DescentBB

Posted: **Sat May 20, 2006 2:55 am**

ideas are something that can come after long & hard thinking, or they can come in a flash. I had one of the later ones.
one which has grown to be ready for manufacturing.
all the cards have dropped in place, in the right order, at the right time.
it has been shown to 'worksafe' [a govt. safety office] & the TAFE [tertiary level trade school]
it is out under-going industry testing & evaluation now, with it looking good from what the engineer has told me

http://gryptor.com/

check out the video.

cheers
rij

Posted: **Sat May 20, 2006 7:28 am**

Looks really cool! Good luck with it

Posted: **Sat May 20, 2006 8:33 am**

Nice work rijjy!

Looks like ideas are popping everywhere. I myself am going into manufacturing water sculptures and am also in the manufacturing stage.

Look forward to seeing you on the flip side.

Posted: **Sat May 20, 2006 9:40 am**

Nice rij.

Posted: **Sat May 20, 2006 12:03 pm**

Way to go Rij!
Good luck on the rest of the process.
Keep us updated.

Posted: **Thu May 25, 2006 4:40 am**

k ppl, time for an update.
so far I now have an AVI up as well as the RM clip,
with another one coming up in the next few days where we get to break some glass.
The Govt agency 'Worksafe' has expressed enough interest to enter me in their
'Innovation awards' as a late entrant, yeeha!!, & Im in the que for 'the new inventors' tv show.
Never know do ya?
Im well underway im making duplicate moulds to enable me to make a limited production run straight away.
Not a really large expenditure to take it this next step, & warranted as needed to be able to
supply more for testing, if nothing else. Plus Iv started to make the first stages of other lines, ie: long lengths,
different sizes etc. Busy as a dog with 2 tails atm & liking it more than welding stainless or alloy.
Thx for the support ppl, appreciate it!!
I`ll keep u posted as to how its going.
cheers
rij

Posted: **Thu May 25, 2006 6:15 am**

Looks pretty good. Should be standard packing procedure, though. You can probably make a bit off of it, but it seems to be the type of thing that is 1) Easily imitatable, so people will try to come up with their own solutions. 2) Low profit per item, so you will have to sell it in bulk to make any money.

Posted: **Thu May 25, 2006 8:04 am**

No intention to kill the party or anything, but isn't that just common sense? Even when you buy standard picture frames you get packaging like that. There are even table napkin locks that work that way.

Posted: **Sat Aug 18, 2007 6:10 am**

EPIC BUMP

Rijruna can't remember his login or something.
asked to post on his behalf:

RIJRUNA or maybe RIJRUNA1 wrote:Gday again ppl,
After being absent from updating progress for a bit, I figured it was time for one.

I`v made the break-through.
In the process of small to whatever scale manufacturing using alloy casting methods which I had set my sights on was proving cumbersome to say the least. The high pay job with the sign company finished so I was 'in-between jobs' for about 4 months, maybe a bit more. I had all my bills squared away with bux in the bank. So, out to the shed!!
casting, casting aaah stuff this!!! Has to be a better way./me scratches head for a bit, LIGHTS COME ON!!
Vaccuum formed outers with alloy centers, sooo much less of the casting sh*t with none of this polishing to get a finish,,, in fact having a rough interior actually is an advantage!! HHHMMMM Vacuum pump needed! HHmm got one of them, /me goes back out the shed & finds the scientific lab vac pump he bought at a trash & treasure for $30, hhmmm not enuf flow. aahh excellent,,, take exhaust of compressor off & use manifold for intake side [compressor bought same T/T market 12 mths before vac pump for $20] hook up to forming tray [bay-marie s/s, layered thin particle board which i just had laying around bonded with `glass & resin to seal] Excellent result..1/2 sheet of 1/8 thermo-plastic for $20 & my LPG burner set from my forge/furnace turned right down & YES!!!!! it works!!!
k, time for a time keeping thing
To make sand-cast alloy, finished moulds takes these steps & rough times
Sift emough of your sand to make fine enough to wet properly through [no lumps at all which will be a dry spot which when mould is dry drop out as its not been part of a homogenous mass] then wet it to the right amount & too dry isnt good nor is too wet for various reasons. Make the mould & hopefully you can get it out intact ready to dry out.
Upto 7-8 days later it 'might' be dry enough to cast into unless u bake it & run the risk of it bubbling beneath the surface creating a weak spot allowing alloy to penetrate meaning even more clean-up needed.
Fire up the crucible furnace & melt alloy, & hopefully you can achieve a good cast or 2. Very dangerous & bloody hot. I amlost lost an eye twice if it wasnt for fast reflexes once & a good face sheild the next.
Let them cool down & hope you have something that isnt riddled with holes or lumps. proceed to clean up with power tools,, very time consuming,, maybe 3-4 days each 1/2 shell to match each side perfectly to its other 1/2. Then drill securing holes & tap with end plates. To make one copy in rubber involves bolting it all together, sealing the edges with hot-melt glue then pour rubber.
Compare that to cut sheet of plastic to size hhhmmm 3-4 mins,, set into vac table & fire up heat then get plastic moving then fire up the compressor for a minute & let it cool down. Maybe 5 mins to clean up with a sharp knife,,, total time maybe 15 mins.
No contest at all,,.
Presise versions each & every time
The only thing to cast out of alloy is the centers & thats an easy one which takes so much less alloy with very little to do for a workable productive part. Maybe apart from the sand stuff,, coupla hrs each

