DescentBB

That's not the only strange term of endearment among some circles.

I will warn you however, there are some naysayers upset about the (some call it 'cheap') difficulty placement of certain robot types later in the set. All I have to say is this:
When play testing it through on Ace, I've given enough armament throughout the set to allow players to handle anything that is thrown at them. Each 'cheap' encounter is a problem to solve. Figure out the proper weaponry to use in each situation and you will come through just fine. I find that I used a wide variety of secondaries in the mission set, more so than I've ever used in other sets, where I mostly rely on my primary cannons.
So make use of everything you have. Because there will be situations where I'll be throwing some Golems, a couple Kalkis and some Warlords for kicks at you all at once with a dash of other misc. robots in the background for good measure. So you need to be aware of challenges like that and prepare for the worst. I'm not Nintendo, I don't cater to the lowest denominator of player skill, but I did try to make it reasonable within the difficulty I was gunning for.

DFW I see no reason why you should explain yourself.
You released a big levelset which beats the original game campain. Fact.
You made it for challenged players. Fact.

Players will always whine. Same will many players enjoy it. You can never please anyone, but those you cannot are always the loudest. Fact.

When I look back to Levels of the World I see some level designs (levels that just make no sense or actually levels with bugs) I cannot believe how they managed to get on the CD-Rom back then. TEW stands highly above that - no matter how you look at it. There is neither a \"rule\" how to place bots nor something else that will tell you how your level should work.
Good and Bad is definetly something subjective (at least partially).

Still haven't had the chance to play through this yet, but hearing of the difficulty level is really intriguing me.

Don't worry about the naysayers, DFW. Having challenging levels is a good thing in my book.

thanks for the comments. I guess I should re-iterate to everyone, expect a few cheap deaths due to lack of prior knowledge of what robots are in store. However, once over the initial: WTF!?!?! and the instant cheap death later, you'll know what's coming and be able to say: \"Bring it!\" LOL
Hope you get a chance Foil, it really is a fun time.

Well, I just finished The Enemy Within. I can see I won't be playing that on insane mode anytime soon. This took a lot of time to to get through and was as addictive as the first time I played Descent.

Good thing I mainly played CTF because the Capture and Evade along with the Hit and Run tactics were needed as was a boat load of Patience. I had to kill myself a couple times with lava just to get ammo to go find ammo.

It was a lot of fun to play and I am happy I came across the D2X-XL thread that got me started in reverse with Descent.

If you have not played The Enemy Within, you should. Just remember patience, as you are not going to be able to go in gunslinging all the time.

I got a kick out of the robot that opened the door to come get my a$$. So much for that break I was taking.

Thanks to those who put this together.

I got one question about the last level. (Level 26 - The Sunspire)

How do you get the floor to open up to get to the teleporter for the secret level?

Happens when the boss dies. At least, it's supposed to. You'll need to be quick.

Sirius wrote:Happens when the boss dies. At least, it's supposed to. You'll need to be quick.

Yep, that was it. A choice, hmmmmm, hadn't thought of that. Guess I won't be going back out that way.

Sadistic Secret Level to spawn in. No doors for cover and the openings covered by cloaked bots.

I saved it where I spawned so I can look over the map a while before I move since I was depleted of major secondaries with the previous bots.

well I put in enough ammo to blow up several armies in that challenge level. Because I knew you'd be hurting from level 26, so there is enough weaponry there to recover what you lost and give you a fighting chance. You just need to 'get to them' first.

geez lawheeze! I just, FINALLY, beat it on Insane. It wasn't as bad on Ace, which was manageable for me. But apparently, the robots increased their lethality by leaps and bounds between Ace and Insane difficulty. I highly suggest no one attempt Insane unless you are some Descent god with no short fuse. I prefer the set personally on Hotshot skill level. It seems to be just the right difficulty for me. The real clincher levels which can make or break people, that I've found are these:
level 10 - introduction of Terapinners and Komodos don't help. Pipers are annoying here
level 13 - small spaces, lava tubes, and the yellow key area is deadly
level 17 - a few cheap shots and robot placements can make this a pain, but with patience and good use of secondaries should win the day
level 22 - Encroached spaces and deadly robot combinations make this a deadly level, the final red door area is lethal
level 25 - robot makers, powerful robots, and a boss that has a back weak spot protected by 3 Kalki matcens, this is truly a beast of a level.
Other than that, the other levels can be gotten through with minimal difficulty with only a few tricky spots.
So what are your tough spots in the set?

