DescentBB

Alter-Fox wrote:Yeah but I still can't use those with D2X-XL.
Maybe I should see if they work with DOS...

They probably should, if Rebirth takes them

Yeah, rebirth works well for multiplayer but I don't like the change to the way the bots explode, and since that's probably the thing you're supposed to see most often in successful singleplayer playing...

Alter-Fox wrote:Yeah, rebirth works well for multiplayer but I don't like the change to the way the bots explode, and since that's probably the thing you're supposed to see most often in successful singleplayer playing...

I agree with this, I was never a fan of the new bot exploding way either. It just looks bad and even... glitchy. But I guess Zico will stand by his decision to make it so.

Considering D2X-XL had the same thing before Karx deliberately changed it even more to make it look better, I don't think it was Zico's decision. More likely a quirk of OpenGL.

Alter-Fox wrote:Considering D2X-XL had the same thing before Karx deliberately changed it even more to make it look better, I don't think it was Zico's decision. More likely a quirk of OpenGL.

But there was once a poll asking which version is preferred, looks like the new one was actually chosen.

So did you manage to run the level?

Naah, not yet. Been too busy playing trackmania and Sublevel Zero.

I need feedbackz tho :<

It's looking pretty good honestly... still seeing some doors on flat walls though. And the way the hostage cell door is built on that structure, if you look at the Vertigo maps it might be a spot to use one of those double-layered grates. The boss room looks a little simplistic compared to Parallax's designs, but I didn't get a very good look at it before Boss 2 murdered me with mega missiles.

Apart from that I went through and tried to shoot out all the lights with a fusion cannon since there wasn't much else to fight.

I do really like a lot of that level and the similarities to Level 38 in terms of theme are really nice. One thing I don't really care for, though, is that sharply curved 20x20 tunnel (obsidian walls, pink ceiling, tiled floor) in the area near where the blue key is. It's a little too pinched and disorienting, and I feel like you could actually put more of a mini-room in there to connect two ends of the tunnel as more of a right-angled turnaround.

Naphtha wrote:I do really like a lot of that level and the similarities to Level 38 in terms of theme are really nice. One thing I don't really care for, though, is that sharply curved 20x20 tunnel (obsidian walls, pink ceiling, tiled floor) in the area near where the blue key is. It's a little too pinched and disorienting, and I feel like you could actually put more of a mini-room in there to connect two ends of the tunnel as more of a right-angled turnaround.

I guess that's a valid point. That tunnel was more of an exercise in using the curve generator than anything else. The twist I only added later, as initially it didn't have one, which would make the pilot end up upside-down if keeping the orientation within the tunnel. I probably should make it into a room or something, indeed.

Alter-Fox wrote:It's looking pretty good honestly... still seeing some doors on flat walls though.

Impossible! Unless you mean a flat wall from one side at most, then yeah, there might be some.

And the way the hostage cell door is built on that structure, if you look at the Vertigo maps it might be a spot to use one of those double-layered grates.

You could actually lend me a hand with this

The boss room looks a little simplistic compared to Parallax's designs, but I didn't get a very good look at it before Boss 2 murdered me with mega missiles.

Parallax's designs from D2 you mean. Yeah, that would be about right, especially after my pretty elaborate Sedna boss room. It's fairly simple in terms of geometry, but it still can be confusing - there are 4 matcens (and those are likely gonna spawn serious robots), and there is a decently well hidden secret area meant to be filled with goodies. Actually you need to trip 3 switches, whose location isn't immediately intuitive, to unlock it all. I'm quite satisfied with the boss room actually. Just go invulnerable, get the keys cheat and explore it that way

On the whole it reminds me of a larger version of a couple of the maps from Descent Maximum.

Small update on Broken Wings, so, umm... make sure to redownload sometime in the next year before this is out?

Alter-Fox wrote:Small update on Broken Wings, so, umm... make sure to redownload sometime in the next year before this is out?

No probs bro, I'll check it out later today.

And I have checked it out. I don't really remember as it was a while ago, but didn't the last version have vocals? That must be it. Also, love the intro. Good track.

Nah I just added a different type of reverberation onto the vocals to make them sound a bit more sinister and mysterious.

Alter-Fox wrote:Nah I just added a different type of reverberation onto the vocals to make them sound a bit more sinister and mysterious.

I did like how the vox sounded so yeah, a success here for sure :3

Was Pumo's idea actually

Alter-Fox wrote:Was Pumo's idea actually

Speaking of Pumo, I wonder if he's already taken care of the palette problem with the new PIG. The one where the lights on the switches have the color assigned to transparent in the palette.

I noticed a problem with the hostage cell door on kutha'az and repaired it.
I'm going to upload it but not replace the old file... I think I have the latest version but I haven't checked in two weeks or so.

Also I'm seeing some areas with the rock21 texture where I'm not sure it's supposed to be there.

Alter-Fox wrote:I noticed a problem with the hostage cell door on kutha'az and repaired it.
I'm going to upload it but not replace the old file... I think I have the latest version but I haven't checked in two weeks or so.

