** Careful Mr. President !**
Moderators: Tunnelcat, Jeff250
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Tunnelcat
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Just heard on the news today that an aide to Cheney just happened to visit the Georgian President the day BEFORE he ordered his troops to invade the two breakaway republics. This also ties in with McCain's lobbyist visiting there also, BEFORE tensions broke out. Now Putin is accusing the U.S. of enticing the Georgian President to go ahead with his invasion in order to help an American Presidential candidate. Something smells with this whole thing.
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Tunnelcat
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Nope. I just hear little tidbits here and there. I don't consider myself paranoid, oh maybe a little bit, just intuitive and suspicious of anybody in power, especially with THIS administration and anything with Carl Rove's fingerprints on it. I'm not going to give Obama a free pass either if he manages to become President. Liberals have abused their power as well. We're all subject to human foibles and weaknesses. What was the famous line in the game Wing Commander IV, \"The price of freedom is eternal vigilence\" or something along those lines. If we give our leaders a pass on everything they do, we have nothing but ourselves to blame for the results.
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Will Robinson
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TC, Is Obama's foriegn policy inexperience so blatantly obvious that even a skirmish between Georgia and Russia that we don't respond to with any substance or commitment is enough to scare voters away from electing him?
That's one hell of a weakness in Team Obama if this was just a political ploy on the evil Repubs part!!
That's one hell of a weakness in Team Obama if this was just a political ploy on the evil Repubs part!!
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Tunnelcat
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No, my guess is it was meant as an unfortunately deadly stunt to show McCain's foreign policy experience so that he could puff up his image with rhetoric about what he would do if he were President. Why else would a lobbyist that works for McCain and a aide for Cheney visit this little podunk country that happens to share a border wtih Russia AND that also has a major oil pipeline running through it. They just HAPPEN to visit right before Saakashvili decides to flex his little pipsqeek army's might and show those two breakaway Republics who's boss. I'm betting he was told that the U.S. would back him up. Rube! Right after this all blows up, McCain comes out in the press and touts how HE would deal firmly with Russia with a big stick. Yeah, suuuuuuure! You know how it is with bears, you don't want to poke them with just a stick, they just might turn around and eat you for lunch. You'd better be prepared to use a deadly weapon. Oh, but the bear has deadly weapons too! I think Putin has it figured out.
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Nightshade
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Russian admiral: Our Black Sea fleet can destroy NATO’s group in 20 minutes
DEBKAfile Special Report
August 29, 2008, 7:56 PM (GMT+02:00)
Russian Navy missile practice in Black Sea
Russian Navy missile practice in Black Sea
Former Russian Black Sea Fleet commander, Adm. Eduard Baltin was quoted by Moscow media as saying Friday, Aug. 29: “Despite the apparent strength of the NATO naval group in the Black Sea… a single salvo from the Moskva missile cruiser and two or three missile boats would be enough to annihilate the entire group. Within 20 minutes, the waters would be clear.”
Adm. Baltin added: \"We will not strike first, and they do not look like people with suicidal tendencies.\"
The Russian Fleet deploys 16 warships in the Black Sea compared with 10 NATO vessels – three American, Polish, German and Spanish frigates, and four Turkish warships, soon to be augmented by another six, including the USS Mount Whitney, which is considered one of the most advanced warships in the world.
In Washington, White House spokeswoman Dana Perino rejected Russian prime minister Vladimir Putin’s assertion that US personnel were in the combat zone during the war in Georgia and “someone in the United States” provoked the conflict to help one of the candidates in the American presidential race.
In his first major remark since the Georgian crisis erupted, Putin quoted information provided by the Russian military but offered no evidence. Perino called his allegations “patently false and “not rational.”
DEBKAfile Special Report
August 29, 2008, 7:56 PM (GMT+02:00)
Russian Navy missile practice in Black Sea
Russian Navy missile practice in Black Sea
Former Russian Black Sea Fleet commander, Adm. Eduard Baltin was quoted by Moscow media as saying Friday, Aug. 29: “Despite the apparent strength of the NATO naval group in the Black Sea… a single salvo from the Moskva missile cruiser and two or three missile boats would be enough to annihilate the entire group. Within 20 minutes, the waters would be clear.”
Adm. Baltin added: \"We will not strike first, and they do not look like people with suicidal tendencies.\"
The Russian Fleet deploys 16 warships in the Black Sea compared with 10 NATO vessels – three American, Polish, German and Spanish frigates, and four Turkish warships, soon to be augmented by another six, including the USS Mount Whitney, which is considered one of the most advanced warships in the world.
In Washington, White House spokeswoman Dana Perino rejected Russian prime minister Vladimir Putin’s assertion that US personnel were in the combat zone during the war in Georgia and “someone in the United States” provoked the conflict to help one of the candidates in the American presidential race.
In his first major remark since the Georgian crisis erupted, Putin quoted information provided by the Russian military but offered no evidence. Perino called his allegations “patently false and “not rational.”
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"Political power grows out of the barrel of a gun" - Mao Zedong
"Political power grows out of the barrel of a gun" - Mao Zedong
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Will Robinson
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Re:
Sillyness I think.tunnelcat wrote:No, my guess is it was meant as an unfortunately deadly stunt to show McCain's foreign policy experience so that he could puff up his image with rhetoric about what he would do if he were President. Why else would a lobbyist that works for McCain and a aide for Cheney visit this little podunk country that happens to share a border wtih Russia AND that also has a major oil pipeline running through it. They just HAPPEN to visit right before Saakashvili decides to flex his little pipsqeek army's might and show those two breakaway Republics who's boss. I'm betting he was told that the U.S. would back him up. Rube! Right after this all blows up, McCain comes out in the press and touts how HE would deal firmly with Russia with a big stick. Yeah, suuuuuuure! You know how it is with bears, you don't want to poke them with just a stick, they just might turn around and eat you for lunch. You'd better be prepared to use a deadly weapon. Oh, but the bear has deadly weapons too! I think Putin has it figured out.
McCain doesn't need to fabricate a war somewhere between two other countries to bring up his credentials and show contrast between himself and Obama, he already has a war ongoing that America is involved in to do that!!
The voters care maybe a little about a fight between Georgia and Russia, they care a whole lot more about a fight between America and anybody...
As to why they went to visit, how about this, they went to tell Saakashvili to back off or Putin might cross your border and embarrass us all!!
You don't think Georgia was able to move it's troops across the map without us knowing about it do you? Same for Russia...we saw what was about to happen it took them time to get all those troops and tanks on the border to roll in there like that.
We knew the place was on the verge and believe it or not the current administration does take an active role in trying gather and protect it's allies especially in that part of the world.
If assuming everything is an evil plot like you can read about in comic books or the Daily Kos fits your template well go ahead and believe it but there is a lot more to the situation than you might be willing to consider. In spite of your disdain for the current administration they are very busy working on stuff they are supposed to be working on, it's not all just sitting around planning how to screw the democrats.