Okay here is my half-way resume about THE ENEMY WITHIN.
I am currently stuck at level 16... and I just cannot find the Yellow key. Anyone?

Sorry if I do not talk about each level seperately. I just talk about what comes to my mind.
But so far I am impressed that each level actually kept the described \"themes\" pretty good which gave the levels consistency. No level gives me the impression it might be unstructurized.

Because I do not want to spoil anyone I just want to say:
I really like the Storyline. Maybe some do not really care in such games, but for me it's always a nice thing and I The Enemy Within gives a WAY better Story than the whole D3 + Mercanery gave (personal opinion... I am not that much a D3 fan however).

Second thing I came into my mind: The music ROCKS! Just for the game01.hmp - ten thumbs up.

The level deisng is really good in my opinion.
The first 8 levels gave me that \"Quartzon\" Feeling. Dark halls, water... cool. I love that on D2. I also saw some of those levels MIGHT - maybe not intentionally - captured some of the level designs used in D3... well okay - not a D3 fan, but nice.
My personal... \"non-favourites\" were level 4, level 9 and level 13.

Level 4... caves.. I just do not like that. However a very good design for a level... Descent3 reminder for me again.
The \"sky outlets\" were a pretty nice idea, but when I played the level it just did not looked like that... more like a strain of gems or so... I liked that idea better.
Still: it looked like a CAVE actually - not just \"a D2 level\".

Level 9 definetly had VERY cool areas - surreal - I like that. Alway sloved such ideas in D1.
But actually the beginning in that level - before you reach the mealstrom - that somehow looked a bit uninspired to me. Don't get me wrong - the rest of the level was awesome - but that first room was my first impression and it just did not represented the level theme - even not as introduction - in my opinion. Same goes for some \"connection\" areas between the \"cool rooms\" if you get my idea. Somehow the level was like: \"We have some cool rooms - let's just connect them... SOMEHOW\".

Level 13 was a VERY COOL level. But I HATE lava-tunnels. AND I HATE to fly tru lava-falls contantly...
If anything was hard on that level: it was the level itself.
But enough with the critics so far.

Level 14 was my very favourite so far. A really inspiring level structure. And I just loved the \"run\" in the end. (would like to say more, but no spoilers)

The boss levels also amazed me in a way. Second boss level with that big sphere. Cool! D1 lvl 7 feeling - just with a HUGHE SPHERE - awesome.
Third boss... I mean... I think I'll have nitemares about chessboards tonight. Rest of the level design also was very cool. A bit reminded me to D2: CS level 2 and 4 in the same place - just \"WOW THE BIGNESS!!!!\" (Hey, I made up a word... bigness - lol).
It was also the first level I actually died. I was just in totally covered by Fulcrum's when the Boss shot something big at me ...

Which brings me to the most discussed topic here.
Difficulty with the robots.

The Enemy Within had - as far as I can relate - a bit different gameplay than D2: CS.
In D2 you can rush around. TEW demands you to sneak around a little bit, sniping and be careful in general - Death waits behind every corner - literally.
I had no problems with that as I played all Descent games like that.
However Fulcrum and Matrid often enough gave me a hard time... ESPECIALLY IN Level 13!!!
That MIGHT be the only thing where I COULD agree these fast robots just appeared a bit \"unfair\" in the lava tunnels.
Those guys are just fast. Quad Superlasers or Gauss.. my only hope to survive them.

My personal shame: So far I have not even found ONE secret level. D'OH! Okay actually I took too much time to enjoy the levels by itself, tried to survive and also look around for bugs in DXX at the same time.

Also I noticed a lot of switches, but my BEST talent is to shot switches and THEN realizing, you bastards (j/k) made these \"open one time\"-doors and my last savegame was two levels before that switch.

However as it looks now, I will definetly give this set some more runs after finished for the first time. Then with deeper exploration.

