DescentBB

My grammar hurts...

Slick, you don't get to cite pre surge conditions (intensity and strength of al Queda in Iraq) as a force we would always face as if the surge had no role in dismantling them, including their inroads into the communities they tried to operate from! Plowing and planting the field takes a lot more work and expense that watering it and reaping a harvest.

I've listened to numerous military leaders lamenting the loss of all that hard work and sacrifice of life that Obama has tossed aside for political brownie points or due to stubborn refusal to hear what they told him.

If we had maintained a 'backbone' and intelligence/recon presence as well as material and training it would have enabled the Iraqi government to flesh itself out. Instead we staked them out for the wolves.
And the cost wasn't going to equal that which we paid to implement the surge! Stop trying to pass that off as factual.

Obama himself had proclaimed Iraq to be stable and a fledgling democracy of sorts. He was wrong. That announcement was going to be his to make once they had been tempered instead they folded like tin foil the month after he pulled their backbone out against all military expert advice including that from within his administration.

As to our assets in Europe. We have probably a couple trillion dollars of stuff and people sitting in places like Germany maintaining 1980's relevant anti-Soviet invasion contingencies ...tank aggression ...etc that is obsolete but the fat cats in the Pentagon and their fat cat counterparts in those places enjoy having the American expense account permanently wired into their economy.
But it isn't stopping Putin is it?

However if it was in Iraq it would have stopped ISIS from even thinking of adding that second I to their monogram....
And if Obama hadn't kicked Assad in the teeth and then rolled back on his heels mumbling never mind they would be the Islamic State of nothing at all.

CUDA wrote:Slick, it doesn't matter what you produce. some how Sigma will tie it to the US and call it a Lie

amazing!.... like Will, isn't he?

Will Robinson wrote:Slick, you don't get to cite pre surge conditions (intensity and strength of al Queda in Iraq) as a force we would always face as if the surge had no role in dismantling them, including their inroads into the communities they tried to operate from! Plowing and planting the field takes a lot more work and expense that watering it and reaping a harvest.

nonsense, the inherent strength lies in the support within the Sunni community. Which, without 120,000 people there, runs toward caliphate-formation.

I've listened to numerous military leaders lamenting the loss of all that hard work and sacrifice of life that Obama has tossed aside for political brownie points or due to stubborn refusal to hear what they told him.

as have I, although I've heard more prominent leaders say that the mission was a failure from the get-go and to repeat any aspect of it would be a national disaster.

If we had maintained a 'backbone' and intelligence/recon presence as well as material and training it would have enabled the Iraqi government to flesh itself out. Instead we staked them out for the wolves.
And the cost wasn't going to equal that which we paid to implement the surge! Stop trying to pass that off as factual.

there's your problem. That government, which we helped to put in place by eliminating all Sunnis from it, was going to radicalize the Sunni populace every day. Putting advisors in there would have made us look, if anything, MORE complicit to the Sunnis.

Obama himself had proclaimed Iraq to be stable and a fledgling democracy of sorts. He was wrong. That announcement was going to be his to make once they had been tempered instead they folded like tin foil the month after he pulled their backbone out against all military expert advice including that from within his administration.

that was wishful thinking, I'd admit, but all reports state a WIDE range of opinions about how to go forth. The 'pull them all out of that pit' voices won out.

As to our assets in Europe. We have probably a couple trillion dollars of stuff and people sitting in places like Germany maintaining 1980's relevant anti-Soviet invasion contingencies ...tank aggression ...etc that is obsolete but the fat cats in the Pentagon and their fat cat counterparts in those places enjoy having the American expense account permanently wired into their economy.
But it isn't stopping Putin is it?

it would, if needed. Luckily, we are led by someone not given to either saber-rattling or dick-waving with our young men. The economic sanctions will take care of the matter it seems. The ruble is at a scary low point on the overnight markets. That will be more effective and less costly(in terms of human life) of a deterrent than troops. We still need some presence so long as we are the backbone of NATO and have far more depending upon Europe than we do in the Iraq/Syrian region. Let the Muslim world settle their own affairs while we stay the hell out, for once.

However if it was in Iraq it would have stopped ISIS from even thinking of adding that second I to their monogram....
And if Obama hadn't kicked Assad in the teeth and then rolled back on his heels mumbling never mind they would be the Islamic State of nothing at all.

are you suggesting partnering with Assad? Or, suggesting we do as the GOP House wishes and start arming groups over there?....a plan that has shown to be SO effective in the past.

CUDA wrote:Revisionist history.
Disingenuous,
and a denial of facts on your part.

