DescentBB

tunnelcat wrote:Will, I cede your point. I'm a little blinded by Bush hatred,

a "little" ???

... and divvy up those nice oil fields as a present to Big Oil.

Has this happened? How is your meme doing today?

I know that BP and others have been awarded contracts to operate in Iraq's Rumaila field. But this has happened through agreements with Iraq's national oil company. http://www.bp.com/genericarticle.do?cat ... Id=7057650

Sorry that this doesn't fit your scorched-earth, robber baron prejudice.

But that smirk on his face as he sat looking off into space holding a children's book while thousands of Americans were being murdered is a big stain on his presidency. It sticks in my craw. What in God's green earth was going on behind the look in those eyes? He's not even looking at the book! Why in the hell he didn't get up, make a pleasant excuse to leave the class and go like any concerned president would normally do if our country was being attacked? It's either coldly calculated, insane or just plain weird. Buffing this guy's image for posterity while deriding Obama is nuts and I'll keep on the case of all right wingers trying to do it!

Gosh, what do the poor kids who Bush was reading to that day at the Booker Elementary School think? Let's see

One thing the students would like to tell Bush's critics — like liberal filmmaker Michael Moore, whose 2004 documentary Fahrenheit 911 disparaged Bush for lingering almost 10 minutes with the students after getting word that two planes had crashed into the World Trade Center — is that they think the President did the right thing. "I think he was trying to keep everybody calm, starting with us," says Guerrero. Dubrocq agrees: "I think he was trying to protect us." Booker Principal Gwendolyn Tose-Rigell, who died in 2007, later insisted, "I don't think anyone could have handled it better. What would it have served if [Bush] had jumped out of his chair and ran out of the room?"

http://www.time.com/time/nation/article ... z1LKFS8GEw

Drive by post.

But this has happened through agreements with Iraq's national oil company

Don't let the fact of who propped that entity up get into your equation though.
I'm pretty sure we can all agree together that there's been a hell of a lot of collusion and back room handshakes throughout this whole war. Starting in early 1990's. Bush Sr. was or still is a 5 million dollar a year paid consultant of the ruling Saudi family and the Saudi's and Saddam were no friends. They were business competitors. I see lots of room for gain on a grand scale if done correctly.

CUDA, woodchip, are you listening to yourselves? He was President and Commander in Chief during the biggest national terrorist crisis in history and he just SITS THERE? WTF? I mean, WTF? Let all the lower minions make the important decisions THAT SHOULD BE MADE BY THE PRESIDENT WITH HALF AN OUNCE OF BRAINS or maybe GET TO A SECURE, SAFE LOCATION PRONTO? Why didn't he do THAT at least, go to one of those secure locations set up for the President? Unless he knew that Florida wasn't a target of course! You're both deluded by Bush love because he was "your guy" in office! You have that same affliction with Reagan.

As for that expression, that was no "contemplative mood' shown on his face. Go watch the video on YouTube. He's smirking and clearly nervous, but not someone that looks like they really want to stand up and get the hell out of there RIGHT NOW and go make the important decisions in a time of crisis. It's more of a nervous 'lets wait and see what happens next' look in my opinion.

And if going into Iraq wasn't about access to oil from the beginning, tell me what was the reason, and not some cooked up BS. Cheney was an oil man and in charge of the nation's energy policy. I'm sure he practically drooled at the prospects of Iraqi oil. Neither Al Qaeda, nor Bin Laden were in Iraq back in 2001, so that's not it. In fact, Bin Laden was located at that very compound he was found in last week ALL during the last part of Bush's presidency and well into Obama's. He was there all that time and Bush could've cared less. He got his little Iraq invasion out of it.

