DescentBB

Some good news from me for a change. I've done 172 cubes of N'Tala Shadowy Corridors today.

The level will barely fit under 900 I think, even though I'm trying to use cubes economically. It's gonna be huge and sprawling. And full of hexagons.

I've made the changes on the door lights and wall monitors, there may be one you can't smash but it's a monitor showing only static, not a self destruct light. I dunno.

Regardless, I'm not sure I can come through on adding puzzles/switches/secrets to this level. I just can't sacrifice any cubes without making the level smaller than it already is. I guess I like to go really detail heavy from the start, instead of building the level skeleton and adding detail after. I don't know if it will still fit in the Vertigo section, but hopefully it's okay as is.

I have ideas for another, metal-themed level. If I do work on it, I'll be sure to conserve cubes. I already know it will be bigger though.

Kaizerwolf wrote:I've made the changes on the door lights and wall monitors, there may be one you can't smash but it's a monitor showing only static, not a self destruct light. I dunno.

Regardless, I'm not sure I can come through on adding puzzles/switches/secrets to this level. I just can't sacrifice any cubes without making the level smaller than it already is. I guess I like to go really detail heavy from the start, instead of building the level skeleton and adding detail after. I don't know if it will still fit in the Vertigo section, but hopefully it's okay as is.

I have ideas for another, metal-themed level. If I do work on it, I'll be sure to conserve cubes. I already know it will be bigger though.

Great news! I'll be waiting eagerly for the level. One smallish level with barely any secrets is fine, we just ought not to make it the rule.

As for the monitor with the static - it is actually also a self-destruct variant that you can't pop. If you insist on having that monitor inside the level then you can easily use the regular variant, just change the frames using the POG editor - that way you'll both have the static and the monitor will be shatterable.

Xfing wrote:
Great news! I'll be waiting eagerly for the level. One smallish level with barely any secrets is fine, we just ought not to make it the rule.

I'll be sure to add better secrets to another level, I have a lot of ideas for one!

Xfing wrote:
As for the monitor with the static - it is actually also a self-destruct variant that you can't pop. If you insist on having that monitor inside the level then you can easily use the regular variant, just change the frames using the POG editor - that way you'll both have the static and the monitor will be shatterable.

Taken care of. I couldn't get the original monitor texture to revert properly (it stayed un-shatterable) so it's been replaced with an already shattered monitor!

Edit: Like I said in an earlier post, I've got a lot of ideas for another metal-themed level. I'd love to take on level 38, Virus Research Lab 665, if that's okay! I promise I'll be economically cube-friendly, and I'll try to liberally add secrets in!

Kaizerwolf wrote:
Taken care of. I couldn't get the original monitor texture to revert properly (it stayed un-shatterable) so it's been replaced with an already shattered monitor!

That's because the frames you were trying to change were probably from a texture hardcoded to not be shatterable, i.e. a self-destruct texture. What I was suggesting was to change the regular texture, the monitor in its default state, so misc065, and not misc065d. But I guess the way it is now is also fine.

Edit: Like I said in an earlier post, I've got a lot of ideas for another metal-themed level. I'd love to take on level 38, Virus Research Lab 665, if that's okay! I promise I'll be economically cube-friendly, and I'll try to liberally add secrets in!

Sure! But consider this level's name. Virus lab - they're researching the alien virus there. 665. This is the number next to 666, and this name was thought up purposely. The level is supposed to be ominous, evil and brutally hard to beat. The way I envision it, it has many matcen traps and purple sections, with liberal amounts of the standard gray wall from D1. Purple was sadly underused in D1 and completely absent from D2 - the level I'm working on right now will feature all 5 purple textures from the original D1 texture collection, and ad nauseam, throughout the level's entirety or most of it. I'm not telling you to do the same, but I think purple would work very well in a level themed after a lab dedicated to studying an alien virus. I've always thought purple to be much more badass, ominous and cool to look at than D2 Omega System's green.

EDIT: Also - how could I forget - it's a lab! So copious use of the white lab textures is practically mandatory

Good news for you, purple is one of my favorite colors! I'll definitely be able to play around with it, I'll be having a lot of fun building this one too!