Bullsh*t! Here was Bush's "coalition" during the initial 2003 invasion. There were more Kurds than Brits and you'll notice that ISIS also went after the Kurds during their most recent offensive! Plus, the U.S. took more and more responsibility and visibility as this war dragged on for years.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2003_invasion_of_Iraq

United States - 148,000 troops

United Kingdom - 45,000 troops

Australia - 2000 troops

Peshmerga (Kurdish) - 70,000 troops

The rest were Iraqi forces. Guess who's equipment was most prominent during the fighting, the U.S. with it's tanks, Humvees, aircraft, etc. Guess which nation supplied most of the military equipment that everyone saw, the U.S. Guess which nation gets the blame for stirring up this whole hornets nest of unrest, the U.S. and Britain.

Will Robinson wrote:TC that's a sloppy little pirouette, all spin and no form, or are you a true believer of the 'ISIS is just a bunch of JV players' bullcrap? I think they are a good bit more sophisticated than your fairytale allows.

Oh, I don't doubt that ISIS is a very nasty, evil and strong force of terrorist maniacs. I think they should be wiped off the face of the earth forever. But make no mistake, WE are their targets because WE, and I mean the Bush/Cheney cabal, meddled in the affairs of an age old tribal fight and toppled the only wall holding back millennia of rage and infighting. WE and the UK opened Pandora's Box.

TC is exactly right. For a while here, I've caught massive blowback whenever I write that the US is going to pay heavily for Bush/Cheney for decades, but this is just the latest example. And, this sort of stuff is the kind of thing that NO U.S. administration can really make go away altogether. In fact, all we can hope for, and attempt to maintain via our elections, is leadership that grasps the point that the best course of action is that which creates the LEAST amount of ongoing recruitment, hatred and hostility towards us.

this approach borders on COMPLETE paranoia:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/pos ... e-at-home/

My thoughts? 15 years and the region is being lost and falling into anarchy. It's more unstable than 15 years ago and now ISIS, unlike al-Qaeda, has real military organization and financial backing and are operating right out in the open. Complete failure and lack of foresight or vision.

tunnelcat wrote:WE and the UK opened Pandora's Box.

Yea, but what else came out of Pandora’s Box?

Sure there is a lot of blame to lay at the feet of the American government…but WTF…those people are also passing up golden opportunities to join the modern world.

Blame only goes so far…before it has to be applied to the people in that region as well.

But people just seem to be using the EXCUSE…well…that’s just the way they are…BS.

Excuses maybe. But it was our Imperialism under Bush that pulled out that last stick of wood holding up the tower of tribal hatred. Now we're the target and Obama has to go all Imperialist all over again. What's sad is that we HAVE to get involved now to protect ourselves from a bunch of crazy well organized madmen with an axe to grind.

Lol! Excuses abound.

It is the republicans fault for Obama wanting to arm Syrian rebels. A plan that a week or two ago he said was a fantasy to think of. Now he wants to do it and its suddenly not his plan AND at the same time the Repubs are faulted for NOT going along with him (but he really doesn't want to do it)?!?

Too bad Obama isn't the President because then he could do it right huh?

Its Bush's fault that the Iraq Obama inherited, the Iraq that Obama told us was stable and a fledgling democracy, turned into a islamofacist-whacko nest right after Obama prematurely pulled out all the whacko deterrence from the region....against Bush's advice...and all Obama's military advisor's recommendations! Who would have guessed?

Did I forget any of them?

Lol!
No wonder the Democrats are so good at fixing things!
All they have to do is say the problem was caused by Repubs and no matter how much they did to make things worse they get insulated from any responsibility from their silly supporters!

So stop complaining! Things in Iraq are just fine and only getting better thanks to Obama!

Does anyone have any ideas how peaceful means any state can protect itself from the tyranny and arbitrariness of the United States?

sigma wrote:Does anyone have any ideas how peaceful means any state can protect itself from the tyranny and arbitrariness of the United States?

I thought I already answered that. In particular, any group / place / ...country... needs to avoid this (think of it as like a 'virus').

(Oh yeah, Al-Qaeda ISIS. /ontopic)

As I understand, we can not hear other opinions

sigma wrote:Does anyone have any ideas how peaceful means any state can protect itself from the tyranny and arbitrariness of the United States?

do you do that research slick challenged you to?

I didnt think so.

CUDA wrote:

sigma wrote:Does anyone have any ideas how peaceful means any state can protect itself from the tyranny and arbitrariness of the United States?

do you do that research slick challenged you to?