Also I'm seeing some areas with the rock21 texture where I'm not sure it's supposed to be there.

Well thanks I guess. Feel free to delete the old one, I do make sure to reupload the files after every adjustment I make, and I haven't touched this level in quite a while.

I was thinking of getting to the quality control/minor adjustment phase after all the maps are done, but that's a looooong ways off, so this works too of course, hehe.

Aaah, well you told me before to go ahead so I decided to do that.
I'm a fan of the open approach myself.

In the little secret cube by the blue key is the ceiling supposed to use rock21?

Apologies for maybe not reading everything,. but if there's anything more to work on for the sound track i'd like to give something to this,?/

Yep, sign up in the "Descent Community Album ][" thread over in the art gallery. We're going to be building songs from that into a pseudo-rebook soundtrack for this mission that'll play in D2X-XL and D2X-Rebirth (the midi soundtrack will just be the midi songs from Descent 1 and 2).

There's a couple reasons we're working it that way, not least of which is the ability to get a bigger variety of material from a bigger variety of writers, and I have it on good authority that we could even get one or two tracks from somebody who used to do music for 3rd party Descent missions back in the day. I do have plans to make some of the music content exclusive for the mission, but I can't share yet since it'll depend on the type of material I'll have to work with.
Vocal songs are welcome too if you do that sorta thing -- though it would be nice if the lyrics had some relevance, metaphorical or otherwise, to gameplay. There are a couple from me already, but I don't want to be the only one singing on this mission.
I want to get permission from Lyris to use a few of his old Descent-style tracks (Mercury Core, Energy Level 4, and Harvest of Souls) on here too but I'm not sure how to contact him. Got lots of time to figure it out.

Map 33 is updated on dropbox btw. Updated the DCA2 folder while I was at it, and there are two new tracks in there.

Alter-Fox wrote: In the little secret cube by the blue key is the ceiling supposed to use rock21?

Only if the rest of the ceiling of the room also uses rock21. If not, then it should use what the rest is using

Phozon wrote:Apologies for maybe not reading everything,. but if there's anything more to work on for the sound track i'd like to give something to this,?/

Feel free to, of course. But you could also submit a level or two if you're up to it, you know. I saw that level you uploaded and it looked sweet and it's not like we're overflowing with submissions, hee hee

I already got Phozon all set up for the music stuff, no worries.

Xfing wrote: Feel free to, of course. But you could also submit a level or two if you're up to it, you know. I saw that level you uploaded and it looked sweet and it's not like we're overflowing with submissions, hee hee

Can do!//

Hey, slightly off-topic but I don't know where else I could mention this... I've been comparing the Descent 2 demo to the full game (I was bored) and I found a bunch of sounds effects that aren't in either Descent 1 or Descent 2... most of them are just slightly different but a few of them don't sound like anything. I'm wondering if there's some way you could make a second version of your sound patch, Xfing, that restores these sounds.
It could be cool to play Descent 1 and a half (or other missions) with a set of sounds that were halfway between Descent and Descent 2.

As far as I can tell what's different:
The door sounds on maps 1 and 2 sound like a mix of the descent 1 and descent 2 sounds.
The secret door sound is a little bit different.
The explosion sound used for the PEST, PIG and Smelter bots is completely different.
All of the thief's sounds have extra layers to them.

Internal Tactical Droid uses a sound from Descent 1, although I wouldn't count this since it's really just an old sound as a placeholder and not something completely different. I like his D2 sound.

Yes it's only a few things, but it's things you'd hear all the way through the game.

Alter-Fox wrote:Hey, slightly off-topic but I don't know where else I could mention this... I've been comparing the Descent 2 demo to the full game (I was bored) and I found a bunch of sounds effects that aren't in either Descent 1 or Descent 2... most of them are just slightly different but a few of them don't sound like anything. I'm wondering if there's some way you could make a second version of your sound patch, Xfing, that restores these sounds.
It could be cool to play Descent 1 and a half (or other missions) with a set of sounds that were halfway between Descent and Descent 2.

As far as I can tell what's different:
The door sounds on maps 1 and 2 sound like a mix of the descent 1 and descent 2 sounds.
The secret door sound is a little bit different.
The explosion sound used for the PEST, PIG and Smelter bots is completely different.
All of the thief's sounds have extra layers to them.

Internal Tactical Droid uses a sound from Descent 1, although I wouldn't count this since it's really just an old sound as a placeholder and not something completely different. I like his D2 sound.

Yes it's only a few things, but it's things you'd hear all the way through the game.

Dayum, been a long while since I worked on that patch. I'm not sure I still know how to do all this! It'd take me a longer while I think. But I did like the sounds from the Interactive Demo quite a lot - they must have been leftovers from where D2 was still CD-Enhanced Descent.

Gosh, I actually wish they had released it as such. It would have meant no axed content at least and we wouldn't have to do all this.

Anyway, the sound patch was not just made with this mission in mind, it does restore all the lost sounds without impacting the existing ones. I probably could make a separate one for use just with the mission but I'm not sure how to get it to work without conflicting with the universal version. Probably a dxa patch file or something?