Is there a pog file that contains the purple textures, or should I download and import them manually?

What do you think?

I know xfing has the final word, but in my opinion it looks excellent!!

I also think it looks fantastic! Just be cautious not to let the detail consume too many cubes early on.

As for the textures, I'm sure you've already figured it out. The POG files contain only textures that would be harderst to replace manually to speed up the work, all remaining textures are to be inserted manually - the folder is uploaded on Dropbox and is called "ExclusiveTX". Inside are four subfolders, three for D1-exclusive textures (two for Alien 1/2 and Ice transparency colors) and one for D2-exclusives.

I guess I'll do some work on my own level today, though I might not be able to post any screenshots as that would require finished texture work. I've come to think that it is better to first handle the geometry, much faster work that way.

EDIT: 475 cubes in. I'm still not sure if I'll make it under 900. I'll probably just make the level as I think it should be, then try to cut down on the cube count. We'll see - there are still no matcens, triggers or secrets which would require some additional cubes. The geometry already does look promising, though - the level is entirely different from most of my recent levels utilizing compact designs with lots of flying in little space - this mine takes a loooooot of space. And it's gonna take even more once I'm done with it. Sadly this also means quite a bit of backtracking through the level, but I'll try making some matcens here and there to keep the tempo high. First I need to finish the geometry though - then I'll look at the gameplay aspects.

Finally getting my lazy butt around to uploading Coolyard Station and Fata Morgana Tunnels.

Coolyard:
http://www.enspiar.com/dmdb/viewMission.php?id=1055
Made bigger than the original, and completely rearranged. I did use the start room from the original coolyard as a sort of hub, but the area that failed to acquire approval has been changed to a little area that used the block and concept of the Wing N'drsaedt 1 staircase room. Also, for a change, I didn't add robots! (Though I did add a few powerups. )

Fata:
http://www.enspiar.com/dmdb/viewMission.php?id=1056
A smallish countdown-style Baloris Prime secret level with its fair share of puzzles (can't forget the evil "maze" puzzles for the Shaker and Fusion, with that matcen there. :lol:)

Working on BC11 take 3 (or is it 4? ). I think that it will be called De'gaffa Station.

P.S. Am I correct in saying that N'tala is inspired by Lava Tubes from Lost Levels?

LightWolf wrote: P.S. Am I correct in saying that N'tala is inspired by Lava Tubes from Lost Levels?

Not sure it is, as I don't really remember that level very well. As for inspirations, I can only think of ones that are apparent inadvertently once the layout has been made. These include D1 level 27 (all the purple stuff, purple everywhere!) and level 21 (tunnels, wide and long). The hexagon overdose doesn't seem to come from any particular level, it was my idea - though I'm sure it's been explored in some levels I don't know about as well.

I'm checking out your levels.

EDIT:

Coolyard Station is alright. The size is appropriate, the geometry is good and the texture scheme is spot on. This feels alright for a Zeta Aquilae level. Overall, I'd say the level is up to par, so I have no qualms about it being included as of now, but first I'll let others check out the level too and scan it for... inspirations

As for Fata Morgana... I didn't think I would be saying that, but it's actually a fairly acceptable secret level! It's smallish, but I guess it's alright - the puzzles are numerous and there's a lot of potential for filling up the level with goodies. The texture scheme looks very good, props for that! I think the level could work, but as with Coolyard station, I'll gather more feedback first. Some stuff will definitely need to be changed, like the pointless detail of using red doorlights on the door next to the exit. And the exit itself - secret levels in D2 use only teleporters, no exits. Otherwise, good work! Just pray that no one sees previously used content in these levels, haha!

EDIT 2:

Actually, seeing how there are few secret level spots, I can't guarantee this level's inclusion. The secret levels have all got to be stellar, there is no room for one slightly weaker level either, since the progression is altogether different. We'll choose some spots for the secret levels once there are more contributions.

Just a quick update!







Trying to use the purple liberally, and make it dark and foreboding. I've got a few secrets now, one that should be tough to crack, but it's coming along well! There are also matcens... everywhere...

