Descent 1 1/2

Xfing · Post by **Xfing** » Wed Aug 05, 2015 11:31 am

Next time you should really notify in advance which slots you're taking. As all other designers have been doing since day one, wink wink nudge nudge

Kaizerwolf · Post by **Kaizerwolf** » Wed Aug 05, 2015 1:30 pm

Virus Research Lab is nearing completion! I'm doing my own fly-thru testing, but it should be good to go soon!

Xfing · Post by **Xfing** » Thu Aug 06, 2015 5:58 am

Kaizerwolf wrote:Virus Research Lab is nearing completion! I'm doing my own fly-thru testing, but it should be good to go soon!

Wheeeeee

Kaizerwolf · Post by **Kaizerwolf** » Thu Aug 06, 2015 7:15 am

My own fly-thru is done, and I think it's done! Textures seem to be good. Placed keys and hostages and a reactor.

There are a lot of secrets in this one, so see if you can find them all!

Xfing · Post by **Xfing** » Thu Aug 06, 2015 7:17 am

I'll do a quick fly-thru in a while, as my time is tight right now. Gotta go give some tutoring

So I'll give a more detailed opinion later in the evening.

Ok, done my first run, and here are my impressions!

- Great geometry, very alien-like and strange in a good way
- Absolutely delightful texture work - the level is going to be memorable as hell. You could win an award with that stuff, haha

What you need to do, though:
- Please script the matcens. You're the one who knows best when and how they should activate. You can use the Class 1 Drone as a placeholder robot to be spawned before a decision on this can be made
- The rhombus-like monitor you've used several times near the red key I believe - when it gets popped, a whole different texture appears (the small black monitor from D1). You need to change both the popping animation and the popped texture to match the standard monitor texture. I don't remember if it's enough to just revert those textures to default, you'll need to check.
- Add some lab doodad textures! All those white walls at times are simply begging for some variety. You know what I mean, like the texture with the bullet holes or the one with the black burned portion, as if from a projectile. Most of those weren't carried over to Descent 2 but you know where to find them

I'll play the level again later tomorrow and try to find all the secrets. I totally loved the way you get the blue key btw - the totally alien-like, claustrophobic tunnels all in purple - exactly what D2 missed. This kind of environments is what makes Descent pulse-pounding!

Kaizerwolf · Post by **Kaizerwolf** » Thu Aug 06, 2015 8:08 am

Xfing wrote:I'll do a quick fly-thru in a while, as my time is tight right now. Gotta go give some tutoring

So I'll give a more detailed opinion later in the evening.

Ok, done my first run, and here are my impressions!

- Great geometry, very alien-like and strange in a good way
- Absolutely delightful texture work - the level is going to be memorable as hell. You could win an award with that stuff, haha

What you need to do, though:
- Please script the matcens. You're the one who knows best when and how they should activate. You can use the Class 1 Drone as a placeholder robot to be spawned before a decision on this can be made
- The rhombus-like monitor you've used several times near the red key I believe - when it gets popped, a whole different texture appears (the small black monitor from D1). You need to change both the popping animation and the popped texture to match the standard monitor texture. I don't remember if it's enough to just revert those textures to default, you'll need to check.
- Add some lab doodad textures! All those white walls at times are simply begging for some variety. You know what I mean, like the texture with the bullet holes or the one with the black burned portion, as if from a projectile. Most of those weren't carried over to Descent 2 but you know where to find them

I'll play the level again later tomorrow and try to find all the secrets. I totally loved the way you get the blue key btw - the totally alien-like, claustrophobic tunnels all in purple - exactly what D2 missed. This kind of environments is what makes Descent pulse-pounding!

I guess I never tried breaking the monitors, that's so strange! I'll try to work on them. The matcens are scripted in, but I didn't add bots to them. I can do that too. I'll also throw some variety on the whites in there, it may be difficult sometimes because they're not all standard 20x20x20 cubes. I'll see what I can do though!