& now the best bit........

I`v been in talks with a fella who can possibly get finance for me to take the step-up to major size. Iv told him that all options are on the table from a percentage for seed money to get it underway up to & including out-right purchase. He usually charges a fee starting from $3-600 & rising from there depending on the sums involved for what he does but he thinks its such a good idea he hasnt even talked about fee`s etc yet promising I`d say
I get the bux & off goes a sample center to someone I know who can make many ofem for me easier than I can & a stack faster for the numbers too. The plastic I can do it myself & the rubber & stuff I can do but if someone buys it outright then WOOOHHOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
1/2 goes to the fella who gave me the idea in the first place because without his bitching about delays & troubles with glass they were having on a job-site he was working on then this wouldnt have been possible. Would never have even been on my radar therefore he deserves it end of story for that bit of it

I find out in a week or 2 what is going to happen so here goes ppl
A dream is a realisable & achievable thing given the right circumstances {& equipment & the determination & at time physically destructive to ones self with at times bills being sooo red it they glowed] But alls well that ends well,,, & it might be the start of many days & late nights of pouring rubber & shipping it,,, heres hoping eh?
cheers from aussie
rij

Posted: **Sat Aug 18, 2007 6:27 am**

Tricord wrote:No intention to kill the party or anything, but isn't that just common sense? Even when you buy standard picture frames you get packaging like that. There are even table napkin locks that work that way.

True, but that doesn't matter when it comes to bringing such a product to market. These things would never be sold retail - they were always meant for a B2B (business to business) market. If there is unmet demand and if they are the first to register a patent on the design / manufacturing process - then common sense or not, it could be a very lucrative idea.

There's LOTS of work though to be done between having an idea and being able to protect it via a patent. However, the footage of that bloke BOUNCING a sheet of glass suggests that it has a future in industrial / homebuilding / glazing appliactions.

Best of luck with it Rij.

By the way - why don't you just manufacture it in straight lengths of say 3 metres long, then cut those straight lengths with a mitre box and stanley knive at 45 degrees ...then use the 2 x 45 degree angles created to construct your corners - with elastic shock cord / Glue / staples to hold the two pieces together? That way you don't have to worry about pouring the rubber into two separate forms ...and you could also accommodate angles of greater than 90 degrees. Glaziers could just cut it to the length they need and buy it by the metre.

They could then also use short lengths of it to wrap around the edges of a ROUND piece of glass if necessary!!

Make the stuff double sided and it can be used to protect two sheets of glass that were stored vertically next to one another too.

If you use this ideas, you have to pay me 10% of roaylties by the way. ...and I'm serious about that. I make my living through the quality of my ideas - and he who steals my ideas, steals my money!

...not!

Posted: **Sun Aug 19, 2007 5:21 am**

first off thx to roidy for sorting out stuff.
gekko, given the radius of round panes of glass that would need protections the standard straight pieces will do what ur suggesting about radial coverage. the other? well think about it a bit more... no-one would stack glass like that unless its firmly embeded into its wall frame. As for the 'cut & shut' thing,, no matter how u staple, bind, glue or try to stop the cut from seperating again wont work.. Iv worked in industry for 30--35yrs & have yet to see any such glue or binding method that would take the strain imposed without leaving a way for splits to occur. hard to do,, very hard
& as to stacking sections... been involved in some sneak-peaking in my shed have u?//[j/k] got prototypes of 4 deep sitting in my shed as of 6 weeks or so ago & i can already make em 2.4M long if so desired so 3M isnt too much to do. sorry fella but ur soooo outa luck here.
& btw that fella bouncing the glass is me
cheers from aussie
rij

Posted: **Sun Aug 19, 2007 11:04 am**

Looks like you've made significant progress rij. Have you considered having the thing injection molded by a a professional company? Looking at your invention, it strikes me that it could probably be done. Your idea has some undercuts, but that can be handled by pulls.