Coolyard Station looks good to me so far (haven't quite finished it). Only thing I'd do is add a bit more detail to the start room, it looks very primitive compared to the rest of the mine and I don't like the way the entrance to the upper tunnel looks from the start position. Also just uploading that music track I mentioned into the OST folder, which I've renamed to "DCA 2".

EDIT: I just played the rest of the way through Coolyard; and consider me officially impressed, Lightwolf... the only things apart from the start room: the textures in the yellow key room seem to clash with the rest of the mine, maybe use something a little more subdued... I can definitely see the possibility for still making that room a contrast to the rest of the mine without outright clashing. And maybe some flowing textures on the walls there...
And the second red door should use the lights, not the stripes. Plenty of doors in the parallax missions had the stripes next to them and they weren't actually keyed.

Also Xfing, was just taking a look through Eris Military Base and I liked what I saw, except the blue key area with the doors one on top of the other; they look like if they were physical objects and not 2D walls they'd overlap each other when they opened. Maybe move the room where they meet back a little bit so you can put the upper one a little bit higher? Or find another solution...
And there are some really weird textures in Sedna, I don't know if they're supposed to be there. But I also can't play the latest version so I don't know if that's even a problem anymore, and I can't fix it in DLE.

A chronic problem I've been seeing on all the vertigo levels so far is a that there're too many types of vertigo bots all over. Most of the vertigo series levels were themed around three or four of them, with only one or two actually appearing frequently. I think the way to solve this is for most of the vertigo bots to start popping up in places before that actual part of the mission, just like the Descent 2 bots pop up in the Descent 1 maps. That way you're not so pressed to throw all of them at the player at once.

Oh btw, I did a small (2 key) boss map in May that could fit somewhere in here. It could fit with either fire or fatty boss and the only thing I did unusually was because of the size of the boss room, I put two of the boss in... otherwise it got pretty easy. But that can get re-balanced with matcens or something. And I'm thinking of doing another non-XL map... I'll do the map first and then worry about where it can fit in though. At worst, texture schemes can be changed.

Oh and speaking of boss levels... it's good practise to add a reactor anyway. The game changes it to a shield boost when it sees there's a boss.

Alter-Fox wrote: EDIT: I just played the rest of the way through Coolyard; and consider me officially impressed, Lightwolf... the only things apart from the start room: the textures in the yellow key room seem to clash with the rest of the mine, maybe use something a little more subdued... I can definitely see the possibility for still making that room a contrast to the rest of the mine without outright clashing. And maybe some flowing textures on the walls there...
And the second red door should use the lights, not the stripes. Plenty of doors in the parallax missions had the stripes next to them and they weren't actually keyed.

Agreed on the doorlights instead of the stripes, that's definitely a point. As for the room clashing with the rest of the mine - keep in mind it's Zeta Aquilae, these levels are all about various colors and them being vivid. So I don't consider it such a bad thing.

Also Xfing, was just taking a look through Eris Military Base and I liked what I saw, except the blue key area with the doors one on top of the other; they look like if they were physical objects and not 2D walls they'd overlap each other when they opened. Maybe move the room where they meet back a little bit so you can put the upper one a little bit higher? Or find another solution...

Good point, hadn't thought of that. In real life these doors opening would need to have somewhere to go when they actually opened. Right. Not sure what to do with that one though, the only solution that comes to mind is to remove both doors, as the lower door is directly below an empty space so your point applies to it too even when it's on its own. I think a good solution would just be to axe those two doors and instead put one near the entry to that area. I'll probably do that even now.

And there are some really weird textures in Sedna, I don't know if they're supposed to be there. But I also can't play the latest version so I don't know if that's even a problem anymore, and I can't fix it in DLE.

The last version is from March 24th. No idea why it doesn't work for you, it runs fine for me, both in the game and in the editor. Reuploaded it to dropbox though just to be safe, see if you can open it.