EDIT: Okay, I reuploaded! Those monitors should be fixed, and the matcens spawn drones now.

As for the lab textures, I've tried my best to mix things up a bit. Again, I can't do too much, as a lot of the white lab stuff is bigger than the standard texture size; I don't want it to look bad with 5 sets of bullet holes going along a wall! But I did what I could to add some variety, hopefully it works!

Xfing · Post by **Xfing** » Thu Aug 06, 2015 11:21 am

Kaizerwolf wrote:
As for the lab textures, I've tried my best to mix things up a bit. Again, I can't do too much, as a lot of the white lab stuff is bigger than the standard texture size; I don't want it to look bad with 5 sets of bullet holes going along a wall! But I did what I could to add some variety, hopefully it works!

Yeah I feel ya man, I've also noticed that and these textures do indeed work better if some standard-sized walls are available. No problem though - we'll perhaps give those textures some room to shine in some other level. There definitely is gonna be a primarily lab-based Solar System level (even more so than Miranda or L2 from D1).

Xfing · Post by **Xfing** » Thu Aug 06, 2015 12:37 pm

Guys, I would like to invite you to be proactive in offering feedback on this latest, and all other levels, if you would be so kind. Thanks in advance

Naphtha · Post by **Naphtha** » Sat Aug 08, 2015 2:48 am

I'm impressed by it, honestly. One of the only things I have to comment on is there are some very sharp angles on some walls that can be easy for a player to get caught on, such as just above the blue door. I know deleting the thin walls might interfere with the "pipeline" design you were probably going for there, though, so maybe deleting the cubes right above those doors could work? That's just a general pet peeve I tend to have in level building, but overall this is an excellent design. Just flying through it, I can picture the intense fights some of those rooms are just screaming for, and the mixing of themes is very well done.

Kaizerwolf · Post by **Kaizerwolf** » Sat Aug 08, 2015 10:01 am

Naphtha wrote:I'm impressed by it, honestly. One of the only things I have to comment on is there are some very sharp angles on some walls that can be easy for a player to get caught on, such as just above the blue door. I know deleting the thin walls might interfere with the "pipeline" design you were probably going for there, though, so maybe deleting the cubes right above those doors could work? That's just a general pet peeve I tend to have in level building, but overall this is an excellent design. Just flying through it, I can picture the intense fights some of those rooms are just screaming for, and the mixing of themes is very well done.

Hey, from an excellent map builder such as yourself, this is high praise! I do know that the thin walls around the blue door and such are kinda messy. Without them there, it just looks a little odd. I'll see what I can do for it though, you are correct.

Kaizerwolf · Post by **Kaizerwolf** » Mon Aug 10, 2015 9:13 am

Sorry for the double post, but which levels would use the brown/sandy textures? I like building with those colors in mind.

Xfing · Post by **Xfing** » Mon Aug 10, 2015 1:04 pm

Kaizerwolf wrote:Sorry for the double post, but which levels would use the brown/sandy textures? I like building with those colors in mind.

Sandy? Well obviously the Baloris Prime levels. But if you want more liberty you might wanna grab a Beta Ceti level for that. There were some really sweet levels in Vertigo that were sand-heavy. Citadel Station I believe was one of them.

Naphtha · Post by **Naphtha** » Tue Aug 11, 2015 5:05 am

Looking at the D1 palette again, there might need to be some re-adjustments for certain texture imports. Part of the light strips on the switch animations is transparent in the palette, so that definitely should be fixed if nothing else. Otherwise, I'm trying to have a look at the D2 textures which could probably fit better in a D1 level and see if there's any that could be imported a bit better.

EDIT: Also just noticed a few of Xfing's recommendations for Solar System-compatible D2 textures were swapped out in Pumo's D1 palette test levels. Can you remind me if those levels are using the current POG? I'm wondering if we could discuss swapping those replacement textures around so we're only taking out some that definitely wouldn't fit in D1 at all.

