DescentBB

WarAdvocat wrote:... peacefully carrying a weapon ...

OMG!!1 Oxymoron!!1111

Seriously though. American socity is teh borked!1 by the sound of it. Need to carry guns in case you need them against others who might point their own gun at you?

I break into your house, so you shoot me.
I break into your garden shed, so you shoot me?
I trespass into your garden, so you shoot me??

Sounds like you jackasses never answer the front door without a piece ready to kill who just rang your doorbell.

Like I said: pure paranoia. I can see why dubya gets elected over there

Dang double post before the fact...

Tricord wrote: Seriously though. American socity is teh borked!1 by the sound of it. Need to carry guns in case you need them against others who might point their own gun at you?

I break into your house, so you shoot me.
I break into your garden shed, so you shoot me?
I trespass into your garden, so you shoot me??

Sounds like you jackasses never answer the front door without a piece ready to kill who just rang your doorbell.

Like I said: pure paranoia. I can see why dubya gets elected over there

Not paranoid. Trespass in garden or shed no I would not shoot anyone. But if someone is breaking in my house DONE. They know its not their house and I have no idea what their purpose is or if they are on drugs etc etc. One has a right to defend themself right? Or are you telling me you would just sit there and watch someone carry off all your gear or worse beat/stab whatever??

Tricord wrote:OMG!!1 Oxymoron!!1111

How so? A weapon is a tool. When did it become less than peaceful to carry tools? Your mind is filled with propaganda.

Tricord wrote:Seriously though. American socity is teh borked!1 by the sound of it. Need to carry guns in case you need them against others who might point their own gun at you?

No, but, we have the RIGHT to do so if we choose to. Life is funny. If someone takes yours, you don't get another one. That is a pretty scary thing, and there are plenty of people all around the world who would not hesitate to take a life just for fun.

Additionally, to paraphrase an old, tired cliche, Ask the German Jews about what happens when the populace is disarmed.

Tricord wrote: I break into your house, so you shoot me.

NOT ONLY YES, BUT HELL YES! If I discover you in my house, I will shoot you like a dog if you make a move I perceive as threatening. I have a right to be safe in my home. The law does NOT require me to run away when threatened in my home, even if I could reasonably expect to escape. I can just shoot you. If you show your lack of respect for my safety by breaking in to my home, I may show a lack of respect for your continued ability to breathe.

Tricord wrote:I break into your garden shed, so you shoot me?

No, I call the police, and keep a weapon ready in case you decide to visit the house.

Tricord wrote:I trespass into your garden, so you shoot me??

No, I call the police, and keep a weapon ready in case you decide to visit the house.

Tricord wrote:Sounds like you jackasses never answer the front door without a piece ready to kill who just rang your doorbell.

B!tch, please.

Tricord wrote:Like I said: pure paranoia. I can see why dubya gets elected over there

Watch out, your agenda is showing.

WarAdvocat wrote:

Tricord wrote:OMG!!1 Oxymoron!!1111

How so? A weapon is a tool. When did it become less than peaceful to carry tools? Your mind is filled with propaganda.

A screwdriver is a tool. A knife is a tool. Their primary use is not to injure or kill, though they can be perfectly well used for that. A weapon (gun) is by no means a tool. A weapon is just that, a weapon. Any use or even mere showing of it is hostile. I may understand you enjoy firing a gun in a range in a controlled environment, but I see no need for you to carry a gun at any other time, ever. You may argue that it is your right (in the US) to carry, but you will never convince me that it is a necessity.

It's a mentality thing. You grew up with the right to bear arms and the artifical need to actually carry. Your right to carry implies everyone elses, so everyone else is potentially a gunman. So as soon as someone acts funny or unusually, something in the back of your head says he might pull a gun, so better to hold your own gun close at hand.

A good example that too much freedom is indirectly quite restraining. The theme at hand has been "safety" lately, in the mind of the people. Or at least an impression of safety. Well, it ain't that way you're going to get it. You may feel personally safer while carrying, but you're just patching a symptom instead of solving the problem. As soon as you leave the gun home you're back where you started.