I just thought maybe a second, modified patch that could just be swapped in and out manually. I wasn't thinking of it just for this mission, only making a clever comparison.
It's no big deal.

Alter-Fox wrote:I just thought maybe a second, modified patch that could just be swapped in and out manually. I wasn't thinking of it just for this mission, only making a clever comparison.
It's no big deal.

Oh. Okay. At least you made me want to replay the Interactive Demo

Level 1 also had less secrets in that version, another piece of trivia.

Yeah I noticed, I shoot screen and I'm like "WHY NOT YOU OPEN, WALL!"

Well, I'm back.

L'aeev Installation (referenced as Ktsch'k W'eng III, as that is where the level was originally supposed to go)
http://www.enspiar.com/dmdb/viewMission.php?id=1077
This is where luck handed me a bad card. I wanted to do this as Ktsch'k W'eng III, but Naphtha already did it. As far as the level itself, I think you'll like it.

De'gaffa Station
http://www.enspiar.com/dmdb/viewMission.php?id=1079

Quartzon Aqua Distillata Factory
http://www.enspiar.com/dmdb/viewMission.php?id=1075

Katatonia
http://www.enspiar.com/dmdb/viewMission.php?id=1076

Xfing wrote:[Beta Ceti Military Base] I'd rather someone else does - it's the penultimate level of the mission after all, it needs to be top notch. Remember how memorable level 26 in D1 was?

Oh, I think it'll be memorable enough. Even if it's not, then it will be for level 52.
http://www.enspiar.com/dmdb/viewMission.php?id=1078
A quick note is that it is supposed to be a major throwback do the solar system portion of the level.

We've told you several times already that L'aeeve is basically taken by me.

Please stop trying to steal other peoples' slots -- if you keep trying to steal mine (or anybody else's, but especially mine) I may have to kick you off the DCA cuz I don't want to be working with somebody who does that. You're doing too much -- you need to leave some space for others.

What happened to all your other projects? With the amount of material you've been creating and the stuff you've learned from doing it with us, you could easily finish one of them -- I for one would like some other big mission to play while I wait for the giant one.

Also wasn't Naptha who took Ktsch'k...

So if I were making a map for this. Which .PIG file should i use. The one downloadable in the first post? is that a whole one?

Nope, only for the Descent 1 mines.
The Descent 2 mines will use the same PIG they use in the parallax campaign.

so if i want to do one of the early descent 1 levels, i'm still confused,., doesn't everyone in the Solar System section's maps have to use the same .pig ?

Yeah all the solar system levels need the custom PIG. The chapter 2 levels will use the same PIGs as their planets did in Descent 2. And the chapter 3 levels can play around with it like Vertigo did.

BTW, when I get home tonight I'll 100% commit L'aeeve Installation, Litter Jungle and Ceres Military Perimeter (or whichever that one is) to the mission so we can stop all this horsing around with L'aeeve. Ceres may need a few texture adjustments to fit the theme but I'll let you take a look and see what you think should be done first Xfing.

I may try my hand at the Mars mine sometime soon... will depend on how much time I have, but I really loved that texture scheme in the original game and I've never really built anything with it. Kinda disappointed there will only be one Mars level here.

Alter-Fox wrote:We've told you several times already that L'aeev is basically taken by me.

Then my level will have to go into a vertigo slot under some other name. I really don't care, so long as it meets the requirements and gets in.

Alter-Fox wrote:What happened to all your other projects?

I'm actually about to update Quantum, and finish and post a demo (the first seven levels) for a D1-D2 conversion project called "Descent 2: First Strike". Details will be in the thingy.

Alter-Fox wrote: I may try my hand at the Mars mine sometime soon... will depend on how much time I have, but I really loved that texture scheme in the original game and I've never really built anything with it. Kinda disappointed there will only be one Mars level here.

I did some research a while back, and (if you feel like doing a boss level as opposed to a reactor level) Varuna Military Base would also fit the texture scheme. I'm also making one with the texture scheme, but I really don't care whether it's Mars or Varuna, so I'll do the one you don't do.

On a side note, that was a bunch of different quotes from the same post by Alter-Fox, wasn't it?

Maybe it would be a good idea not to put your maps up on DMDB if you're intending to do this many.
I don't think any of us want to finally finish a fifty level mission only to find that everybody's played a good number of the maps already.

Holy cow, quite a bit of activity here!

Phozon wrote:so if i want to do one of the early descent 1 levels, i'm still confused,., doesn't everyone in the Solar System section's maps have to use the same .pig ?

Thing is, many Descent 1 textures didn't look very good with any of the six PIG files from D2, so Pumo went ahead and created another palette directly mirroring the one from D1, to be used with D2 levels. And yeah, if you're making a Solar System level, it would be best to use this one for obvious reasons. It was used for some of the Vertigo portion levels too, and perhaps will be for more, time will show.

As for you, LightWolf - gonna check out your latest submissions right now. If they do make it in, I'm capping you off at 5 level slots anyway - which means you have 2 to go. I don't want you hi-jacking this entire project, especially since you've got so many other projects started. Why don't I see those getting any closer to completion?