DescentBB

I was told that the D1 final boss spawns robots after teleporting.

#1 Is that correct?

#2 If so, which robot types?

How does the level 7 boss originally act regarding spawning robots?

He doesn't, but there are mid-air invisible spawnpoints from which all the bots, except the Fusion bots, spawn.

Level 7 boss doesn't spawn bots, there are just a bunch in there to start.

There are also spawn points in the energy centers, and right outside the exit hatch. (D1, final boss)

Oh yea, them as well.

Aren't there also spawnpoints in the small openings between the 4 sections of the room? I don't recall.

You are wrong, guys. There's not a single matcen in the final D1 level. I checked it with DLE-XP (and checked that DLE-XP does display matcens in D1 levels). Looks like the final D1 boss does spawn robots.

I remember quite well having to fight off dozens of other bots at the same time as I was taking on the final boss. They spawn as you are in the room fighting, even though no matcens show in automap or anywhere else. I believe it was specially scripted in the level to behave like that, because the matcens made any robot and never quit.

Diedel wrote:You are wrong, guys. There's not a single matcen in the final D1 level. I checked it with DLE-XP (and checked that DLE-XP does display matcens in D1 levels). Looks like the final D1 boss does spawn robots.

In level 7 there is 2 metcens.

i the final level (pluto) I think there is one top dead center in the chamber. Under the exit tunnel. I've seen bots spawn in there.

Duper,

I was only talking about D1 level 27. There are no matcens in D1 level 27.

I believe the final D1 boss spawns the robots. reetus, who has been building some D1 levels recently, told me that they seem to get spawned when the boss teleports.

After checking it out further in D1,
- Robots of many types spawn practically anywhere in the room; they never seem to be behind a door though
- They are spawned at any time, not just when the boss teleports

Well, I see I have to check the D1 source for this.

Testiculese wrote:Oh yea, them as well.

Aren't there also spawnpoints in the small openings between the 4 sections of the room? I don't recall.

Those are the energy centers that I was referring to.

Robots do seem to spawn from those locations a lot, but definitely not exclusively.

From what I know from the D2 bot spawn code, they may spawn close to these segments, but not from them. Could be D1 handles this differently for the final boss though. I didn't have time to look into the D1 code yet - had to integrate deuxsonic's fabulous rendered Descent 1 movies.

D1 movies? Where?

This is the thread.
They're not for d/l right now.

Diedel wrote:Duper,

I was only talking about D1 level 27. There are no matcens in D1 level 27.

Sorry, Diedel. Just because you didn't see any Robot Generators (I like that name much better) doesn't mean they aren't there. I've created a couple of levels with DMB2 a while back with Generators in them, but they didn't have the texture. Unfortunately, I can't confirm if it's either Generators or spawning. All I know is that THEY DO SHOW UP in the room out of nowhere. My personal opinion, they made that room way too damn small.

Testiculese wrote:D1 movies? Where?

Testicules, chances are he might talking about the PlayStation version of Descent. That version had FMV sequencing much similar to D2. If he managed to rip them and talking about putting them in the PC version, then that's way over my head.

StormGTX1 wrote:

Testiculese wrote:D1 movies? Where?

Testicules, chances are he might talking about the PlayStation version of Descent. That version had FMV sequencing much similar to D2. If he managed to rip them and talking about putting them in the PC version, then that's way over my head.

The Descent1 PS movies are here.
You'll need Descent1 & Descent2 installed into same dir. Plus D2X-XL with the movies switch enabled to watch them while playing Descent1.

The movies have been available in DivX format for a while here as well:
viewtopic.php?t=6610

I converted 8 or so levels from the Vertigo Missions for D2 to the Descent 1 format a long while back. I used Vertigo level 20 for the final level in that small D1 conversion set and used Boss number 2 for the final red door area. There were NO matcen cubes placed there, NOR did I do anything else OTHER than place Boss 2 in a cube behind the red door. It seems the Boss 2 itself has scripting that spawns robots throughout the room. I checked to see if it could spawn robots once I left the red door area, but strangely enough, this spawning feature is contained within rooms and does not pass through doors. This was evident when I spotted a robot materialize just past the red door, but not on my side when I was looking 'into' the boss room. Boss 2 itself is the key. When taken out, bots do not spawn randomly in that room.

StormGTX1 wrote:Sorry, Diedel. Just because you didn't see any Robot Generators (I like that name much better) doesn't mean they aren't there. I've created a couple of levels with DMB2 a while back with Generators in them, but they didn't have the texture.

Do you think you can teach the DLE-XP maintainer about how to detect matcens?

If I say the level doesn't contain matcens, then it doesn't contain matcens. (FYI: matcen = Materializaton Center).

You don't need to see a special texture to determine whether there are matcens or not: DMB2 and DLE-XP display matcens in a special color in wireframe mode.

Dude, never again say "Sorry Diedel, just because you didn't ...".

And Descent itself too, don't forget. Matcens show up as purple
areas on the automap just like player spawn points.

Which is why it's impossible to have a robot spawning from a Matcen in a cube shared by an Energy Center. Boss 2 must have special code for spawning robots. It's not too surprising, is it? I'm pretty sure the D2 bosses spawned helper robots.

One thing I've wondered is how the bosses pick teleportation points. For example, how is Boss 1 confined to the cylindrical room? How does Boss 2 only appear in those four quadrants? At first I thought the engine did a raytrace through the cubes to see if the robot could travel (and fit) through a corridor, but that can't be the case with Boss 2.

BTW: It's Matcen. The terminology carries through D1, D2, D3, and even Alter Echo.

Kyouryuu wrote:One thing I've wondered is how the bosses pick teleportation points. For example, how is Boss 1 confined to the cylindrical room? How does Boss 2 only appear in those four quadrants?

It's hardcoded. I'm almost 100% sure of it, but I really don't feel like grabbing the source and checking.

Diedel wrote:

StormGTX1 wrote:Sorry, Diedel. Just because you didn't see any Robot Generators (I like that name much better) doesn't mean they aren't there. I've created a couple of levels with DMB2 a while back with Generators in them, but they didn't have the texture.

Do you think you can teach the DLE-XP maintainer about how to detect matcens?

If I say the level doesn't contain matcens, then it doesn't contain matcens. (FYI: matcen = Materializaton Center).

You don't need to see a special texture to determine whether there are matcens or not: DMB2 and DLE-XP display matcens in a special color in wireframe mode.

Dude, never again say "Sorry Diedel, just because you didn't ...".

Hey, relax pal. I don't know that much about Descent anymore, alright? I'm currently working on fixing that problem right now.

From the code:

main/ai2.c wrote:// Boss is allowed to teleport to segments he fits in (calls object_intersects_wall) and
// he can reach from his initial position (calls FindConnectedDistance).

So after the level has been loaded, D2 starts to wander from the boss' initial segment to all adjacent segments, and in turn to their adjacent segments, and so on, checking each segment whether the boss could reach it with a normal flight (not teleport) and would fit into it. Search stops at segments too small and at doors.

With D2X-XL you can confine a boss to a smaller area by giving his start segments and all segments he's allowed to move to the same 'room id'.