And don't tell me my hatred of Bush has made me lose touch with reality. I'm willing to bet that I'm not in the minority. There's probably a large minority that hate Obama too. Both of you don't exactly like Obama either, but you woodchip, must have a special dislike of Obama. Your avatar broadcasts your loathing! TB at least had the common sense to get rid of his, unless he just got bored with it. I bet you'd sell your soul just to get him out of office woodchip. But like CUDA said, elections will determine Obama's fate.

tunnelcat wrote:CUDA, woodchip, are you listening to yourselves? He was President and Commander in Chief during the biggest national terrorist crisis in history and he just SITS THERE? WTF? I mean, WTF? Let all the lower minions make the important decisions THAT SHOULD BE MADE BY THE PRESIDENT WITH HALF AN OUNCE OF BRAINS or maybe GET TO A SECURE, SAFE LOCATION PRONTO? Why didn't he do THAT at least, go to one of those secure locations set up for the President? Unless he knew that Florida wasn't a target of course! You're both deluded by Bush love because he was "your guy" in office! You have that same affliction with Reagan.

Actually I've tried to look at this quite objectively. Unlike you who by your Own admission is blinded by hatred for the man.

Let all the lower minions make the important decisions THAT SHOULD BE MADE BY THE PRESIDENT WITH HALF AN OUNCE OF BRAINS

and exactly WHAT decisions were made by the "lower Minions" on the day? if Bush didn't make or wasn't aware of them? evidence please. your "OPINIONS" mean nothing

NOT TO MENTION, that the president was already aware of the first plane that had hit tower 1. they thought it was an FAA type accident. he was probably already briefed about it BEFORE he even went to the class room by one of his "MINIONS" and again Briefed by one of his "Minions" once he left the school. BEFORE he made any decisions. It's all so easy for you to sit back and judge a man with out ANY Idea of what was said. done. or what he was thinking during a crisis situation isn't it.

GET TO A SECURE, SAFE LOCATION PRONTO?

didn't he do that???
so he waited 10 minutes Big deal, it probably took that long to bring his Limo around

it painfully OBVIOUS your not familiar with American Airlines flight 91 that crashed in Pennsylvania. you do know that it's target was the White house don't you???
you know the place where the President lives. But I'm sure in your Mind the President was aware of the target. that's why he was in Florida with the Smirk on his face Huh

I imagine one of the reasons people cling to their hates so stubbornly is because they sense, once hate is gone, they will be forced to deal with pain.
James A. Baldwin

your afraid to deal with the pain of reality TC

CUDA wrote:Actually I've tried to look at this quite objectively. Unlike you who by your Own admission is blinded by hatred for the man.

CUDA, I didn't always have these feelings. I actually voted for the guy in 2000 because I thought Gore was a Clinton sycophant. All the actions he did after 9/11 changed that. I wasn't any one particular thing, just the compilation of crap he did while in office. I can't possibly name everything because it would take a novel to list. But suffice to say, between the My Pet Goat incident during the 9/11 attacks, the 2 unfunded wars based on manufactured lies, passing the buck on the massive national debt HE created, not funding Medicare Part D after 2 years so that it would come due on someone else's watch, DOMA, attempts at privatizing Social Security, hiring Carl Rove to run his machinations behind the scenes and trash his enemies reputations (not that other presidents haven't done the same thing), calling himself a patriot while he shirked his own military duty with favors from daddy (yes, our old nemesis Clinton did something similar), same for war mongering Cheney, etc., etc., is just a small part of my problem with him. I could go on and on, but it's just not worth trying to remember, prove and dredge up all the crap he did.

CUDA wrote:

Let all the lower minions make the important decisions THAT SHOULD BE MADE BY THE PRESIDENT WITH HALF AN OUNCE OF BRAINS

and exactly WHAT decisions were made by the "lower Minions" on the day? if Bush didn't make or wasn't aware of them? evidence please. your "OPINIONS" mean nothing
NOT TO MENTION, that the president was already aware of the first plane that had hit tower 1. they thought it was an FAA type accident. he was probably already briefed about it BEFORE he even went to the class room by one of his "MINIONS" and again Briefed by one of his "Minions" once he left the school. BEFORE he made any decisions. It's all so easy for you to sit back and judge a man with out ANY Idea of what was said. done. or what he was thinking during a crisis situation isn't it.