Over time, people may be safer, but more scared also. That's not a net rise on my life quality meter.
I prefer my (Belgian) right to call the cops on anybody who tells me they've got a gun. Pity you're not in Belgium. Better yet, lucky you're not in Belgium. I'm not about to bump into you anytime soon.

Ok, Tricord gets my vote for Darwin Award Nomination #35

Don't split hairs Tricord. A gun is a weapon, which is a tool for causing injury or killing. Admittedly, a gun has few other legitimate uses.

The actual statistics on outlawing guns are pretty interesting. Murder goes up. Assault goes up. Rape goes up.

Golly gee I'm glad you can call the cops though!!!!

Do us all a favor and don't try to project your irrational fear and loathing of guns onto those of us who respect guns. The sad thing is that your so called "Belgian right to call the cops" on someone with a gun ends when they point it at you.

Just FYI: Your caricature of Americans as gun-toting shoot-em-up cowboys is as amusing as it is inaccurate.

We're so far off the point here anyhow. The subject was cab driver in San Jose, Costa Rica shoots Mask Wearing Gunman. The cab driver had GOOD reason to carry a gun. Cab driving is a very UNSAFE business. Workplace Mortality by Murder is much higher than the average for Cabdrivers. Especially in wild and wooley central America. The shooting was justified. End of story.

now STFU tricord.

WarAdvocat wrote:Just FYI: Your caricature of Americans as gun-toting shoot-em-up cowboys is as amusing as it is inaccurate.

It's the impression that most of the US participants in this thread have given, isn't it? Blame yourselves on that one.

now STFU tricord.

k

Tricord wrote:I prefer my (Belgian) right to call the cops on anybody who tells me they've got a gun.

Well you must have some mighty polite bad guys over there.
I'll tell you what, you send us all those bad guys who will standby while you dial 911 and we'll send you all the bad guys over here who won't and then maybe you'll have a point.

WarAdvocat wrote:The actual statistics on outlawing guns are pretty interesting. Murder goes up. Assault goes up. Rape goes up.

Let's not forget that breaking into houses goes way up too..

Iceman wrote:Ok, Tricord gets my vote for Darwin Award Nomination #35

x2. For his defense: the US image w/ respect to guns is warped in Europe. I switched from "don't care about guns" to "allow guns" after 1st hand experience on how it works.

Even in germany you can shoot somebody breaking into your house w/ minor repercussions if the gun is illegal. If you got a legal gun just remember to shoot into the ceiling after you shot the guy -- "yes, I fired a warning shot"

Tricord wrote:It is not the task of civilians to do police work. You have no right as a civilian to punish another civilian who breaks the law...

Don't give me the self-defence crap.

Incorrect, in America (and Canada, and Britain, and quite possibly Belgium) there is a mostly-unused section of the law that deals with citizen arrest, expressly giving you as a civilian the right to stop a crime in progress.

As for self defense "crap", if you want to die like a gutted pig because it's not your job to avoid getting shot, that's your choice. I'll kill someone trying to kill me if that's the best chance of me living every time.

edit: upon rereading some statements here, I'd like to make something clear that you may not have had the misfortune to experience first-hand. The taxi driver did not shoot from a third-party, interferance standpoint. He shot because he thought he was GOING TO DIE. If he didn't shoot, he would have likely been shot, if the idiot was a real psychopath with a real gun, the only thing safe to assume when a person who is apparently a psychopath with a gun is the matter at hand.

Tricord wrote:

WarAdvocat wrote:... peacefully carrying a weapon ...

OMG!!1 Oxymoron!!1111

Seriously though. American socity is teh borked!1 by the sound of it. Need to carry guns in case you need them against others who might point their own gun at you?

That is by far the stupidest thing you've said in this thread so far. Just because we have the right to carry concealed firearms in some states (a permit is required to do so legally) doesn't mean that every single one of us does. Nice assumption there dumbass. I take it you haven't been around any gangs lately have you?

I break into your house, so you shoot me.

