I do not mean to offend anyone, but I mod forums, and IRC etc..
I think you seem to have alot of freedom here.
1. It's not your/our forums, it's theirs. I don't see you/me paying for it.
2. This means they can do with it what they want.
In my IRC channel, I've banned entire countries from it's use, and or ISPs, etc... At those times the bans weren't just for minutes, hours whatever, we're talking years. You probably ask, what about the good people that obey the rules. My response: tough. Do I care about them? response: Not really. It wasn't until recently that I finally decided to script an eggdrop to handle all the special cases, so now I've lifted all the bans, and the eggdrop handles all violations, and it's doing quite well. Yes, this way only individuals are punished.
In my forum that I mod. If I feel like it, even on a whim I'll delete the post, close the thread, ban the user, or his ISP, or Country. Do I care? No. Why can I do this? Because it's my forum. Do I have to explain myself? No. Do you pay the bills? No. So why do you have any say?
Basically when it comes right down to it. If you're causing a disturbance, or breaking the rules, then it's your funeral. You seem to have alot more luck here then you would where I'm at.
Lastly, I'm not trying to be mean here, this is just my opinion, so just take it with a grain of salt.
P.S. I'm considered the nice OP/Mod where I'm at too.
Recent Thread Closings Are Pointless
Moderators: Tunnelcat, Jeff250
the only good moderator /administrator is one who rarely ever touches the admin /mod functions. the rest is just on a selfish powertrip, egomaniacs crying for attention.
ever thought about the meaning of the word moderator? a moderators god damn job is to keep a discussion civil, and keep out personal feelings. thats all, not more not less. i have seen so many mods on different boards, missusing the power to force discussions in a direction they like, or bashing on people they personal dislike, or even fakeedit other peoples text.
thats not the spirit of the internet, the advantage we have to build up opinions by discussing all kind of ideas, opinions, thoughts with people all over the world.
edit:
oh skynet: thats the most weird point of view i have ever read from a mod /admin lol. its your forum, your irc-channel? forums and irc are communication tools, what sense does it make if you suppress communication?
ever thought about the meaning of the word moderator? a moderators god damn job is to keep a discussion civil, and keep out personal feelings. thats all, not more not less. i have seen so many mods on different boards, missusing the power to force discussions in a direction they like, or bashing on people they personal dislike, or even fakeedit other peoples text.
thats not the spirit of the internet, the advantage we have to build up opinions by discussing all kind of ideas, opinions, thoughts with people all over the world.
edit:
oh skynet: thats the most weird point of view i have ever read from a mod /admin lol. its your forum, your irc-channel? forums and irc are communication tools, what sense does it make if you suppress communication?
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Flabby Chick
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No. the spirit of the internet is that nothing prevents you from starting your own website to transmit your views, it was never about people being obligated to transmit other people's views.DigiJo wrote:thats not the spirit of the internet, the advantage we have to build up opinions by discussing all kind of ideas, opinions, thoughts with people all over the world.
Ive finally sat down and read this thread in its entirety, so now I think I'd like to comment on a few things.
First, I think the general spirit of debate is being stifled in this forum. Two of the posts closed recently were closed, according to Lothar, because people on the left were dragging the topic into the mudslinging arena. Mudslinging is a natural part of politics and should be tolerated to a point. As I have said of Lothar in another thread, his moderating style is condusive to turning the E&C into something resembling congress, where discussion stays on track, on the same topic, with very few insults echanged. But like Congress, the content becomes very drab and unentertaining, and even uninformative as no one is inclined or allowed to light a fire under someones a** in order to remind them that they hate everything their opinion is based on. Everyone on both sides will end up hating the other side but will be so preoccupied with keeping the threads on track that the debate will become nongenuine to their opinion due to fear of moderateor reprisal. I think a good deal of that is evident by the fact that woodchip hasnt been starting his topics here lately, where I believe they belong, but instead he has been posting to the NHB. He knows damn well that people are going to call him some sort of name and he accepts that. He wants his topics open, tho, regardless of the quantity of insults thrwon his way, and I would have to say (for the second time this week...is armageddon about to begin?) that I would agree with woodchips unstated belief that the NHB is currently the place for his topics to be posted. Some of those topics will generate debate, some may not. The point is that heckle or no heckle, those topics are there both for us to elaborate on as well as for us to attack the people elaborating. Those topics are not open here for either discussion or character slaying, and I feel that that is an injustice.
Furthermore I dont think it is wrong if a post strays off topic for a while. Usually if that happens it will eventually find its way back on track. I cite the closed "Hi ho silver" thread as evidence. In it, the thread got off topic after Kufyit said hi to Vander. A mini-discussion proceeded to occur between several persons and was stifled by a moderator imposed lock within one hour of its beginning. If left unmoderated, or given verbal warning, I believe this topic would have proceeded to generate a good deal of decent discussion. Most people reading a topic can see friendly side-banter when they see it and know its not pertinent to the topic and thusly ignore it, or do you, Lothar, feel the need to nanny us and close all avenues for discussion once something moves off topic for as short a time period as one hour? A verbal "keep it on topic" or "take the hellows to PM or the Cafe" would have been many times more appropraite. Now, if this had happened over the course of several days without a return to topic in sight I would have agreed with the call, but one hour is certainly not enough time for such a call to be made.