He sat there like a deer in the road frozen by the headlights, nuff said. So I ask you this, why did this whole thing take place during the longest presidential vacation in history? Why did Jeb mobilize the Florida National Guard for his visit? Remember, ol' Jeb's his brother.

CUDA wrote:

GET TO A SECURE, SAFE LOCATION PRONTO?

didn't he do that???
so he waited 10 minutes Big deal, it probably took that long to bring his Limo around

10 minutes is a very short time for things to happen, unless he already knew he wasn't in target range and could saunter out after the poop hit the fan.

CUDA wrote:it painfully OBVIOUS your not familiar with American Airlines flight 91 that crashed in Pennsylvania. you do know that it's target was the White house don't you???
you know the place where the President lives. But I'm sure in your Mind the President was aware of the target. that's why he was in Florida with the Smirk on his face Huh

Oh, I know that very well, but I think that's a mistake. I think the plane that hit the Pentagon was the one that was supposed to hit the White House, but the pilot couldn't see it through the tall trees, so he went for another target of opportunity. The one that crashed in Pennsylvania was probably headed towards the Capital. My guess.

CUDA wrote:

I imagine one of the reasons people cling to their hates so stubbornly is because they sense, once hate is gone, they will be forced to deal with pain.
James A. Baldwin

your afraid to deal with the pain of reality TC

Maybe. I'm getting old and bitter and I'll be dead not to long in the future, so maybe I should just let all the right wingers buff the images of their conservative presidents and tarnish the image of those liberal presidents and live with the results. After all, liberals do the same thing with theirs. I won't buff ALL of Obama's legacy, because he's failed at many of the things he promised to change, BUT AT LEAST HE DID GET BIN LADEN, so tough sh*t! Bush had the opportunity and dropped the ball, plain and simple.

Heretic, the whole page if possible.

tunnelcat wrote:...
I won't buff ALL of Obama's legacy, because he's failed at many of the things he promised to change, BUT AT LEAST HE DID GET BIN LADEN, so tough sh*t! Bush had the opportunity and dropped the ball, plain and simple.

...

Well you better find something else to buff then because it is plain and simple but it isn't quite what you think.

Bush didn't drop the ball, he never shut down the CIA hunt and their interrogation machine, on the contrary he kept feeding them more and more prisoners! And as it turns out at least two of them identified the key player who's name was eventually learned through those interrogations and then a little later located in Pakistan by way of one of those illegal wiretaps!
If Bush had kept all the troops in Afghanistan and stayed out of Iraq, and if when Obama took over, he had kept them all there still turning over rocks looking for the hole bin Laden crawled under they wouldn't have found him because bin Laden WAS IN PAKISTAN!!!
And the way we FINALLY figured out where he was hiding wasn't from having X number of soldiers in Afghanistan and it wasn't from anything that Obama changed.

tunnelcat wrote:

CUDA wrote:

Let all the lower minions make the important decisions THAT SHOULD BE MADE BY THE PRESIDENT WITH HALF AN OUNCE OF BRAINS

and exactly WHAT decisions were made by the "lower Minions" on the day? if Bush didn't make or wasn't aware of them? evidence please. your "OPINIONS" mean nothing
NOT TO MENTION, that the president was already aware of the first plane that had hit tower 1. they thought it was an FAA type accident. he was probably already briefed about it BEFORE he even went to the class room by one of his "MINIONS" and again Briefed by one of his "Minions" once he left the school. BEFORE he made any decisions. It's all so easy for you to sit back and judge a man with out ANY Idea of what was said. done. or what he was thinking during a crisis situation isn't it.

