manumatic option, I'm not sure how it would perform on a track, though.I know your not blowing smoke up my a$$ i've seen the pictures and i know your not acecombat. I'm fully away of what a PGT is capable of. I'm also aware of what my car is capable of.
There are a number of cars that produce .89 latG's in production today. That doesn't mean your car handles poorly. Handling capability has vastly improved over the past 10 years. It used to be pretty rare to find a production car for less than 40g's(remember, 40g's 10 years ago was a big, BIG ticket car) that will turn low .90's. Now it's easy.Stock for Stock my car handles better than just about any FWD car in production today(keywords: production today).
I've learned not to underestimate anyone and I don't think you're a young punk. I do think that people nowdays are grossly mislead by marketing and I blame it mostly on magazines. It's not uncommon to pick-up a ricer mag and see an ad for a cat back on a Honda Civic and have them claim 8-12 hp gains. Sorry, it's a lie. You're not going to get 10hp from a 4 cyl with a CAI, it doesn't happen that way. I know there are rare( and I do mean rare) cases of this happening, but, it's not the norm. People buy into it hook-line-and-sinker. My car is a 6 cyl boasting 165/170 and without FI it's never going to be a rocket, I know this. This is why I chose to focus mostly on suspension/brake work. I chose to focus on what it's natural at and make it better instead of sinking thousands of dollars into motor work to produce 15 *real* Hp.And i'm far more experianced than you probably give me credit for. I'm not some young ricer punk who takes a honda puts a fart can, neon lights, and a big ugly wing, on a car and thinks its fast.
Nothing personal, but, everyone thinks they're a good driver. Experience is the key, get as much as you can and work at getting faster. Even naturals can't go to a track and turn wicked fast times without track experience.I'm fully aware of what my car can do, and what parts to put where. I'm also probably one of the best 19 yr old drivers you'll ever meet. I'm fully capable of Autocrossing, and have done so many times.
I didn't take it as a personal attack at all. I'm the one who started it by challenging you.This is not a personal attack on you, or a flame of anykind, i'm just pointing out the difference between your modded PGT and my fairly Stock MSP
That's awesome! Keep at it. Also, do it legally! Times have changed, things are much different than when I was a street racer(gasp!). People don't play anymore and niether do the police. 5 years ago I had a friend who lost his life over a street race.. he made a bet with a fella in a Mustang for 200.00, the Mustang lost and instead of paying, he decided to shoot my friend in the back of the head. It was uncommon for fight to break out but as the years passed it was not uncommon to hear gunfire in the crowds and often times it was full-auto's going off. That was when I called it quits. People got far to serious for me. There's no such thing as a serious street race.I just noticed you pulled the "I've been driving longer than you've been alive crap." This is normally a pretty reasonable statement, but i've raced many people who are about twice my age, and beaten many of them.
Poor analogy. Walking is a natural occurence and so are foot races. Driving is not.The i've been driving longer statement is like saying, i've been walkin longer than you've been alive therefor i'll beat you in a foot race...which is a rediculous statement. All i ask is that you not look down upon me because i'm young, and show me the same respect that i show you.
The truth is that we're both driving regular everyday cars. Nothing special.Yes Barry your car is superior...But there is a reason behind that.
Castor/Camber plates 1.5" front/2.0" rear"Just out of curiousity, what suspension work did you do to your car?
It's a 96.P.S.
What year is your car?
I would bet that we'd be more even than you think. It'll turn high 14's on a good day and mid-14's on a really good day with slicks.P.P.S.
My cars faster in a straight line
Fusion pimp wrote: Actually, in stock form the PGT turns a .93 latG's and the MS5 turns a .89.
Again Wrong car, my car comes in strictly 5 speed, no manumatic. So i do belive you may not have driven my car. MazdaSpeed Protege. It's a turbo 2.0L with limited slip in front, Bridgestone potenza 215/45ZR17 tires.You're right, I am not blowing smoke. I've only driven one MS5 and to be honest, I was impressed with the little thing. I'm certainly not ragging on your car. It had a ton of understeer, IMO...but, I did like the manumatic option, I'm not sure how it would perform on a track, though.
There are a number of cars that produce .89 latG's in production today. That doesn't mean your car handles poorly. Handling capability has vastly improved over the past 10 years. It used to be pretty rare to find a production car for less than 40g's(remember, 40g's 10 years ago was a big, BIG ticket car) that will turn low .90's. Now it's easy.
Yes i'm fully aware of the difference between whp and bhp, and i too blame the media for it as well. My car is claimed @ 170hp, where in reality it puts 150 to the wheels, which is a little higher then most cars. It is a little underrated, similar to the dodge srt4 which is claimed at 215, but actually puts down 230.I've learned not to underestimate anyone and I don't think you're a young punk. I do think that people nowdays are grossly mislead by marketing and I blame it mostly on magazines. It's not uncommon to pick-up a ricer mag and see an ad for a cat back on a Honda Civic and have them claim 8-12 hp gains. Sorry, it's a lie. You're not going to get 10hp from a 4 cyl with a CAI, it doesn't happen that way. I know there are rare( and I do mean rare) cases of this happening, but, it's not the norm. People buy into it hook-line-and-sinker. My car is a 6 cyl boasting 165/170 and without FI it's never going to be a rocket, I know this. This is why I chose to focus mostly on suspension/brake work. I chose to focus on what it's natural at and make it better instead of sinking thousands of dollars into motor work to produce 15 *real* Hp.
