DescentBB

lol... although on private property that probably is legal. Also if you're driving certain vehicles.

Kur, i thought Neons had power steering since like 92-93?

kurupt wrote:most people in the states usually start at 16.

me? 12. good times.

My Granfather taught me the stick half of shift when I was 4. He would drive his 74 nissan truck, Jamie, and I would do the stick shifting at the proper time. Man, now that brings back good memories..... Have used that knowlege off and on over the years on other ppls cars/trucks. A good skill to learn, even if you don't drive.
Fus

i didnt sit on anyones lap and shift at 12, i was joyriding by then. i was a bad kid.

neons had power steering as an option, but not standard. that car had no options, it was a stripped down, $9k brand new car.

I started driving in Washington State, in the Gorge. Portland scared me until I gained more confidence. I learned stick shift. Learning how to balance clutch with gas was the most difficult part to master, especially when starting out.

fusion wrote:My Granfather taught me the stick half of shift when I was 4. He would drive his 74 nissan truck, Jamie, and I would do the stick shifting at the proper time. Man, now that brings back good memories..... Have used that knowlege off and on over the years on other ppls cars/trucks. A good skill to learn, even if you don't drive.
Fus

LOL! I did that as well... My mom would press the clutch and I would change gear. Not too good for practical experience though, since I had to do it with my left hand because of sitting on the passenger seat

Learning to drive with a manual might be difficult at first, but once you get used to it, it becomes natural. Kindof like driving a bicycle.

Then again, when taking a car to a track you have to learn everything all over again Braking technique, cornering, ideal trajectory, hand position when shifting, slightly double-clutching when downshifting, etc...

Can someone define what double clutching really is? I hear conflicting answers all the time from not-so-experienced drivers.

It can mean two things:

On older cars (very old cars) the gears were not synchronized, which means you couldn't just downshift because you'd crunch the cogs in the gearbox. You had to shift to neutral, release the clutch and rev a little, then re-press the clutch and engage lower gear.

Nowadays, all gearboxes are fitted with synchromesh units, so the cogs are automatically brought to matching speed before engaging by a set of synchronizer rings, which go into action when moving the shifter. However, when downshifting really fast at high revs, the synchronizer units take a lot of punishment because they have to synchronize the gearbox at high revs in a very short time, their action can significantly be helped by double clutching because you basically do most of it manually.

The last thing you want are shot synchromesh units

I dont really have the $$ yet to "own" my first car, but the first one I got was a hand me down, Taurus GL 1988, bought in 1987, and still running to this day. But I have to drive long distances, so my mom traded me for a 1993 Bonneville SE and she gets the Taurus. I feel very fortunate.

Next car I may get another Bonneville provided they dont bastardize the styling and also reduce the number of buttons in the interior so that it doesnt look like a scrambled ATC console.

Top Wop wrote: 1993 Bonneville SE

awww man, you should get the Bonneville SSEi

Mega Speed

Jagger wrote:Can someone define what double clutching really is? I hear conflicting answers all the time from not-so-experienced drivers.

From what I hear, double-clutching is when you clutch, bring the transmission into neutral, release the clutch so that the front of the transmission and the engine spin at the same speed, get your RPM's right, and then clutch and shift into gear. This is mostly useful when downshifting.

Essentially: there are 3 sections of the drivetrain and 2 connections. There's the engine, the front of the transmission, and the back of the transmission. The engine connects to the front of the transmission through the clutch, and the front and back of the transmission connect whenver you're in gear.

If you downshift using the clutch only once, the front half of the transmission will slow way down because it's completely disengaged, but (since you're downshifting) you really wanted it to speed up. If you double-clutch, that lets you speed up the front half of the transmission by revving the engine, so that when you shift into gear the two halves of the transmission are closer to the same RPM's and the shift is more gentle.

85 Honda Accord LX. My sister later destroyed when it got handed down after my parents bought me a camaro for high school graduation.

It was a fun little POS, didn't go very fast, but it never had a problem.

1970 'Cuda 440. Not the most stable car on wet roads.