He sat there like a deer in the road frozen by the headlights, nuff said. So I ask you this, why did this whole thing take place during the longest presidential vacation in history? Why did Jeb mobilize the Florida National Guard for his visit? Remember, ol' Jeb's his brother.

so what your saying is that you have NO evidence at all that his "Minions" were making his decisions. and your basing your comments off of your "feelings" because you didn't approve of the way he reacted during the Crisis.

'In reality there exists only Fact and Fiction, Opinion results from a lack of the former and a reliance on the later

tunnelcat wrote:

CUDA wrote:

GET TO A SECURE, SAFE LOCATION PRONTO?

didn't he do that???
so he waited 10 minutes Big deal, it probably took that long to bring his Limo around

10 minutes is a very short time for things to happen, unless he already knew he wasn't in target range and could saunter out after the poop hit the fan.

CUDA wrote:it painfully OBVIOUS your not familiar with American Airlines flight 91 that crashed in Pennsylvania. you do know that it's target was the White house don't you???
you know the place where the President lives. But I'm sure in your Mind the President was aware of the target. that's why he was in Florida with the Smirk on his face Huh

Oh, I know that very well, but I think that's a mistake. I think the plane that hit the Pentagon was the one that was supposed to hit the White House, but the pilot couldn't see it through the tall trees, so he went for another target of opportunity. The one that crashed in Pennsylvania was probably headed towards the Capital. My guess.

and I'm sure you can back up those assumptions with some more of those facts you been producing. TC your sounding more like a 9/11 truth-er with each post. I hope you have a rope long enough to pull you out of that Pit your falling into.

tunnelcat wrote: He sat there like a deer in the road frozen by the headlights, nuff said. So I ask you this, why did this whole thing take place during the longest presidential vacation in history? Why did Jeb mobilize the Florida National Guard for his visit?

The question you should be asking yourself first, of course, is, did he?
Is this what you are talking about?
http://www.911myths.com/html/jeb_bush_d ... _law_.html

Finished reading? Didn't happen, now did it?

10 minutes is a very short time for things to happen, unless he already knew he wasn't in target range and could saunter out after the poop hit the fan.

Seriously TC, make yourself a nice pot of tea and spend a little time reading through the debunking of some of the 911 truther BS that you seem to be immersed in.
http://www.911myths.com/html/foreknowledge.html

I didn't say Jeb declared martial law. Your assuming I said that. I said he mobilized the National Guard. I didn't even post the Rense website because I know it's wacko. But there's still the question as to why Jeb did that much. And many of you claim I'm a tin hatter when some of you are ardent birthers. So who's wacko here?

No, I can't prove any of my "opinions" about Bush and 9/11. You're all too Objectivist for your own good. If one only relies on the facts as presented by any one person or persons, then one can only make judgements on those particular "facts" as presented, which we all know can be manipulated by those who want people to believe things a certain way. That's the trouble with instincts, they can only rely on small bits of information gleaned from here and there to form an opinion about something. But that's what makes a good detective. Someone who doesn't just rely on the surface facts, but digs deeper to look between the facts. You all need to quit looking at things in black and white and start looking for the rainbow of information that's in between.

.

1) LOL. Nice try wildly flinging some birther mud to see if any of it would stick to me. Good luck with that.

2) I assumed nothing. I asked you if the article I linked was what you were referring to, since you provided no reference of your own. What I linked quoted the text of Jeb Bush's Executive Order, noting that -

Section 2.

I hereby delegate to The Adjutant General of the State of Florida all necessary authority, within approved budgetary appropriations or grants, to order members of the Florida National Guard into active service, as defined by Section 250.27, Florida Statutes, for the purpose of training to support law-enforcement personnel and emergency-management personnel in the event of civil disturbances or natural disasters and to provide training support to law-enforcement personnel and community-based organizations relating to counter drug operations.

Section 3.