A chronic problem I've been seeing on all the vertigo levels so far is a that there're too many types of vertigo bots all over. Most of the vertigo series levels were themed around three or four of them, with only one or two actually appearing frequently. I think the way to solve this is for most of the vertigo bots to start popping up in places before that actual part of the mission, just like the Descent 2 bots pop up in the Descent 1 maps. That way you're not so pressed to throw all of them at the player at once.

The bot configurations as of right now are all placeholder anyway. They're going to get redone from scratch once we get to that part of the project. Also, you probably shouldn't care that much about how many Vertigo bots were used in these levels, as that really won't be a consideration. We'll pool all the bots together for the mission and choose from there, regardless of which game the robots came from.

Oh btw, I did a small (2 key) boss map in May that could fit somewhere in here. It could fit with either fire or fatty boss and the only thing I did unusually was because of the size of the boss room, I put two of the boss in... otherwise it got pretty easy. But that can get re-balanced with matcens or something. And I'm thinking of doing another non-XL map... I'll do the map first and then worry about where it can fit in though. At worst, texture schemes can be changed.

The only boss level that can afford to be smallish is going to be Ceres - I'm afraid all other boss levels need to be fairly large. As for Ceres, I do have a texture scheme in mind already (D1 greens and whites basically), so if you could work with that then you could probably land the spot right off the bat.

Also Kaizerwolf, amazing job! I'm really enjoying what I'm seeing so far. And it matches my initial vision of that level pretty closely, which is sweet. Only thing that worries me is that the N'Tala Shadowy Corridors that I'm also building at the time is probably going to be pretty similar color scheme-wise. So I'll probably move it to the second Vertigo boss slot instead of it being the first. This level will really fit the D1 final boss to a T, especially since the yellow key area turned out as an unintentional homage to the level 27 boss room...

Xfing wrote: The only boss level that can afford to be smallish is going to be Ceres - I'm afraid all other boss levels need to be fairly large. As for Ceres, I do have a texture scheme in mind already (D1 greens and whites basically), so if you could work with that then you could probably land the spot right off the bat.

We'll see about that... which boss is it supposed to be? Only thing is that two areas in the level are built heavily around large amounts of lava, without the lava they wouldn't really look right. I'm not sure if that's ok for Ceres or not.
And I'm going to do one more song for the DCA 2 folder while I'm at it... I should get my idea for that underway soon.

As for the level loading problem, I think that might have something to do with the POG...

Alter-Fox wrote:

Xfing wrote: The only boss level that can afford to be smallish is going to be Ceres - I'm afraid all other boss levels need to be fairly large. As for Ceres, I do have a texture scheme in mind already (D1 greens and whites basically), so if you could work with that then you could probably land the spot right off the bat.

We'll see about that... which boss is it supposed to be? Only thing is that two areas in the level are built heavily around large amounts of lava, without the lava they wouldn't really look right. I'm not sure if that's ok for Ceres or not.
And I'm going to do one more song for the DCA 2 folder while I'm at it... I should get my idea for that underway soon.

As for the level loading problem, I think that might have something to do with the POG...

What do you mean which boss? The red fatty of course, it's level 5 after all. We'll see what you come up with and then see if and where we can place it, ok? That would be the best way to go about it.

BTW: Fixed that door issue in Eris, I just did things slightly differently so there's no conflict.

And the problem you're experiencing with opening Sedna is probably that you don't have Descent.PIG, the palette Pumo made, amirite? The level is based on this palette. It opens perfectly fine for me.

That would explain why I can't play/edit Merchub!

Where can I get Descent.256?

Xfing wrote: And the problem you're experiencing with opening Sedna is probably that you don't have Descent.PIG, the palette Pumo made, amirite? The level is based on this palette. It opens perfectly fine for me.

That would explain it. Doesn't fix the problem though, if I put the Descent.PIG in the data directory the game hangs before it reaches the main menu. I think the problem is the checksum since it overwrites a file that's supposed to be there already... if it just had a different name... And DLE crashes if I try to choose a different PIG for the level.
I'm just fated not to see this it seems.
Wasn't sure if it would be Red Fatty or Boss 1 from D1. If it was boss 1 I'd have needed to make his starting segment a bit bigger.
I think Red Fatty's level music should sound feel like this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2W2RrDqK0vY. Musicians take note...