Regarding the "Poser" thread, Lothar, you clearly showed right-wing bias in closing that thread simply by making that comment. You admit you were wrong to make that comment, but I would like to further elaborate on it. Everyone here knows you are a right wing conservative, so it goes without saying that since the right enjoys mocking Kerry's Vietnam service as a sham, a reasonable assumption is that your comment "it's funny that Kerry would record his vietnam service.." would naturally be followed by a comment such as "considering how proudly he displays his purple hearts". Additionally, because of that comment, it seemed like the reason you closed the thread was because you knew it couldnt keep on a pro-conservative stance after enduring the opening round of insults to both the thread author and the argument itself.
Sure, that thread was getting pretty dirty pretty fast, but woodchip hasnt even posted a reply to the insults directed at him, most likely because he couldnt, as the thrread was closed within 8 hours of its origination. Maybe if he had been given a chance to reply, that thread could have gone somewhere, or even generated a completely new discussion off of the original topic. Again, it was never given the chance because the trigger was pulled immediately. A better choice would have been a verbal warning such as "keep it clean" or something to that effect, or a warning to close the thread if it continued on its insult-ridden course.
For the time being, the true E&C seems to be the NHB, and I find that sad, considering that there is a forum for E&C, but several people are beginning to feel like they cant post here.
As I have said there, I feel that your performance as moderator has been poor lately and that the entertainment value is being sucked out of the E&C and being shunted to the NHB. I perfer a parlimentary style of debate, which is what is allowed in the NHB where heckling is accepted, as opposed to a congressional style you seem to be favoring.
I'd post some quotes from this thread and comment on a few of them, but for some reason the DBB is slower than Bush while answering unscripted questions right now.
To put it bluntly, Lothar, your Conservative style (not nessecarily political leaning) of moderating has a lot of people looking for a more liberal approach. May you find whatever wisdom you need to make well rounded judgement calls.
First, I think the general spirit of debate is being stifled in this forum. Two of the posts closed recently were closed, according to Lothar, because people on the left were dragging the topic into the mudslinging arena. Mudslinging is a natural part of politics and should be tolerated to a point. As I have said of Lothar in another thread, his moderating style is condusive to turning the E&C into something resembling congress, where discussion stays on track, on the same topic, with very few insults echanged. But like Congress, the content becomes very drab and unentertaining, and even uninformative as no one is inclined or allowed to light a fire under someones a** in order to remind them that they hate everything their opinion is based on. Everyone on both sides will end up hating the other side but will be so preoccupied with keeping the threads on track that the debate will become nongenuine to their opinion due to fear of moderateor reprisal. I think a good deal of that is evident by the fact that woodchip hasnt been starting his topics here lately, where I believe they belong, but instead he has been posting to the NHB. He knows damn well that people are going to call him some sort of name and he accepts that. He wants his topics open, tho, regardless of the quantity of insults thrwon his way, and I would have to say (for the second time this week...is armageddon about to begin?) that I would agree with woodchips unstated belief that the NHB is currently the place for his topics to be posted. Some of those topics will generate debate, some may not. The point is that heckle or no heckle, those topics are there both for us to elaborate on as well as for us to attack the people elaborating. Those topics are not open here for either discussion or character slaying, and I feel that that is an injustice.
Furthermore I dont think it is wrong if a post strays off topic for a while. Usually if that happens it will eventually find its way back on track. I cite the closed "Hi ho silver" thread as evidence. In it, the thread got off topic after Kufyit said hi to Vander. A mini-discussion proceeded to occur between several persons and was stifled by a moderator imposed lock within one hour of its beginning. If left unmoderated, or given verbal warning, I believe this topic would have proceeded to generate a good deal of decent discussion. Most people reading a topic can see friendly side-banter when they see it and know its not pertinent to the topic and thusly ignore it, or do you, Lothar, feel the need to nanny us and close all avenues for discussion once something moves off topic for as short a time period as one hour? A verbal "keep it on topic" or "take the hellows to PM or the Cafe" would have been many times more appropraite. Now, if this had happened over the course of several days without a return to topic in sight I would have agreed with the call, but one hour is certainly not enough time for such a call to be made.
Regarding the "Poser" thread, Lothar, you clearly showed right-wing bias in closing that thread simply by making that comment. You admit you were wrong to make that comment, but I would like to further elaborate on it. Everyone here knows you are a right wing conservative, so it goes without saying that since the right enjoys mocking Kerry's Vietnam service as a sham, a reasonable assumption is that your comment "it's funny that Kerry would record his vietnam service.." would naturally be followed by a comment such as "considering how proudly he displays his purple hearts". Additionally, because of that comment, it seemed like the reason you closed the thread was because you knew it couldnt keep on a pro-conservative stance after enduring the opening round of insults to both the thread author and the argument itself.