The Florida National Guard may order selected members on to state active duty for service to the State of Florida pursuant to Section 250.06(4), Florida Statutes, to assist FDLE in performing port security training and inspections. Based on the potential massive damage to life and property that may result from an act of terrorism at a Florida port, the necessity to protect life and property from such acts of terrorism, and inhibiting the smuggling of illegal drugs into the State of Florida, the use of the Florida National Guard to support FDLE in accomplishing port security training and inspections is "extraordinary support to law enforcement" as used in Section 250.06(4), Florida Statutes.

So, is the Bush Executive Order 01-261 the "mobilizing of the National Guard" that you were referring to, or is there some other relevent order? Cause the way I read this, there is no mobilization, just a granting of authority and a use of "selected members" for port security and training.

Great. So, if this isn't it, then show me "the rainbow".

You forgot to add that the order was signed 4 days before the attack on Sept 11th.

Heretic wrote:You forgot to add that the order was signed 4 days before the attack on Sept 11th.

Yeah, I take it this is part of the "Bush knew" conspiracy theory. Dubya "knew", so he "told" Jeb, the Guard was "called out", blah, blah, blah.

That's probably why they killed OBL so swift w/o trying to capture him -- so he can't talk. Brillant !

Actually I believe the going theory is that he's been dead 10 years already.

Sergeant Thorne wrote:Actually I believe the going theory is that he's been dead 10 years already.

I don't believe he's dead at all. I think they have him Captive and are torture....ERRRR waterboarding him for Information at Gitmo

I think that's the best theory I've heard so far.

I probably should have put a at the end of my "statement" I don't want people to think I believe some of the Far fetched stuff that's out there

CUDA wrote:I don't believe he's dead at all. I think they have him Captive and are torture....ERRRR waterboarding him for Information at Gitmo

no no no, it's not waterboarding.. it's 'using an alternative set of procedures'.

Even McCain thinks we've lost our soul as a nation and that enhanced interrogation was not what gave us the information. Bush's people are just bragging. Sick. I have a new found respect for Mr. McCain.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/05/ ... 2525.shtml

That man flips flops more than a fish out of water.

tunnelcat wrote:Even McCain thinks we've lost our soul as a nation and that enhanced interrogation was not what gave us the information. Bush's people are just bragging. Sick. I have a new found respect for Mr. McCain.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/05/ ... 2525.shtml

McCain is wrong according to the people who actually were there retrieving the information and wrong according to the Obama administration but reality aside it's your call to make.
You are free to believe him whenever it suits you...god knows he's built quite a career off of his ability to profit from the market place of political expediency...why should your sudden devotion to his opinion be hampered by the facts or any surprise to us?

I think you'll find his original comment was waterboard specific though which was a slick way to cover his maverick butt and for all we know Khalid Sheikh Mohammed and the other prisoner gave up Ossama's courier before they went bobbing for answers so McCain could be half right (ooh I made a punny).
What we do know is the secret prisons and the interrogations that you and Obama were against are what produced the positive results.

Have you asked McCain how the inventory of our collective soul stands after hunting bin Laden down and shooting him on sight without so much as a token attempt to capture him? Torture bad!...Murder good?...hhmmm....calling St. Pete....can we get a ruling on this please?!?

tunnelcat wrote:Bush's people are just bragging. Sick.

Just for you TC

Hatred is the air I breathe. It permeates every cell in my body.

Jim Goad

I guess the fact that the current Administration says that the Enhanced Interrogations provided useful information is totally irrelevant to your hatred of GW huh

A Rattlesnake, if Cornered will become so angry it will bite itself. That is exactly what the harboring of hate and resentment against others is - a biting of oneself. We think we are harming others in holding these spites and hates, but the deeper harm is to ourselves. ~E. Stanley Jones

The price of hating other human beings is loving oneself less. ~Eldridge Cleaver,

Heretic wrote:That man flips flops more than a fish out of water.

on this particular issue? Never. Absolutely never. And, IMHO, he is correct and further, probably knows what he is speaking of.