It would cost probably several thousand dollars for the mold, but you'd be able to buy them in the thousands for a very low price, plus it would free you from actually making them, so yuo'd have more time for marketing and selling them.

I have an injection molder for my decorative lamps, and I'd be willing to talk with him about this and possibly, with your approval, send him some sketches or plans and see what it would entail.

Shoot me an email if your interested...

Posted: **Sun Aug 19, 2007 9:49 pm**

rijruna1 wrote:Iv worked in industry for 30--35yrs & have yet to see any such glue or binding method that would take the strain imposed without leaving a way for splits to occur. hard to do... sorry fella but ur soooo outa luck here.
& btw that fella bouncing the glass is me
cheers from aussie
rij

yeah, that's what occurred to me just before I posted...but it might have worked so I thought I'd suggest it anyway.

Good luck with it all the same!!

Posted: **Mon Aug 20, 2007 5:55 am**

gday sheepy. long time no chat fella..
& the answer to your injection moulding idea is simple, the chem company i developed my compound with has also got the compound ready for injection mouldings as well. & as to the machines themselves,,, i can get one here for a coupla grand but its the number of machines that u would need to be able to compete with hundreds of clamshells & centers in rotation that we are talking about so far. for just the price of the machine without dies i can produce 3-400 sets maybe more, unless i actually breakem then until there is a major world-wide need for thousands thats the way its looking like it will have to go with the thermoformed. but i do like ur thinking

& should it get to a stage it needs many facilities to supply the markets needs then it certainly wont be going to china. quality assurance is a needed thing & sorry they dont cut it
i`l drop u a line ina coupla days, its late & i got a new job who are happy the way i step into a job im not trained for & do quite well at. i need my slepp but
cheers from aussie
rij

Posted: **Mon Aug 20, 2007 3:19 pm**

congrats rij. sounds great

Posted: **Wed Aug 22, 2007 4:37 am**

Gday all, some very interesting news,,, as stated in an earlier post that I was in talks with a fella about money
Got an email tonite about it,, again with him stating his waiving of fees usually charged.
Keep in mind these ppl usually start charging 15% plus upfront $$ to get going, he is willing to waive all bar 2.5% residual.
With a world-wide market available for this then he will get fairly rich from his 2.5% if it goes as well as I would like. but on the other-hand remember the phrase 'if it`s too good to be true'? well,,, this may just prove to be the exception.
Damn but I thought I was close to bouncing offa my walls the other day but then compared to now I was stationary..
Looks like I will be able to do something that could change the way ppl work around glass & other edged objects all over the world & damn but this grin I got wont go away!!! enough for now
cheers from aussie
rij

Posted: **Fri Aug 31, 2007 5:22 am**

gday again ppl,, yep another update on things..
I`v always held the belief in this thing of mine that I would get it out there one way or the other, while I have the prospects of getting major finance for it, it would be put out on the market one way or the other. So,, I`m an impatient bastid at the best of times so I fired off an email to the lady who owns the place I live in [who is also a bank-manager with the bank I`m with, I knew her for years before I started renting from her] to let her know about paying the 4&1/2 months back rent,, no sweat from her at all to this point in time, simply excellence in renting situations.. I also asked as to what sorta bux I could get as an unsecured bank-loan. 50k no probs.. My Mum said that she could kick in another 30-40k if I wanted or needed but not for about 3-4 months [investments situation].. It all adds up to me being able, if I wish, to get going very very soon. I will farm out the stuff which takes me ages to get one of now but only now I will get 100 of each center made & a sh!tload of thermo-plastic. spend all my 'spare' time in making clamshells from it.
Thats the scenario from a loan of 20k.... Now with me maxing out my loans & my Mums money on top.
I still make them under my mates house but with injection mould machines pumping out 2 a minute or 4 or 10. & with 1/2 dozen machines going then u do the math, very much a pinky & the brain quote ' what are we going to do tonite brain? same thing as we do everynite pinky take over the world!!! '
& then theres the venture captial route,, say $5million would have it on every continent in a store near you soon via manufacturors in each country that wanted to buy a licence..