If I might add another point of critics: I am normally a cockpit player. However despite the good design of the new cockpit... I think it somehow takes up too much space. It might only differ a little bit, but yet alone the \"window bars\" are just too much in center. It really fits to the design of the ship, but the view is - in my opinion - worse than with the original cockpits.

Well - I hope I can continue my \"Review\" after I've finally found the Yellow key in level 16. Means: Help me !!!

Regards, zico

P.S. So far (as not being a D3 fan) TEW is 'my' Descent3.

If level 16 is Ice Reactor Cavern like I think it is, the yellow key is beneath a secret door somewhere near a robot generator that should be really easy to find. As for the secret door... well, actually I think there's a trigger in the energy centre that opens it. Look around - you should be able to spot it OK.

Well if it is any consolation, the Mantids actually originally had an energy pulse as a part of their normal repitoire. But after some extensive testing, we found it was far too early to introduce an enemy THAT fast with a pulse, so we killed it. Much to the chagrin of Diedel who wanted to have the Mantid 'keep his balls.' But it was eliminated for the good of the set, imo.
Anyway, feel free to AIM me at Darkflamewolfie for any help. I can lend any hints I can. Enjoy the rest of the set, it only gets better wait until you check out the final level! LOL

First of all: Thanks for the hints for the Yellow Key

Now I've finally beaten it.
I can only say the levels kept a nice structure - one I liked it.
From level 21 ... the game got VERY cruel. Masses of bots and never a quit minute.
Level 23 just cost be 3 lives just because I *tried* to rush into a new part of that cave. By the way I liked that cave much better. Maybe because of the more \"2D-like\" structure. 25 and 26... well.... HARDCORE. I am also pretty proud that except te exit to the challenge level I found pretty many secret areas. All 6 Earthshakers.

Now I will try to find the challenge level.

Thanks again for providing such a great levelset.
ALSO thanks so much for keeping it in the original Descent2 level format so everyone can enjoy it.

yes, the game after level 20, does get a substantial difficulty boost. The boss of level 20 was just a taste of what was to come. But thankfully it seems you made it through okay. If you want tips on finding the secret levels, let me know and I'll PM them to ya! Congrats!

I noted down the location of the levels at the end of the credits.
I think that should do it to get a real chance finding them.

After all I can say TEW was much fun. Sure I needed to debug and keep my eyes open for potential bugs in the engine... and some happened... often because TEW levels *stressed* the engine so much so it reveled bugs already present in the original engine.
That slowed down the fun playing a bit, but unrelated from that, it was a very satisfying experience.

As the robot presence in the levels was very hard it felt pretty rewarding for me to clean up instead of just rushing tru. ~40 lives in the end speak for that I guess.

now for details:
what was the hardest moment for you?
What was the one moment where you say back and said, \"wow?\"
If anything, what would you have changed to be different?

Hmmm it's hard to nail down definete moments, bit lemme think...

The hardest moment(s):
- The MOST hard moment of course level 25 boss room.
In the end I rushed into, provoked the matcens, and took down the Kalkis from the yellow/blue connection-tunnels until they stopped spawning.
- Second hardest moment level 23.
Just when I thought it would be safe to proceed, another Golem and/or (mostly AND) Warlord waited behind the next corner.

The WOW moment(s):
Here I definetly want to seperate between moments and whole levels.

WOW-moments:
- Level 9 - the dark chamber with the pillars (see Screenshot on page 1). Great optical effect.
- Level 10 - boss room. Big room, big structure in the middle - Happiness/WOW-trigger.
- Level 14 - the EXIT run
- Level 26 - the central spire Hub. One of the few levels I saw that gives me an actual feeling of height even with that old engine.
- unspecified - The actual idea NOT to place Key X+1 behind door X but instead just using a switch which changes something in a level so you can proceed.
I liked that VERY much. It's about ★■◆●ing time someone finally realized how to make the process tru a level more interesting!