Xfing · Post by **Xfing** » Tue Aug 11, 2015 6:42 am

Naphtha wrote:Looking at the D1 palette again, there might need to be some re-adjustments for certain texture imports. Part of the light strips on the switch animations is transparent in the palette, so that definitely should be fixed if nothing else. Otherwise, I'm trying to have a look at the D2 textures which could probably fit better in a D1 level and see if there's any that could be imported a bit better.

You should re-download the new PIG palette from Dropbox, it's the current version I believe. There shouldn't be any textures different than in the six PIGs of D2 - if there are, it must have been Pumo's oversight. I haven't noticed any more mistakes thus far, but if you have, report them to Pumo and he'll take a look. I think

EDIT: Yeah, the light strip on the switch issue does seem to pertain to the current version. The textures in that PIG file would have to be fixed manually.

EDIT: Also just noticed a few of Xfing's recommendations for Solar System-compatible D2 textures were swapped out in Pumo's D1 palette test levels. Can you remind me if those levels are using the current POG? I'm wondering if we could discuss swapping those replacement textures around so we're only taking out some that definitely wouldn't fit in D1 at all.

There is one POG template that swaps out all the monitors for their D1 counterparts and also adds in several textures from D1, but from what I'm seeing now, those levels by Pumo used POG files of their own, they're unrelated. The new PIG palette on its own contains the very same textures the D2 originals contain.

LightWolf · Post by **LightWolf** » Wed Sep 16, 2015 9:00 pm

I'm still alive!

I have very limited internet access as of late, but I do have a status update:

Three levels taken and in progress.

De'gaffa Station (Tycho Brahe boss)
Katatonia
BC Mil Base

Alter-Fox · Post by **Alter-Fox** » Fri Sep 18, 2015 7:11 pm

I uploaded a few more of my tracks to the Dropbox, so if you could look through them and see which ones you think would fit best with the game, that will help me decide which ones go into the mission and which ones go onto the album...

Xfing · Post by **Xfing** » Sat Sep 19, 2015 1:31 am

Alter-Fox wrote:I uploaded a few more of my tracks to the Dropbox, so if you could look through them and see which ones you think would fit best with the game, that will help me decide which ones go into the mission and which ones go onto the album...

Sorry about my recent lack of activity too - I'll make sure to check them out, but maybe tomorrow.

From my side - N'Tala Shadowy Corridors is heavily WIP. Geometry-wise all that's left to add is one area in the level itself and the boss room. Also some secrets obviously. I usually do the texturing as I go, but this time I decided to neglect it to finish the geometry faster, so I'll have to focus on it in its own right. The lighting is going to be pretty tricky to do in that level but that's quite fine because I actually want it to be dark - if you guys find something worthy of correction then as always feel free to do so. I can't give an upload date yet as I'm rarely in the mood to work on the level recently, but I can pretty much guarantee it'll be up until the end of September. Thanks for your patience

LightWolf wrote:I'm still alive!

I have very limited internet access as of late, but I do have a status update:

Three levels taken and in progress.

De'gaffa Station (Tycho Brahe boss)
Katatonia
BC Mil Base

That last one I'd rather someone else does - it's the penultimate level of the mission after all, it needs to be top notch. Remember how memorable level 26 in D1 was? Also I have no idea why you gravitate so much towards boss levels. I know the red room is more fun to make that way, but it also requires a lot of creativity and intricacy.

Alter-Fox · Post by **Alter-Fox** » Sat Sep 19, 2015 8:36 am

I still may let you have that "Vertigo Gadget" level which I guess you could rename to Beta Ceti Military Base if you really want.
I'd thought of putting it into my D2X-XL set as the penultimate map but with the story I've thought up it would need so many changes to fit the mission that it might be easier to build it from scratch.

Xfing · Post by **Xfing** » Sat Sep 19, 2015 1:45 pm

Alter-Fox wrote:I still may let you have that "Vertigo Gadget" level which I guess you could rename to Beta Ceti Military Base if you really want.
I'd thought of putting it into my D2X-XL set as the penultimate map but with the story I've thought up it would need so many changes to fit the mission that it might be easier to build it from scratch.