Damn straight. I will not hesitate to use lethal force to protect the lives of those residing with me. You break into my residence, you forfeit the right to live.

As for your "right to call the belgian police", alot of good that will do you since usually when someone breaks in they cut the phone lines. So if you have no cellular service you're screwed.

I break into your garden shed, so you shoot me?
I trespass into your garden, so you shoot me??

Now you're just blowing things way out of proportion.

Sounds like you jackasses never answer the front door without a piece ready to kill who just rang your doorbell.

Nice assumption there troll. Maybe you should spend a few years over here in the states before you criticize us next time, mmmk? You might find that life is just a TAD bit different over here.

Like I said: pure paranoia. I can see why dubya gets elected over there

Again, nice assumption troll. With an attitude like that, its no small wonder you idiots got steamrolled by the nazis. Oh yeah, I didn't vote for Dubya so take your elitism crap and shove it where the sun doesn't shine.

Tri, I actually envy people like you who live in safer societies, and I think I can begin to understand this perception you have of us. Some will say it's because of the way this country was made, what with our wars, cowboys, indians, outlaws, prohibition and the Mafia and now drugs and gangs. I don't know, I'm no anthropologist. All I know is in my lifetime I've seen this country degenerate to the point where you can get shot by just looking at someone the wrong way. I think is's a sad commentary on our society that we sometimes have to avert our glance in the fear of offending someone.

And don't get the idea that we're all a bunch of cowboys toting guns. In almost all states here it's illegal to carry without a permit. And it's damn hard to get a permit. So who carries? The gangs, drug dealers, crackheads and crazies who have little if any respect for life and property and certainly no respect for the law. Does that make some of us paranoid. I guess you could say that, because we never know where it will come from.

Just two days ago here on the University of California, Davis campus some 26 year old guy, a non-student, was acting strangely enough in front of one of the residence halls that someone called 911. As soon as officers arrived he pulled a gun and opened fire. Another Darwin candidate because he forgot one very important thing. Police are TRAINED TO SHOOT AND THEY DO IT VERY WELL. Unfortunately, he died at the scene, so we will probably never know what caused him to behave that way. Incidently, this was the first shooting involving an officer in the over 100 year history of that university.

I'm not trying to justify what we are or why we feel the way we do. I'm not really sure anyone can. But are we so bad? Look around the world, what with its wars, insurrections, jihads, cartels, genocide, etc. And then there's famine and disease. It's not a pretty picture. Maybe it's just some strange, perverted way of keeping a balance.

I break into your house, so you shoot me.
I break into your garden shed, so you shoot me?
I trespass into your garden, so you shoot me??

A la Locke, you have no reason to assume that someone who's taking your property won't take your life. By breaking into my house, you've already made clear you've broken your contract with society, and I cannot expect you to not harm me, if given the opportunity.

Exactly. Most criminals, if confronted while breaking into a house with a weapon, will not say "I've broken into your house, destroyed a desk, and stolen a VCR, but a human life is a valuble thing so i'm not going to shoot you before you call the cops."

I dressed up as a Terrorist for Halloween, and my Sister dressed up as Lady Liberty. It was quite the contrast.

I like how this thread has brought out the best in everyone.

WHAT THE HE|| ARE YA FRIGGIN TALKIN BOUT YOU PACIFIST IDIOTIC...

Oh ... Hi Goob, How ya doing?

i see differences:

some think the guy was waving the gun around, and this is why he was shot - COZ HE WAS LOOKING LIKE HE WAS GONNA SHOOT SOMEONE. immentent threat was "the aimed gun". i'm not surprised he was shot, if that's the true case. as people here have said, people waving guns ARE a very real and common threat in south america.

other people think that he was shot because he looked like Ossama Bin Laden, and this ment he was "an imminent threat". if this is the case, then i think the taxi-guy is an idiot. because Ossama Bin Laden is NOT a very real and common threat.

the Bolded parts are ultimately the polarised ideas that are butting heads in this thread, correct?

the article actually doesn't say.
what we are doing here is kindof stupid