WOW-levels:
- Level 8 - which was for me a great reprise of Quartzon - my fav system in D2.
- Level 14 - I somehow just liked the structure of that whole level - hard to explain.
- Level 15 - it was just BIG and atmospheric.
- Level 21 - Build up completly around the main reactor room was a very great idea for a level structure.
- Level 22 - Not REALLY a WOW level - a half one - but I want to give Kudos for that very nice design.
- Level 23 - The first cave level in ANY game I ever liked. Enemies where just endless. Gave me a great fight. Whistled \"WOW\" each time I managed to save my process.
- Level 26 - What to say... BIG, and the fight right in the beginning of the level was intense.


If I could change SOMETHING in the levelset I it would have been two things:

1) Level 9: As written before I found the \"connections\" between the actual surreal rooms made a bit uninspired look to me. Yet alone the beginning room. In a look back to the level I ask myself what impression it would have left behind if those connection rooms just where made out of COMPLETLY twisted tunnels which made you completly lose the feel of up and down. And I do not only mean corkscrew tunnels... just COMPLETLY messed up ones.
I am NOT a level designer... maybe it would suck.

2) I KNOW now I should not bring this up....
Level 13...
I would *not* have placed so many Matids and Fulcrums INSIDE the lava tunnels. I just.. never found a possibility to deal with them without ramming my ship to the lava walls... in the lava ROOMS I could deal with them.. but not in the tunnels...
I talk SUBJECTIVE here guys!
I just never found any strategy when facing any of these two very fast bots inside a narrow tunnel... from a SUBJECTIVE (remember that) look I would say that was \"unfair\" (by not giving me a possibility to solve the situation without major damage).

These two things are the only real critics I can come up with. I still enjoyed all levels for sure. Was just too easy for me to enjoy my fav game with fresh new levels again instead of whining about it (as... others... MAY... do, right? ).

Level 14 is heavily reminescent of level 11 of \"Troy 2000\" (a free sidescrolling game from JJSoft). I think both levels are awesome (the Troy 2000 one and the TEW one).

I never knew that Alter-fox.
Zico, did you ever find all secret levels? And more importantly, did you finally 'crack' all of them and get the shakers from each one?

This is simply a masterpiece and it's even better than Descent3 really even I my self call the Descent 3 as it could of been a very good sequel.

I do have good news though i used DXX_Rebirth 0.55 and it works fine on the following setups:

Gradinko

Dual Pentium!!!/EB 1000, 2x 1000Mhz , 2x 256KB L2, 2x 133Mhz FSB
4x 256MB PC-133 Micron Crucial
ABiT VP6 VIA Apollo Pro 133 A Chipset
ASUS ATi Radeon X800XT PE AGP 256MB 256Bit GDDR3
Creative Sound Blaster Audigy2 Platinum eX

Win XP Pro + SP3
Omega Cat. 7.04


Blue-Leader

AMD AthlonXP 2700+ Thoroughbred-B @ 2167Mhz , 333Mhz, 256KB L2
EPoX EP-8K3A+ VIA Apollo KT333 Chipset
3x 512MB PC-3200 Kingston HyperX @ PC-2700
3dfx Voodoo5 5500 AGP 64MB Rev.A 2300
Creative Sound Blaster Audigy2 Platinum
@ 1024 x 768 x32 + FSAA x4 not a problem at all on my 5500 PCI Mac Flashed to PC Bios 1.18_DVI

System used:
Win2K Pro USA + SP4
SFFT ALPHA 41



Yoda

Dell Inspiron 9100 Xtreme + Planet 21 Backpack
Intel Pentium4-E 3400 HT [3400 Mhz + Hyper Threading, 1MB L2, 800Mhz FSB]
Intel 865G based motherboard
2x 512MB PC-3200 CL3 Infineon Dual DDR 400
ATi M18 Mobility Radeon 9800 AGP 256MB 256Bit GDDR2 2.5ns based on R420M
Hitatchi 100GB 4200 rpm 2.5\" HDD
15,4\" WUXGA TFT max Reso 1920 x 1200 x32 @ 60 Herz