That's a good level, especially seeing how there's a lot to do in the red room. Kinda like a boss arena but without a boss - pretty fitting for the penultimate level. Don't think too much about that though, maybe someone will make something.

Xfing · Post by **Xfing** » Wed Sep 23, 2015 6:01 am

Listened to the tracks!

All of them are really good and remind me quite a bit of D3 music. There are also some touches I really liked such as that little knocking sound in Broken Wings that reminded me a lot of the OPL kick sound of the early games :3

The other tracks remind me more of Deus Ex than of Descent, but I can't say I mind, as I'm a huge fan of the Deus Ex series, haha

If you insist on picking something for teh game, then Broken Wings should have priority IMO

Alter-Fox · Post by **Alter-Fox** » Mon Sep 28, 2015 9:20 am

Just put the starting touches on a new map for this project... will decide on a slot for it after it's done.
The texture scheme is mainly orange and black (with a creamy underbelly!) so it would probably fit best into zeta aquilae or baloris.

The starting room has a hilarious secret you should definitely keep in there. You'll see what I mean when you play it.

Xfing · Post by **Xfing** » Mon Sep 28, 2015 1:20 pm

Alter-Fox wrote:Just put the starting touches on a new map for this project... will decide on a slot for it after it's done.
The texture scheme is mainly orange and black (with a creamy underbelly!) so it would probably fit best into zeta aquilae or baloris.

The starting room has a hilarious secret you should definitely keep in there. You'll see what I mean when you play it.

Sounds like Vertigo tbh.

Basically anything that breaks the mold is doomed to be Vertigo, the Counterstrike levels were just too formulaic texture-wise

Alter-Fox · Post by **Alter-Fox** » Mon Sep 28, 2015 7:30 pm

Yeah, but Baloris Prime was pretty much orange and black.

The map's pretty much done now.

Xfing · Post by **Xfing** » Tue Sep 29, 2015 5:42 am

Alter-Fox wrote:Yeah, but Baloris Prime was pretty much orange and black.

The map's pretty much done now.

Bring it on then

Alter-Fox · Post by **Alter-Fox** » Tue Sep 29, 2015 7:54 am

It'll be on dropbox sometime today. Still not sure what slot it should have so it shows up in your missions list as Mr. Mountain Mine and has a temporary title that's really more a collection of letters thrown together.

There's a preliminary robot occupation force to make testing more interesting, and to show off certain robot placements that the rooms were designed for; anyone who likes to vandalize monitors as soon as they see them is in for a surprise as well...

And it's up on the dropbox now.

Xfing · Post by **Xfing** » Wed Sep 30, 2015 7:01 am

Holy ★■◆● man, is that one spiffy level! Nice, nice, nice. I want it in, no questions asked

At first I thought it would be a textbook Baloris Prime level. But then I got to the blue door and beyond I found lab textures and the pink walls. Also the red room has textures a bit adventurous for Baloris, though these could actually pass. Thing is, the level has no hostages which is normal for a Baloris Level, yet uses textures suggesting it's a manned installation. I find it hard to believe there would be a lab where robots themselves conduct research, no?

So I think Vertigo would be a better choice, but then you could add a hostage cell or two somewhere. If it's to be placed in BP, I think the manmade-looking textures need to go. Your call. I would prefer Vertigo though tbh, it's a good entry and would fit the system nicely.

You even made effort to put in some gratuitous D1-ness. I thought there wouldn't be any, but then I noticed the pink wall doodads taken from the D1 texture pool. GJ on that

But fix the little green slime grated holes above lava, this doesn't look good. A better replacement would be another cube with the actual see-through low grate.

Alter-Fox · Post by **Alter-Fox** » Wed Sep 30, 2015 9:02 am

Ok, yeah, those slime grates look different in the hi-res texture pack so I didn't really think they'd be out of place. I will SEEK, LOCATE, REPLACE!
And hostages would be the thing I forgot to add. Well I've got plenty of cubes left so this is not a problem.
I actually only used the base Descent 2 texture set, any D1 textures in there were carryovers.