I concurNothing personal, but, everyone thinks they're a good driver. Experience is the key, get as much as you can and work at getting faster. Even naturals can't go to a track and turn wicked fast times without track experience.
Yea that's true, you started it =)I didn't take it as a personal attack at all. I'm the one who started it by challenging you.
Barry a street RacerThat's awesome! Keep at it. Also, do it legally! Times have changed, things are much different than when I was a street racer(gasp!).
Yes i dont' really like to street race, keeping it legal is the intelligent thing to do...I'll agree with you on that one.People don't play anymore and niether do the police. 5 years ago I had a friend who lost his life over a street race.. he made a bet with a fella in a Mustang for 200.00, the Mustang lost and instead of paying, he decided to shoot my friend in the back of the head. It was uncommon for fight to break out but as the years passed it was not uncommon to hear gunfire in the crowds and often times it was full-auto's going off. That was when I called it quits. People got far to serious for me. There's no such thing as a serious street race.
I'll Agree, but i couldn't think of something witty @ the time.Poor analogy. Walking is a natural occurence and so are foot races. Driving is not.
I'm sorry if you took it as me looking down on you, I'm not. The older I get the more I realize that when I was young and thought I knew how to drive, I didn't. There's so much to know/learn and again, it's all experience. And, in 10 years(if you're still doing this) you'll realize how much you didn't know..Believe me, I'm not ragging on you. If you're really serious about racing, my advice would be to get as much track time as you can and don't focus on what you know, focus on what you don't know. There's so much to learn. I'm sure you're already a better driver than I am, keep at it.
I Disagree, for a 19 year old kid who drives a 14 second car and makes his own payments without mommy and daddy buying it for him. I think it's very special.The truth is that we're both driving regular everyday cars. Nothing special.
That's pretty badass that it made that much of a difference. that's what heel-toe-braking is forAlso, I went with O.Z Monte Carlos in 8.5 rear and 8.0 in front. The wheels aren't the lightest( I think they came in at 8 lbs) but I wanted the extra few inches on the tires.
If I were to pick two things that I absolutely must have(minus suspension) it would be the flywheel(dropped from a portly 22lbs to 9lbs)/clutch and short throw. The thing rev/drops so quickly that I had to re-learn how to drive the car. It rev's quicker than my friends Hayabusa and drops just as quickly. If you're not constently controlling on the throttle it will drop out of band and you'll lose time. It took me a year to learn to drive it again.
I'll have to do a little researchP.S.
What year is your car?
It's a 96.
I probably would be surprised, but then again i'd have the advanatge of 10psi of booth along with a fmic, and some other nifty stuffP.P.S.
My cars faster in a straight line
I would bet that we'd be more even than you think. It'll turn high 14's on a good day and mid-14's on a really good day with slicks.
Doesn't matter. Stock, the MS Protege still pulls .89 on the skidpad.Zer0Cool wrote:well first of all lets clear one thing up right away, i havn't even gotten through you entire post. You said MS5 turns a .89. Well my car isn't an MS5, nor does it have a manumatic option. I drive a MazdaSpeed Protege. That is not a Mazda 5, it's not a mazda 3, it's not a mazda 6. In fact it's neither of those cars. It comes in 5 speed, that's it. With a shortshifter. so my assumption, is you may not have driven my car?
Barry i know you are really stuck on this whole skid pad thing, but there is more to what makes a car handle good other than what it can pull on the skidpad.
In realistic, or even circumstances?so while they may be able to make a complete circle and not skid first, my car will outhandle them in a realistic circumstance.
.89 in a stock vehicle is nothing to scoff at.You really should do a little research on my car, it has de-throned the Integra Type R for best handling fwd car. Honestly look into it, you'll be surprised at what you find, even though it only pulls .89G's it can whoop a car that pull i believe .91Gs.
I'm not talking about the difference between BHP and WHP, I'm talking about HP in general. Adding a CAI/CATBACK is not going to give you 8-12 HP.. not even BHP in a 4 banger.Yes i'm fully aware of the difference between whp and bhp, and i too blame the media for it as well. My car is claimed @ 170hp, where in reality it puts 150 to the wheels, which is a little higher then most cars. It is a little underrated, similar to the dodge srt4 which is claimed at 215, but actually puts down 230.
lol! I think you missed my point. I mean the stock capability of our cars is really nothing special. We're not driving 150K 911's.. they're everyday cars, thus- nothing special.I Disagree, for a 19 year old kid who drives a 14 second car and makes his own payments without mommy and daddy buying it for him. I think it's very special.