Win XP Pro + SP3
Omega Cat. 7.04


Sveta

Dual OpteronDP 248 CG 2x 2205Mhz, 2x 1MB L2, 6x 16Bit 800Mhz HT Links
2x 1024MB PC3200 ECC Reg. Kingston Server Ram
MSI MS-9130 K8T Master2 FAR VIA K8T800 Chipset
Sapphire ATi Radeon HD 3850 AGP 512MB 256Bit GDDR3
3dfx Voodoo5 5500 PCI Macintosh 64MB 128Bit SDR
OnBoard Realtek AC-97

Win XP Pro + SP3
ATi Cat. 8.12 + AGP Hotfix
SFFT Alpha 41 modified by ps47


Firefox

Dual OpteronDP 285 E6 4x 2616Mhz, 4x 1MB L2, 6x 32Bit 1000Mhz HT Links
4x 1024MB PC3200 ECC Reg. Kingston Server Ram
ASUS K8N DL NVIDIA NForce Pro 2200 Chipset
XFX GeForce 9800 GX2 XXX Edition PCI-E 1024MB 512Bit GDDR3
Realtek AC'97 8.1 Onboard sound

Win Vista Business + SP1
ForceWare 180.48 Big Bang II Drivers

On all systems the game runs without graphical as stability problems! So that's a very good advantage for all NTFS MS OS'es as the different VGA cards I used to test this modification for Descent 2 with DXX_Rebirth 0.55, was very surprised that even the 3dfx cards coped without troubles.

Great thanx to the creators of DXX_Rebirth @ The Evil Within for this awesome job and I thank you both for keeping the Descent 1/2 spirit alive for all of these long years of it's existence!

Thanks for your comments, its greatly appreciated among the crew of this set. The credit really goes to those who helped the level set and provided content for it. Enemy Within could not have been completed without their help.
I'm currently working on an aspiring 50 level Descent 1 campaign with hopefully Sirius backing me up on two boss levels (need to check in with him about that). Its going slow, but I have close to 10 levels done at this point and since they are relatively small in nature overall, its not like its TOO ambitious. But don't expect it the first half of 2009, that's for sure. And even if I never complete all 50 levels, I'll still release what I have, that way the intense work I put into the levels already won't go to waste. (nor will any levels Sirius' contributes)

50 level Descent 1 campaign

WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOT!!!

Still got them on my list. I'd say expect them some time Feb or March.

Glad you are excited, but don't be so hopeful about all 50. I 'plan' to finish them all, but if I don't, I'm still going to release what I have. They are simply too good to just trash. So regardless if it reaches the full 50 or not, something WILL be released.

Hey, if you get to the half, it will still be the largest levelset I've seen besides the original one.

And that would still be very awesome.

Good to see the cockpit working on several different systems. It took Wizard a few goes to get it working for Obsidian on the Mac.

Btw. (just to clarify - as we speak about the cockpit problems) as the Images by Gold Leader show another Reticle is not a problem of TEW or such. It's just an option in rebirth. The TEW reticle also works.

I saw it was different from the standard D2 reticle, so I assumed that was why.

Ok, last night I finished TEW, after going through the Challenge Level as well (what a ride it was!).

I played it on D2X-Rebirth 0.55 - works fine (yay for Zico).

Ok, let's see...

Storyline: Awesome. Being an amateur writer (and journalist), I was very impressed by the way the plot of TEW developed. I bet a short novel could easily be concocted out of it

Levels: Oh boy, most of them were amazing. Until playing TEW, Vertigo was my standard for interesting level design. Not anymore, I guess.

Honorable mentions:
level 3 - A weird but very intriguing concept. I liked it.
level 4 - Great atmosphere, even though the \"sky outlets\" illusion didn't work for me (I thought those were mineral deposits in cracks).
level 9 - My personal favorite
level 10 - The sphere concept is cool.
level 11 - This level is hot! (pun intended)
level 15 - The chessboard was a nice surprise. It certainly is more than meets the eye...
level 20 - The final battle was really exciting.
level 22 - Great atmosphere, again. I could almost feel the heat.
level 23 - The ruined brick walls throughout the level give it a slight feel of \"urban warfare\" - and indeed I had to resort to guerilla tactics to beat this level.
level 24 - I remember playing this as a standalone level for Descent 1. I liked it then, and I like it even more as a part of TEW
level 26 - Finally, a level with some \"PTMC corporate\" feel to it. I loved the huge open spaces and the room where the final battle takes place.