I wouldn't see what's to stop it going in Baloris since it's really just that mixed with a few Descent 1 textures and structural styles -- even with the hostages. Or failing that, Zeta Aquilae. I mean, it's not like you mind that there are heavy drillers and seekers in there.
Updated on Dropbox btw.

Also, did I mention you could have The Violet Caves for this project? If I didn't mention, I meant to mention.

Xfing · Post by **Xfing** » Wed Sep 30, 2015 10:33 am

Alter-Fox wrote:Ok, yeah, those slime grates look different in the hi-res texture pack so I didn't really think they'd be out of place. I will SEEK, LOCATE, REPLACE!
And hostages would be the thing I forgot to add. Well I've got plenty of cubes left so this is not a problem.
I actually only used the base Descent 2 texture set, any D1 textures in there were carryovers.

Oh, so the pink wall with the bullet holes actually is a carryover. Nice, I thought it was left out of D2.

I wouldn't see what's to stop it going in Baloris since it's really just that mixed with a few Descent 1 textures and structural styles -- even with the hostages. Or failing that, Zeta Aquilae. I mean, it's not like you mind that there are heavy drillers and seekers in there.
Updated on Dropbox btw.

Yeah, it can be in Baloris like I said - just add the hostages to justify the processed, technical-looking texutres. If you've done that already, all the better

I had planned my first Baloris level to be the only manned one lore-wise, but I see no problem with doing two. As a matter of principle Baloris Prime is supposed to be so remote as to be unmanned, but PTMC is known to keep aces up their sleeves, right?

Also, did I mention you could have The Violet Caves for this project? If I didn't mention, I meant to mention.

That's sweet, but I'm not sure I remember which level that is. From your earlier levels I only remember L'aeev Installation, Vertigo Fortress and Litter Jungle.

Alter-Fox · Post by **Alter-Fox** » Wed Sep 30, 2015 11:10 am

Yep, I just added two hostage cells, one with the cell door and another one behind an openable fence.
Violet Caves is the only D1 map I ever built, it's here: http://www.enspiar.com/dmdb/viewMission.php?id=370

Ooh, and the description there reminds me I forgot to put in co-op starts on Mountain. Will re-update in a sec.
Did you find that secret at the start I keep hinting at? I cannot give it away if you haven't seen it, but it needs to stay the same in the mission.

Xfing · Post by **Xfing** » Wed Sep 30, 2015 11:33 am

Alter-Fox wrote:Yep, I just added two hostage cells, one with the cell door and another one behind an openable fence.
Violet Caves is the only D1 map I ever built, it's here: http://www.enspiar.com/dmdb/viewMission.php?id=370

Ooh, and the description there reminds me I forgot to put in co-op starts on Mountain. Will re-update in a sec.
Did you find that secret at the start I keep hinting at? I cannot give it away if you haven't seen it, but it needs to stay the same in the mission.

No. I couldn't even get to the secret cache in the reactor room

I'll need more time, haha. In the meantime, lemme check Violet Caves.

HOLY !@#!@$ it's 31 megabytes packed! Wtf bro :O

Alter-Fox · Post by **Alter-Fox** » Wed Sep 30, 2015 11:41 am

Wat?
That might be an old version then. I'll get whatever my current version is up on the dropbox soon; I think I might have a version that's already converted to D2. In the meantime, I'll just tell you on Mountain to be one of those players who shoots those destructible monitors as soon as he sees them.

A couple of the secrets are very well hidden but that one's just supposed to be funny.

Xfing · Post by **Xfing** » Wed Sep 30, 2015 11:56 am

Alter-Fox wrote:Wat?
That might be an old version then. I'll get whatever my current version is up on the dropbox soon; I think I might have a version that's already converted to D2. In the meantime, I'll just tell you on Mountain to be one of those players who shoots those destructible monitors as soon as he sees them.