Xfing wrote:

Alter-Fox wrote: A chronic problem I've been seeing on all the vertigo levels so far is a that there're too many types of vertigo bots all over. Most of the vertigo series levels were themed around three or four of them, with only one or two actually appearing frequently. I think the way to solve this is for most of the vertigo bots to start popping up in places before that actual part of the mission, just like the Descent 2 bots pop up in the Descent 1 maps. That way you're not so pressed to throw all of them at the player at once.

The bot configurations as of right now are all placeholder anyway. They're going to get redone from scratch once we get to that part of the project. Also, you probably shouldn't care that much about how many Vertigo bots were used in these levels, as that really won't be a consideration. We'll pool all the bots together for the mission and choose from there, regardless of which game the robots came from.

Considering a few of the Vertigo robots have similar weapons to Counterstrike robots, that might help with placement because you can pick and choose based on the weapons, overall difficulty and the color scheme of the levels. PEST's and Canaries for Zeta Aquilae versus Fervids and BPER Bots for Baloris Prime, for example. Even the D1 robots could kind of get involved in the mix and match, too. I'd be happy to help with the placement if you like, Xfing, just give me some guidelines on how to scale the first few levels for example. That includes Alter-Fox's level if it's being included as Level 5.

First thing I need to do is figure out why that PIG isn't working with D2X-XL, especially if this mine of mine is going to use it.
It may just be a question of the PIG not being in the level HOGs itself, since I think I've been able to run missions before with unusual PIGs in the HOG. Silly piggy.
In the meantime maybe check out the music track I uploaded?

I wonder if Parallax's obsession with pigs is a reference to Nine Inch Nails, cuz there are certainly plenty of those in the music.

&Naptha, I'm liking that idea.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ccxg68q0xwc4 ... fyN-a?dl=0

Get Descent.PIG and Descent.256 from here. All Solar Systems uploaded to Dropbox are currently using this palette (as they should... duh), so you'll need it to open them. Also, try using Rebirth if XL doesn't work for you. This PIG is an add-on after all, bordering on third party - it would probably have to get written into XL first.

And damn, that track's sweet! Lovin' it

Naphtha wrote: Considering a few of the Vertigo robots have similar weapons to Counterstrike robots, that might help with placement because you can pick and choose based on the weapons, overall difficulty and the color scheme of the levels. PEST's and Canaries for Zeta Aquilae versus Fervids and BPER Bots for Baloris Prime, for example. Even the D1 robots could kind of get involved in the mix and match, too. I'd be happy to help with the placement if you like, Xfing, just give me some guidelines on how to scale the first few levels for example. That includes Alter-Fox's level if it's being included as Level 5.

Sure, I'll remember that. We can collaborate on that process along with DFW, if she feels like it. The premise is to pool the robots from all three games and assign threat categories to them and move within those. Of course it's perfectly possible to have a level contain predominantly red, green or blue robots to fit the theme, but that approach won't really have much room in the mission to shine through, as keeping robots uniform in color was never that important in the Solar System or Beta Ceti. That said, it sure is fun to see Class 1 Drones work alongside E-Bandits, Plasma Drillers with Bulk Destroyers and so on and so forth. I've even tried such combos myself, check out my Baloris Prime level, which I've populated already (everything's subject to change though).

Eh, you guys are already set up to test rebirth. The point of what I'm doing is to figure out how the mission will be built so that it runs on both Rebirth and D2X-XL. Me testing with Rebirth wouldn't really accomplish anything to that end.

Worse comes to worst we just make a separate D2X-XL release using the hires Descent 1 textures, which don't use a palette anyway. But I want to see if there's another way to make it work.

There's a possible workaround to make it work, but it requires the .PIG and .256 to be renamed to something else that is not Descent.pig, but then the levels would have to call the renamed .PIG instead of Descent.PIG.

However, this has the side-effect that DLE won't read the colors correctly if it's not named as Descent.PIG.

It's a bit of a PITA.