Its just a matter of scale is all

Now you know what has been keeping me sleepless at nite & with 2 or 3 cats in my guts fighting their way out.
Now ppl,, rather than just read this how about giving me some feed-back as to your thoughts about this.. I do really appreciate your encourgement more than you realise & I gota say my posts have been a little too focused to thank you for the ones who have,,, the only people in the world about to be swamped by this are those who read the Descent BB`s of both flavours & they are going to be the first to be offered the first production samples or the first external of me manufacturing rights..
You could call me a d3 tragic, but I only ever bought a computer to play the d3 demo [I`d played d1 on a mates machine & he left town before d2 which I missed totally] without realising that it was going to be a major part of my life for the last few yrs & I must say that the people involved in the D series that Iv known with a very few exceptions have been excellent to know,, & Iv only ever met a small few in person & talked to a few more via skype & similar programs..The majority of my adress book for emails are d3 people, so, what can I say? Sure everyone has their 'persona' that they like to portray online but after all this time & with a memory like I have then I have a reasonable feel for the people. All the things I couldv done with my time could very well have been all to waste except for the people I`v come to know,, their foibles, their love lives or lack there-of,,, its all there . births, deaths, marriages, troubles with the bottle, the lack of the right sorta drugs or too much of the good ones which lead to a misserable time lead to an understanding that is quite large in scope of the people involved. There arent many that can say that d3 is the only thing that keeps you online at all but I`m one & its kinda like if all the dbb`s & chat dropped off forever then I would have no reason to have a bill for an ISP.. If I needed to email then I`d go next door or go down the local netcafe but I dont. If you have got to this point then I wont need to say more about that. But for me,, the people from the D series that I have known for ages will be the ones to get first bite at the cherry & unless the johnny come latelies come up with the licence fees first then the commercial world is next
Digest & please let me know what you think about my ramblings as I have some very major desicions coming up & I would like your opinions,, but remember this,, no matter what you say it will go ahead as I have laid out,, I`m focused, determined & almost financed..
cheers from aussieland
rij

Posted: **Fri Aug 31, 2007 5:56 am**

I can only hope and wish you the best in this venture rij.
You've worked long and hard on this project and you deserve every bit of the rewards that come to you from it.
So best of luck to ya mate!

rijruna1 wrote:.... I must say that the people involved in the D series that Iv known with a very few exceptions have been excellent to know,, & Iv only ever met a small few in person & talked to a few more via skype & similar programs..

Yeah, speaking of meeting people in person....
I would have come to that LAN if I had known about that!

So when is the next time aye?

Posted: **Fri Aug 31, 2007 6:46 am**

That's awesome news rij! You know we lurb ya too!

I hope all your dreams come true and I can't think of a person who deserves it more.

See ya on the flip side!

Posted: **Fri Aug 31, 2007 9:39 am**

Best of luck with it Rij - just remember, if you can't protect what you're doing: with a patent, a licence fee, non disclosure agreement, fixed term purchasing contracts etc, then you could find yourself with a whole bunch of competitors very quickly... and going broke even quicker.

Two true stories for you: the guys at Kanbrook who invented the powerboard (four+ power-points on one board) didn't patent it - as a result, anyone in the world with the means can (and does) manufacture them. Secondly, the swiss watch firm that invented the digital watch in the late 1970s thought so little of their product they didn't patent it. Texas Instruments and Casio both saw it at a trade show - and then proceeded to put over 100,000 people out of work across Switzerland with cheap digital watches. The swiss watch industry has never fully recovered.

I truly wish you well Rij, but if you're going to risk thousands, then protect yourself too. You've already published certain details about your manufacturing process on this website, ...don't give out any more info until it's all protected mate. Many people have lost everything doing what you're about to do ...many others have also gotten rich doing what you're about to do as well. Do it smart and you'll be fine no doubt.

That being said, I think it's a fantastic idea and hope it all pans out.