Sure, that thread was getting pretty dirty pretty fast, but woodchip hasnt even posted a reply to the insults directed at him, most likely because he couldnt, as the thrread was closed within 8 hours of its origination. Maybe if he had been given a chance to reply, that thread could have gone somewhere, or even generated a completely new discussion off of the original topic. Again, it was never given the chance because the trigger was pulled immediately. A better choice would have been a verbal warning such as "keep it clean" or something to that effect, or a warning to close the thread if it continued on its insult-ridden course.
For the time being, the true E&C seems to be the NHB, and I find that sad, considering that there is a forum for E&C, but several people are beginning to feel like they cant post here.
As I have said there, I feel that your performance as moderator has been poor lately and that the entertainment value is being sucked out of the E&C and being shunted to the NHB. I perfer a parlimentary style of debate, which is what is allowed in the NHB where heckling is accepted, as opposed to a congressional style you seem to be favoring.
I'd post some quotes from this thread and comment on a few of them, but for some reason the DBB is slower than Bush while answering unscripted questions right now.
To put it bluntly, Lothar, your Conservative style (not nessecarily political leaning) of moderating has a lot of people looking for a more liberal approach. May you find whatever wisdom you need to make well rounded judgement calls.
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SkyNet
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DigiJo,
Unlike here, where I'm at I don't get people for going off topic, but then my forums are not about political stuff, and if they are, then they are to goto the Rants & Flames section. That's a section that isn't really moderated because it's there to vent anger.
However the rest of the board can and will get your post locked, moved, deleted, and your user banned if you don't follow the ... and let me make this bold rules for signing up if you can't even do that, then why'd you sign up?
On IRC I am not nearly as friendly. If you even so much as break a rule that my BOT can't handle then I'm forced to get involved, and I really hate getting involved, so I end up banning these people for excessive amounts of time.
Our most broken rule is in the topic, so when they join the channel it's the first thing they see, and they still break it. Also when most people join they never read the !rules, then they break one. Ignorance gets you no where fast.
But I'm just talking about myself here, and getting semi-off topic, sorry. My point of view on the matter at hand is that Lothar is the moderator so let him mod.
Here's the main section in the rules of this board:
"You agree not to post any abusive, obscene, vulgar, slanderous, hateful, threatening, sexually-oriented or any other material that may violate any applicable laws. Doing so may lead to you being immediately and permanently banned (and your service provider being informed). The IP address of all posts is recorded to aid in enforcing these conditions. You agree that the webmaster, administrator and moderators of this forum have the right to remove, edit, move or close any topic at any time should they see fit. As a user you agree to any information you have entered above being stored in a database. While this information will not be disclosed to any third party without your consent the webmaster, administrator and moderators cannot be held responsible for any hacking attempt that may lead to the data being compromised."
Now isn't Slander against the law? Although I think it's called something different when in written form. So all this name calling is against the law correct?
P.S. DigiJo I'm not attacking you, so don't take it that way. This is just political crap. I've played you in the mines already, and know you're a good guy, we just have a different opinion here. Sorry for the long post.
Unlike here, where I'm at I don't get people for going off topic, but then my forums are not about political stuff, and if they are, then they are to goto the Rants & Flames section. That's a section that isn't really moderated because it's there to vent anger.
However the rest of the board can and will get your post locked, moved, deleted, and your user banned if you don't follow the ... and let me make this bold rules for signing up if you can't even do that, then why'd you sign up?
On IRC I am not nearly as friendly. If you even so much as break a rule that my BOT can't handle then I'm forced to get involved, and I really hate getting involved, so I end up banning these people for excessive amounts of time.
Our most broken rule is in the topic, so when they join the channel it's the first thing they see, and they still break it. Also when most people join they never read the !rules, then they break one. Ignorance gets you no where fast.
But I'm just talking about myself here, and getting semi-off topic, sorry. My point of view on the matter at hand is that Lothar is the moderator so let him mod.
Here's the main section in the rules of this board:
"You agree not to post any abusive, obscene, vulgar, slanderous, hateful, threatening, sexually-oriented or any other material that may violate any applicable laws. Doing so may lead to you being immediately and permanently banned (and your service provider being informed). The IP address of all posts is recorded to aid in enforcing these conditions. You agree that the webmaster, administrator and moderators of this forum have the right to remove, edit, move or close any topic at any time should they see fit. As a user you agree to any information you have entered above being stored in a database. While this information will not be disclosed to any third party without your consent the webmaster, administrator and moderators cannot be held responsible for any hacking attempt that may lead to the data being compromised."
Now isn't Slander against the law? Although I think it's called something different when in written form. So all this name calling is against the law correct?
P.S. DigiJo I'm not attacking you, so don't take it that way. This is just political crap. I've played you in the mines already, and know you're a good guy, we just have a different opinion here. Sorry for the long post.
I think the modus vivendi here would be what xciter agreed with--to give threads a little bit more time to breath and perhaps wander back on topic, and give a warning. If the warning isn't headed after some time to correct, then close. But closing without a warning really is generating a lot of contreversy.