I'm more of less of an 'expert' in D2X-XL modding, so if at any time there is a plan to release a D2X-XL version I may take care of it.

I don't think optimizing the mission for XL is gonna be hard. We've done way harder things already and figured out how to do them, this should be nothing by comparison, methinks

It's a personal preference thing too, I don't like using Rebirth for singleplayer because the differences from DOS may be small, but they're frequent enough that you really notice them.
Added one more song to the Dropbox btw.

Update from my end. Level 10's layout is nearly complete. Blue and Yellow keys are attainable. Red isn't (yet). No powerups or robots placed either. Red Door is just a 20x20x20 cube atm as well Once i get a reactor and exit run set up, I'll post the Work In Progress on DMDB and then link it here.

Level 11 has no progress as of yet. I want to hash out level 10's complete layout first before even starting level 11.

Thanks!

PigmyRhino wrote:Update from my end. Level 10's layout is nearly complete. Blue and Yellow keys are attainable. Red isn't (yet). No powerups or robots placed either. Red Door is just a 20x20x20 cube atm as well Once i get a reactor and exit run set up, I'll post the Work In Progress on DMDB and then link it here.

Level 11 has no progress as of yet. I want to hash out level 10's complete layout first before even starting level 11.

Thanks!

Great to hear, thanks for the update!

Has a decision about either of my levels been made yet?

LightWolf wrote:Has a decision about either of my levels been made yet?

What do you mean either? Coolyard is in as far as I'm concerned, but I have no idea what other level you are referring to

The other one is Fata...

You really should update the thing on the front page...

This level will really fit the D1 final boss to a T, especially since the yellow key area turned out as an unintentional homage to the level 27 boss room...

Don't put any levels at BC11 yet! I'm still making De'gaffa station! VRL665 could be moved though...

LightWolf wrote:The other one is Fata...

Right. Sorry, I forgot. It's a decent level, but definitely not as good as the best community secret levels, such as those from TEW etc. So I'll abstain from a decision for now.

You really should update the thing on the front page...

Yeah, suppose so.

This level will really fit the D1 final boss to a T, especially since the yellow key area turned out as an unintentional homage to the level 27 boss room...

Don't put any levels at BC11 yet! I'm still making De'gaffa station! VRL665 could be moved though...

Tough luck bro!

Um...

47: Beta Ceti 11: N'Tala Shadowy Corridors (Boss: Tycho Brahe) Xfing: WIP (Boss: D1 Boss 2)

(Boss: Tycho Brahe)...(Boss: D1 Boss 2)

YKW, I'm gonna go out on a limb and do something different:

54: Beta Ceti 18: Doomsday Warstation (Boss: Vertigo 2) Lightwolf: WIP

And it's (hopefully) gonna stay that way until

54: Beta Ceti 18: Doomsday Warstation (Boss: Vertigo 2) Lightwolf: Layout Completed

Even if it ultimately means doing version 13.7 on the DMDB.

P.S. There's no Tycho Brahe boss anymore?

I'd love to make these part of a level, but the geometry would be taxing on cube counts...





Ahh I can just see the yellow key sitting at the end of the second one! If only...

Maybe you could cut down on some of the boxes and stretch the black-green text and orange/brown roller stripes and some monitors to make the holograms... (Or remove the holograms entirely to fit the Descent style)

I might make a room in Doomsday based off of picture 2...

Status update: I am already at 532 cubes! I may not have enough to finish...
Doomsday is a blend of Facility and Fire themes, if anybody cares.

Looks like you don't need my help OR approval anymore, you've as good as hi-jacked this project...

Doomsday Warstation is the final level and it needs to be absolutely stellar, so I wouldn't entrust making it to anyone other than Sirius, Darkhorse or DFW.

Then my awesome boss arena will go to waste...

LightWolf wrote:Then my awesome boss arena will go to waste...

Aren't you developing a mission pack of your own tho? Nothing will go to waste

That's right!

The rest can return to De'gaffa Station, which can occupy the Tycho Brahe slot. Keeping it Vertigo, though.

The fire portion of De'gaffa is being changed to Alien 2, BTW.