secret lvl 1 - The first room was a bit creepy - probably because of that \"The End is Near\" message. The puzzles were good.
secret lvl 2 - Great concept, but I was left a bit frustrated with this one.
secret lvl 3 - So huge, I got lost! I could never find the way to the reactor so I left the level intact (I usually destroy secret levels).
secret lvl 4 - Liked it very much, especially the final puzzle (wink, wink).
secret lvl 5 - The two guided missile tunnels were very hard, but being stubborn as I am - I succeeded. Initially, I made the mistake of rushing into the reactor room. Bad idea... I should have paid more attention to the screenshot provided in this thread.

challenge level - Frankly, I expected to fight Dravis himself in this level
Anyway, it was a great battle with a slight creepy feeling to it, too - it was like I was fighting the ghosts of previously defeated bosses.

Favorite Robot Design: Kalki - probably because it looks like a small spaceship... or because it looks like a miniature version of Battlestar Galactica (it really does!)

Favorite Plot Twist: The ending. Can't think of a better example of super-villain manipulating everyone else.

Great job guys!

thanks for the comments, I'm glad you liked the story, I toiled over it for about a week before settling on its final form. I knew who the final villian would be, but getting there without the player figuring it out until the last moment was a bit tricky. So in the writing of the briefing, you'll notice a lot of vague words used in reference to who the villian was and how he was talking to you. So that proved a bit tricky. In fact, the title of the entire mission came after the fact about the story. It wasn't until the story was finalized that the title change seemed appropriate.
As for the levels, there are an amazing set of designs and I'm proud of all the designers who contributed to the project. We truly created something amazing.

The Kalki does have some similarities to Battlestar Galactica, I suppose. It's closer to a FS2 Hecate-class destroyer though.

my favorite bot is actually the Bolas. It has such a iconic design that I wouldn't blink an eye if it was originally one of the standard D2 robots when Descent 2 first was released. Its just got such perfect form.
This bot is followed up by the Terapinner and Gatling.

zico wrote: Second thing I came into my mind: The music ROCKS! Just for the game01.hmp - ten thumbs up.

Check this out.

http://www.newgrounds.com/audio/listen/65367

heh, if there is a whole collection of the entire TEW soundtrack like this one, I may just make a .ogg pack specifically for D2-XL users to enjoy.

Sirius wrote:Still got them on my list. I'd say expect them some time Feb or March.

well its nearing the end of feb, close to March. haha
Anyway, the more I play this set, the more I appreciate the fact that I didn't back down on difficulty with the robots. The more you play the set, the easier it becomes. To the point that most times, robots don't pose a problem anymore. So I personally feel that the robots were 'just right' for the set. They may have initially been a bit too hard for many players who are so used to 'docile' robots and robots who don't give much of a challenge. So this was sort of a kick in the nuts for many laid-back Descent 2 players.

Yeah, I'm still sorting a few things out. In a week I'll be down to my actual day job, and will have my main computer back, which should give me the ability to do any of the things I actually want to again.

I created my own ogg soundtrack for TEW... I like the midi music, but D2X-XL either crashes or stutters when any midi music loops, which is quite annoying. I used mostly my own compositions for the soundtrack (from various other projects), but I also took a few from Newgrounds. I gave each level its own music.

Alter-Fox wrote:I like the midi music, but D2X-XL either crashes or stutters when any midi music loops, which is quite annoying.

Weird. This doesn't happens at all on my side, i've used both D2X-XL and D2X-Rebirth and don't have any problem with MIDI music here.

Maybe your MIDI drivers are not correctly installed. I'm using a Yamaha UX-16 MIDI-USB cable (latest drivers installed) with output to my Yamaha keyboard and everything works smoothly with all D2 versions.

Anyway, regarding TEW soundtrack, personally it's not my favorite but it has some cool & nice songs on some levels (Maybe my favorite of the set is Level 1 music )

Although i prefer soundtracks from Obsidian/Entropy 2/Orion Nebula Project

The one thing the Descent community was really short on was veteran composers, so the soundtrack wasn't as good as earlier missions.