1962 Dodge Dart, slant six, three on the tree. Radio Shack 8-track.. I had to put it together to drive it away. Wow it was ugly

AceCombat wrote:

Top Wop wrote: 1993 Bonneville SE

awww man, you should get the Bonneville SSEi

Mega Speed

I'd kill for one of those, but I was 9 years old at the time 11 years ago and thus my interests were somewhere else. The only thing I cared about with cars at that time was if I would get my own lightbulb, handle, and coathook as well as a console that blew the AC into the back, so I could care less if daddy got the lower end.

The 93's had the best craftmanship, so if I can find an SSEI in good condition of that year, id be all over it. But I have no $$$, so I will have to mooch off from my parents. :O

Edit:
http://www.bonnevilleclub.com/forum/index.php

Tricord and Lothar:

Thanks for the description. That was the last definition I was given, so with the testimony of you two, I'll believe it.

I guess I'm not very easy on syncromesh, then. Cuz chirping the tires between shifts is fun. Gotta practice this double-clutching, then.

Jagger, synchromesh has nothing to do with bringing power to the rear wheels. It is the synchronisation of the gearbox with the speed of the output shaft before engaging a gear. Once that gear is engaged, you can do what you want -- including tyre slipping and whatnot.

As Lothar and I said, synchromesh plays a significant role when downshifting, not so much when upshifting.

Don't bother double-clutching in real life though, if your transmission needs it it wasn't properly built or was mistreated by the previous owner. Like I said, it only has significant use under extreme downshifting conditions. I only using when retrograding from 4rd to 2nd without going via 3rd when racing on a track (e.g. chicane entry after straight line). The trick is to combine the double clutch action with a good braking technique. I always brake in two phases (as a safety measure), so I can tap the accelerator to double clutch between the two braking phases. I don't double-clutch when downshifting from 4th to 3rd and almost never when going from 3rd to 2nd.

yeah... I pretty much only double-clutch when I'm downshifting from 4th to 2nd for a big downhill. You don't need it for most downshifting, only when there's going to be a very high difference in engine RPM's like when you skip a gear.

Ok. That makes sense. I was unclear on the mechanics, obviously. I'm a n00b when it comes to transmissions, but most engine technology/principles I follow pretty well. I'm gettin' there!

Your driving style is actually very determining for the lifetime of the clutch and the gearbox. You can race like mad while still respecting all mechanical parts in their operation, or you can drive normally while totally raping the clutch and the gearbox.

Here are a few tips I can give:

- Never rest your arm on the gear shifter.
- Downshift as late as possible when slowing down (don't go to neutral either).
- If your car is moving while the gearbox is in neutral and you want to speed up, engage the highest gear that is comfortably possible at the slowest point.
- When braking to standstill for something sudden (e.g. a red light), don't use the clutch to disengage to neutral. It can be done without the clutch at the right moment with no crunching whatsoever.
- Use the clutch as briefly as you can to make a smooth transition. Never rest your foot on the clutch pedal. Either have it fully pressed or not at all. Minimise the time during which you "play" the pedal to take off smoothly. Never rev too much while doing this.
- Engage the first gear or reverse gear only when the car is standing still (or going very, very slowly). (in fact, as reverse isn't synchronized on my old car, I can't engage it at all without standing still. Makes a big crunch).
- There is a set of shifting movements that maximises efficiency and minimises the risk of missing a gear. I know there are sites out there that describe the movements for each possible gear transition. I'll search for it and see if I can come up with a link. It was awkward to use these movements and positions at first, but they've come quite natural now.

Sweet write-up, Tricord. I'd be very interested to see that link. Now if only I had a standard trans instead of automatic to practice... Guess I'll have to borrow my friends TT 300ZX again.

I'm sorry, I've checked two sites I thought had some description about it, but I can't find it any more. Nor does google come up with what I had in mind.

It was basically a set of pictures which show how to take the shift knob into your hand, and what movement to make to change gear.
Especially the 3rd-to-4th transition is different from normal intuitive handling, it consists (in a LHD car) to turn your wrist so that your thumb points down, then take the shifter with your hand on it's left side and pull it into 4th. This prevents you from accidentally selecting 2nd gear instead of 4th.
This approach is the reverse from what one would naturally do; that is, take the shifter on it's right side with your thumb facing upwards.