EVERYONE and their mother has a 13 second car nowdays. Hell, my wife has an S.H.O that will damn near run high 13's(not really, but I have to make a pointMy goal is to have my car in the 13's by the end of summer, it's lookin pretty realistic as of right now.
I think it'll turn mid-14's without a problem, though ) Not many people have cars that can REALLY handle/brake.. dare to be different! Dedman wrote:My other rides are an MD88, an MD90, a B-737-200, a B737-300, a B-737-800, a B-757, B-767, and a B-777; any of which I can ride anywhere I want for free
hmm i'm gonna ponder this one for a few and put some thought into my retortFusion pimp wrote:I fully understand that there's more to it on the track than just skidpad, which is exactly why I think track results are not a good comparison, too many variables.
In a skidpad test you're in a 200 foot circle and you accelerate smoothly until the vehicle either breaks the line or loses traction..Not many variables and it makes the test/comparison very clean and darn near error free.
How a vehicle rates on a skidpad directly translates to how the *vehicle*(not driver) can/will do on a track. A skidpad tells more than you think it does.
i'll get back to you on this one.???? i totally missed what you were gettin at here?In realistic, or even circumstances?so while they may be able to make a complete circle and not skid first, my car will outhandle them in a realistic circumstance.
I understand that it's nothing to scoff at, but what i can't understand is how many cars in the same category of cars score higher on the pad, yet my car is supposedly a better handling car. Example: the Nissan Sentra SpecV pulls .91 as does the RSX-S, and yet my car has been rated to handle better, it also feels much better in each corner, no body roll, more control...and so on. So what i don't understand is how can my car be rated to handle better than ones that score higher on a skid pad?.89 in a stock vehicle is nothing to scoff at.
Maybe i'm just nieve,(sp) but i didn't know that dyno charts lied? i mean average "sport compact car" with a CAI and a Catback exhaust that are any good will net a good 8 hp from the combined mods. or atleast that's what the dyno charts have told me...or is that a wrong assumption to go by dyno's???I'm not talking about the difference between BHP and WHP, I'm talking about HP in general. Adding a CAI/CATBACK is not going to give you 8-12 HP.. not even BHP in a 4 banger.
Yes that point i did misslol! I think you missed my point. I mean the stock capability of our cars is really nothing special. We're not driving 150K 911's.. they're everyday cars, thus- nothing special.
You're talking about the responsibility factor. I applaud you for making your own way in life.
I do plan on being different, i plan on having a car that goes fast in a straight line and goes even faster around the corners. The 13 second car isn't something that is really around that much here in the tristate (pa de nj) area.EVERYONE and their mother has a 13 second car nowdays. Hell, my wife has an S.H.O that will damn near run high 13's(not really, but I have to make a point
Remember, cars that can only go fast in a straight line is only half a car.. I have half a car, mine only goes fast around corners.
While I won't make a blanket statement like "don't trust any dyno ever!!", I will say to be cautious of dyno results. They can fluctuate between shops.Zer0Cool wrote: Maybe i'm just nieve,(sp) but i didn't know that dyno charts lied? i mean average "sport compact car" with a CAI and a Catback exhaust that are any good will net a good 8 hp from the combined mods. or atleast that's what the dyno charts have told me...or is that a wrong assumption to go by dyno's???
Tell ya a little story- When I was searching for cars, I had it narrowed down to the Type-r and the PGT/MX-6. I drove the Type-r first and the salesman told me to drive it like I stole it. heh, that was his mistake. Getting on the freeway going into a decreasing radius right-hander I put the front fascia on the pavement and I heard it grind.. The car wallowed like a drunken shopping car. We got back to the dealer and the angry salesman disappeared inside. While we were waiting for him to return(he didn't return- his boss did and literally yelled at me for driving the car that hard) I started checking under the front wheel to see what kind of damage I caused, but I couldn't find any. I started feeling under the fascia and found that a burn hole large enough to fit my fist in under the left side. It was ugly. That quickly turned me off of the Type-r. I think they're grossly overrated in terms of handling and speed. My choice was simple from there.You really should do a little research on my car, it has de-throned the Integra Type R for best handling fwd car. Honestly look into it, you'll be surprised at what you find, even though it only pulls .89G's it can whoop a car that pull i believe .91Gs.
The car has to roll some.it also feels much better in each corner, no body roll, more control...and so on. So what i don't understand is how can my car be rated to handle better than ones that score higher on a skid pad?
Well, that depends. I've seen a CAI installed that cost 200.00 that netted the car a wh00ping 2hp @ almost 6000r's, it was useless, IMO. I've seen a 600.00 catback that actually decreased HP by 7hp almost all the way through the band. I've seen them both added at the same time and the car gained 12hp @5500 but lost 2 at 3500. I've seen people add one and lose HP and then add the other and gain. Sometimes both bolt-ons are the key, it really depends on the car. Add-ons are a give and take, always.If you dyno the car today bone stock, then throw on an intake, which really doesn't take that long, and have another guy put on the exhuast, you'll net some desent gains