A couple of the secrets are very well hidden but that one's just supposed to be funny.

Ok, will do. As for Violet Caves. A gorgeous map by all means, but I'm not so sure if it's appropriate. Most of all it's already been out for years. Literally. So people already know it and it stands on its own. You even made an exit sequence and separate music for it, so yeah. Renaming and repackaging it still won't make it a different map in essence so I don't think it's worth the hassle. We should only add maps specifically made for this project which haven't been released prior.

Alter-Fox · Post by **Alter-Fox** » Wed Sep 30, 2015 8:12 pm

Fair enough.

Xfing · Post by **Xfing** » Sat Oct 03, 2015 7:23 am

Pick your slot btw, so I can tick off your level on the list

Alter-Fox · Post by **Alter-Fox** » Sat Oct 03, 2015 9:25 am

It's gonna have to be on #30: Baloris Prime 1: Ktsch'k W'eng II. Looks like the only Baloris slot that doesn't already have something since Laeeve is probably mine too.
I hadn't realized how many of these levels are actually finished already. I may not be doing many more, this one was something I literally dreamed up overnight and thought "I could build that". I do want there to be something new for me to play when this all comes out. But who knows.

Xfing · Post by **Xfing** » Sat Oct 03, 2015 10:54 am

Alter-Fox wrote:It's gonna have to be on #30: Baloris Prime 1: Ktsch'k W'eng II. Looks like the only Baloris slot that doesn't already have something since Laeeve is probably mine too.
I hadn't realized how many of these levels are actually finished already. I may not be doing many more, this one was something I literally dreamed up overnight and thought "I could build that". I do want there to be something new for me to play when this all comes out. But who knows.

K, sweet! I'll make adjustments to the list tomorrow. Party tonight ;x

Done. I guess I'll work on my level a bit now. I really want to make an amazing boss room but I'm not sure I can handle the task.

Xfing · Post by **Xfing** » Sat Oct 10, 2015 8:45 am

Level 47: N'Tala Shadowy Corridors has been finished and uploaded to Dropbox.

This level is sponsored by: hexagons, the colors black and purple and the following homages:

D1 level 25 - for its long hallways and relative dearth of doors
D1 level 27 - for its final boss room layout, as well as its inhabitant. A similar-looking area is in the level, but it actually isn't the boss room. Our old friend is back tho.

The level took me a lot of time to make and I tried to be meticulous, but it still could use some optimization - cube economy, more secrets, lighting etc. But I'm quite happy with the way things turned out.

The boss room I actually think I pulled off quite well, though it's super huge - probably the biggest structure I've mapped thus far. To compensate and keep the pace, the room has 4 matcens which the player will need to deduce the trick to not activating - they'll probably be spawning Fusion Hulks and Super Mechs to keep the player on their toes at all times.

Wish I could post a screenshot, but for some reason my Rebirth screws up every .tga screenshot so that there's only a black background with nothing at all in it. So until fixed, you'll have to check the level for yourselves.

Alter-Fox · Post by **Alter-Fox** » Sat Oct 10, 2015 10:47 am

Yeah I get a similar problem with wildly distorted screens in either Rebirth or D2X-XL.
If you run it through steam or open fraps in the background you can take screenshots with them though.

Xfing · Post by **Xfing** » Sat Oct 10, 2015 12:41 pm

Alter-Fox wrote:Yeah I get a similar problem with wildly distorted screens in either Rebirth or D2X-XL.
If you run it through steam or open fraps in the background you can take screenshots with them though.

This problem wouldn't happen until a while ago though - no idea why it does now. The screenshot is completely blank, only in black.

What do you think of the level tho? Remember that you need descent.pig and descent.256 to run it.

Alter-Fox · Post by **Alter-Fox** » Sat Oct 10, 2015 1:02 pm

Yeah but I still can't use those with D2X-XL.
Maybe I should see if they work with DOS...