DescentBB

Kilarin wrote:

Zuruck wrote:what if a man held you up, you capped him, then, you check his gun and realize it wasn't loaded, all he wanted was some money. Would you feel bad or feel as if justic has been done?

Both. Same as I'd feel if I killed him and the gun HAD been loaded.
I'm terribly sorry, but if you point a gun at someone you shouldn't feel surprised when they treat you as if it was loaded. A line from Niven and Pournel comes to mind...

"Think of it as Evolution in action"

Exactly. Reminds me of a certain rule of firearm safety.

"Never aim a weapon at someone unless you are pepared to use it."

Ohh, and you don't want to forget this one:

"Treat every firearm as if it were loaded and ready to fire."

Barry, what if a man held you up

I'm being held up.. the point of the robber presenting a firearm is to threaten body harm and/or death. Of course I would feel bad for having to shoot someone. I literally avoid all situations that appear unsettled because I don't want to have to present a firearm, ever. Would I feel justified? Yes.Legally and morally.

Z-
By suggesting his firearm was unloaded you're attempting to reduce the violent crime to the level of a petty gunball thief while painting me as a vicious firearm toting nutbag begging someone to get froggy so I can shoot them. Think about the intent behind what you're posting for a second. It is bass ackward. You're painting me as the bad guy and him as the victim.

I am responding to a violent action with force to pretect myself. The fact that his firearm may be unloaded makes no difference. By presenting a firearm he has already displayed a violent action with intent to cause body harm and/or death.I can only to respond to the information that is given to me.

I don't quite understand your position. In some firearm topics you tell me that firearms are bad and should be controlled because they're dangerous. Now you're telling me that there was no danger present under this scenerio.

well I just wish I shared the blood lust that you all seem to have...it seems as if you all would relish pulling a gun and wasting someone, 99% of criminals would rather not shoot you... you'd rather take your chances. you pull a gun, you will be getting 100% return fire if you're not quick enough. His gun is already out, safety off, he has the jump on you and you think you're Blondie. Doesn't seem like the smart choice, turtle and give them man what he wants. You know what happens in a bank if someone tries to be a hero? They are fired because not only did they put their life in danger, but also the lives of anyone else that might be standing there. Money simply isn't worth it.

And the witness thing doesn't work because a simple mask covers identity. Nice try though.

His gun is already out, safety off, he has the jump on you and you think you're Blondie.

Doesn't matter if his gun is out... criminals carry unloaded firearms, remember?!

Zuruck,

One thing I have noticed is that you have completely diregarded my responses to your questions.Instead, you pose a different set of questions designed to get the response you're looking for rather than rationally responding to my answers. I think my responses are valuable enough to warrent a rebuttal instead of degrading me to a blood thirty killer.

I believe my responses were exactly what you didn't want to hear, and since they make wayyyy too much sense, it's easier to ask a different s

et of questions designed to project what you think about firearm owners and those who refuse to roll over and be victimized.


Can I get an Amen?

Zuruck wrote:And the witness thing doesn't work because a simple mask covers identity. Nice try though.

Oh really? Funny, everytime I see a convenience store robbery video on TV not too many of them are wearing masks.

If they were wearing masks, why would they show it on TV?

Gooberman wrote:If they were wearing masks, why would they show it on TV?

You're talking about an organization that spent how long on Clinton, and 911? Its NEWS.

Two days and absolutely nothing from Zuruck.
I am a bit disappointed, Z.. I though you were different than the rest of the bleeding hearts that are full of good intentions and no practical means to implement them.

I've been sidetracked with the church post thing. where are we at with this?

The neat thing about the net is that it records everything that is posted so you can go back and catch-up on threads that you've neglected.

Hahha....yah I know. Cop out to say I'm bored with the topic. You know how I stand on guns, I don't feel they are that necessary. In some circumstances for protection I understand them, but when it can be avoided, give it a shot. Standing up to a burglar with other civilians around brings their lives into harm's way when it could be easily solved by handing over the money. Nobody likes to be the wimp, but I'd rather be a wimp for 10 minutes than dead forever.

In some circumstances for protection I understand them,

Fair enough... but, what are those circumstances? I don't know about you, but I don't have the ability to pick and chose when, where or who is going to victimize me.

Unfortunately, the bad guys generally don't respect the imaginary boundry we've all set in place to avoid being victimized.

Let's turn it around. How do you propose we deal with criminals who want the money and want to take your life? Prison? Okay, but that doesn't solve the victims problem, he's dead.

Okay- I'm going to have to assume that your opinion is based on emotion rather than a well thought out collection of facts.
I've answered every question you've asked, but you haven't answered a single question I posted. By saying you've lost interest,in my eyes, means you've run out of material(emotion only takes you so far). You keep reducing the conversation to a projection of how you view firearm owners' behavior and their lust to kill.
How about providing me some answers to my questions? Even better would be a solution to the problem we've been discussing.

If you'd rather not, at least give me the courtesy of saying so.

Z, you know my post about the home invasion I made.. what would you do in a situation like that?

Good shooting, not nice shooting. Shooting isn't nice, but good shooting works... Just a technicality I know. I just had to interject. BTW, most criminals are cowards, weigh your odds and do as you must, you have about .2 seconds... go Years of IPSC taught me that much ... good post