I didnt think so.

demagoguery

sigma wrote:

CUDA wrote:

sigma wrote:Does anyone have any ideas how peaceful means any state can protect itself from the tyranny and arbitrariness of the United States?

do you do that research slick challenged you to?

I didnt think so.

demagoguery

cowardice

You at least sometimes able to answer the question relating to, or your favorite entertainment is wrangling with the opponent?

stop being a



you're always talking ★■◆● about American, but when called out on your own country you cower under a rock. why? cant defend the indefensible? If Russia is as Lilly white in the world as you try to portray it, then you should have no problem finding an independent (Asian) article as Slick pointed out to back you your claims HUH???







and FYI all of those are American made so I'm sure you'll find some way to blame them for what's going on in the middle world

You're so brave, because you think that Americans are the untouchables? Believe me, it is not.
And by the way, how long are you going to squirm like a worm on a hook, not to answer the questions?

still wont do it huh?

well you just exhibit how worthless your opinion is on this forum.

sigma wrote:You're so brave, because you think that Americans are the untouchables? Believe me, it is not.
And by the way, how long are you going to squirm like a worm on a hook, not to answer the questions?

you're making an ass of yourself, now, Sigma.

sigma wrote:You're so brave, because you think that Americans are the untouchables? Believe me, it is not.
And by the way, how long are you going to squirm like a worm on a hook, not to answer the questions?

No one is going to answer your loaded questions.

Hmm...Apparently, these guys need to re-educate only with the belt on her bare ass, if they were so unfortunate that their parents could not provide them with a normal upbringing...

I made a simple, very easy to understand request. You have failed, and moreover, spent the ensuing time insulting a host of other people on here about how they won't answer your questions(all of which, by the way, we filled with built-in assumptions which aren't factual). You look to be a fool, and nothing more than a brainwashed minion of your nationalistic leader. How are those sanctions working out for you now, Sigma?

Why are you trying to do? I can crush you infinitely intelligent questions that you are not able to respond. You want it? I'll do it, if you continue to solicit me so importunately about this.

quit with the tough talk, you don't fool anyone. If you can find the references, do it. Until then, you simply look to be a simpleton.

I bet we can contact the Russian government and tell them descentbb.net is a US propaganda site and they will block it from Sigma. Haha.

HRM

Not bad, not bad at all.

Starting today, to get answers to their questions from me, these people have to send me a private message asking you to introduce them to my base to identify and provide a form of personal profiles.
After filling out the questionnaire, for a month, your request will be considered and will be judged worthy of you my answers or not.
The sanctions regime will apply until such time as the United States will not leave Ukraine and Iraq.
May also be introduced additional sanctions or penalties may be canceled at my discretion.
Now, in the list of sanctions includes:
1. CUDA
2. Spidey

SIR..... thou doth wound me.

Hey Sigma. Did you find that source yet??


Whoops thats right. I need to fill out the form.

you want that in triplicate?

sigma wrote:Starting today, to get answers to their questions from me, these people have to send me a private message asking you to introduce them to my base to identify and provide a form of personal profiles.
After filling out the questionnaire, for a month, your request will be considered and will be judged worthy of you my answers or not.
The sanctions regime will apply until such time as the United States will not leave Ukraine and Iraq.
May also be introduced additional sanctions or penalties may be canceled at my discretion.
Now, in the list of sanctions includes:
1. CUDA
2. Spidey

freaking hilarious!

CUDA wrote:Hey Sigma. Did you find that source yet??


Whoops thats right. I need to fill out the form.

you want that in triplicate?

Everything is OK. It was a joke.

So if Russia can't beat us militarily without total annihilation, they'll just buy us out like any evil capitalist would. At least that Russian company bought a cheap, crappy, piss water beer. Shows they have no taste. They'll probably take off that Rosie the Riveter logo on the cans though, because Russians don't think females can do a man's work.

http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2014/09/19/ ... e-company/

drink Yeungling. 'Nuff said.

Russians know nothing about good beer. They can have it.

well, it's a start.......credit where due, this is the FIRST US administration that I can remember that actually enlisted and received real military efforts from the Arab Muslim world in cleaning up the mess in their backyard. Now, if the actual boots on the ground part can be mainly limited to Muslim boots, we will have made a HUGE step forward in moving away from Great Satan status. Maybe not in the eyes of the lunatic fringe Islamists, but with the general populace.

callmeslick wrote:well, it's a start.......credit where due, this is the FIRST US administration that I can remember that actually enlisted and received real military efforts from the Arab Muslim world in cleaning up the mess in their backyard.

short memory