Posted: **Mon Sep 03, 2007 5:01 am**

gday again fellas, just a small catch-up..
gekko,, all`s good in the protection side of things, its been patented & I`v got a good patent man to look after my interests so the only thing thats really stopping me is funding & that looks like its on its way. ':D'
as to risking thousands well fella I`v already put close to 12g into it & foregoing wages of upto $65/hr for months on end so a touch more isnt such a leap of faith as I wouldnt have put so much into something I didnt think would take off from a backshed idea into the workplace as a safety item. its one thing to make something just to see how easy it was to come up with an answer to a problem [do that all the time] but this was something else entirely. I`d been fooling around with the rubber for a bit doing small things with it, fixing leaking valves of fuel tanks for a tourist boat, coating handles of hammers for a real good grip that couldnt move or slip on the shaft,, things like when my mate came up with this problem. which i`v duly solved in a way that is quite satisfying. & somehow other ppl think I`m too smart for my own good at times ':P'

gekko, dunno about when the next aussie-lan is going to happen but we will let u know where/when it happens.
thx again fellas for ur thoughts
cheers
rij

Posted: **Mon Sep 03, 2007 5:09 am**

Aus-RED-5 wrote:Yeah, speaking of meeting people in person....
I would have come to that LAN if I had known about that!

So when is the next time aye?

rijruna1 wrote:gekko, dunno about when the next aussie-lan is going to happen but we will let u know where/when it happens.
thx again fellas for ur thoughts
cheers
rij

Gekko?

Posted: **Mon Sep 03, 2007 5:54 am**

ooops sorry red my bad or was it just my hope that both of u will get to it? heres hoping :}
cheers
rij

Posted: **Wed Sep 05, 2007 11:28 pm**

lol ...sounds good guys - count me in. I've got this can of \"butt-kick\" that's been sitting in my pantry for ages ...I'd like to open it before it goes off

BTW - glad to hear you've done it the right way Rij - should be a nice little earner for you!

Posted: **Mon Sep 17, 2007 6:40 am**

update number? who cares?
after a lot of hard thought about the matter, i finally decided that the 'with or without outside funding' thing from investors,, that the way to go was to do a smaller funding of my own.....[more potentail profits for me but it`l take less risk of being 'sharked' while taking slightly longer] it was time to take a punt on myself on a scale i havent ever done before. i`v got a very good relationship with a bank manager & i found out i`m good for an unsecured amount of $50k. from my present liability of no real debts that cant be cleaned up in short time & with plenty of potential wages from my new job & a glowing letter from the manager & an 'a' grade credit rating i went for $25k.. which is not going to hurt me too bad if it all falls on its arse & i can make nothing of it all. i do have a safety net on standby too with my quite well off mum willing to give, yes give not lend, me $30-40k in a few months to take it another step up if i so need.

so,,

2 days ago i went & got a quote from my alloy casting fellas & i can say that there is no way on this earth i could make the numbers i need in the time i need em for anywhere near the price they can... to put things into perspective, for me to make one of the castings it costs in hard $`s for lpg gas & other consumables, with time $ factored in at my regular 'work from home' rate [which iv done a lot of at $40+/hr] it would cost roughly $250-300 each. not very cost effective at all if i want a lot of em is it? & i do.
their quote brings each in at $9.00 each,,,, yes nine dollars each!!! u guess which way i`l be going? i`v decided that 100 of both types are what i need, so $1800 is real cheap considering the options dontya think? i just need to get to arrange a time with my thermoplastics fella to get him to make the numbers i need for a reasonable price of course :}. from there its a matter of making a few things to be able to keep my compound in top shape up to the time i use it,,, heated containers made from whatever they need to be that have stirring abilities & are gas tight as i intend to have the surface covered by the correct inert gas at a pressure that can help with the dispensing feed rates, batch mixing equip & racks to stack them while they cure. i have a spare bedroom i can use for the final stages of any trimming up they need for packaging & shipping. this is all before it gets too large for me at home at which time i can then relocate to my mates under-house space [large house too] which he has offered me to use for a year..
yep,, if i wasnt committed before i am now, & it is only going to get harder from now on too. the bux i get as a personal loan is all for bringing this to fruition & not buying toys for myself until it is self supporting [not soon enuf, believe me] or it falls on its arse, so i am still going to be working for this place im at until i need to stop working for them & take it up full time [again] as a profitable venture & not the money-pit it has been so far...
it`l still be a coupla months before i`m ready to start making them but its happening at last, going from an idea in a mates shed to being a step away from a product for sale in such a short time is slightly surreal at times but its happening non-the-less.
cheers from aussieland
rij

DescentBB

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