Page 1 of 1

are YOU a chimera? you may be

Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2006 5:45 am
by roid
was doing some research about Zygotes, Embryos, stemcells, whatnot.... and came across this amazing thingo:

http://www.katewerk.com/chimera.html
New Scientist vol 180 issue 2421 - 15 November 2003, page 34

Human chimeras were once thought to be so rare as to be just a curiosity.
But there's a little bit of someone else in all of us, says Claire
Ainsworth, and sometimes much more...

EXPLAIN this. You are a doctor and one of your patients, a 52-year- old
woman, comes to see you, very upset. Tests have revealed something
unbelievable about two of her three grown-up sons. Although
she conceived them naturally with her husband, who is definitely
their father, the tests say she isn't their biological mother.
Somehow she has given birth to somebody else's children.

This isn't a trick question - it's a genuine case that Margot Kruskall, a
doctor at the Beth Israel Deaconess Medical Center in Boston,
Massachusetts, was faced with five years ago. The patient, who we will
call Jane, needed a kidney transplant, and so her family underwent blood
tests to see if any of them would make a suitable donor. When the results
came back, Jane was hoping for good news.

Instead she received a hammer blow. The letter told her outright that
two of her three sons could not be hers. What was going on?

It took Kruskall and her team two years to crack the riddle. In the end
they discovered that Jane is a chimera, a mixture of two individuals -
non-identical twin sisters - who fused in the womb and grew into a single
body. Some parts of her are derived from one twin, others from the other.
It seems bizarre that this can happen at all, but Jane's is not an
isolated case. Around 30 similar instances of chimerism have been
reported, and there are probably many more out there who will never
discover their unusual origins.

While cases like Jane's are the extreme, researchers now think that
there's a little bit of chimera in all of us, and what was once seen
as a biological oddity may serve a vital function. We may owe our
lives to being chimeras.

...most
probably go through life utterly unaware of their unusual constitution.
\"They are probably dramatically under-diagnosed,\" Kruskall says, \"and also
dramatically rare.\"

...
Animal studies of chimerism suggest that
this is indeed common.
...

But the story doesn't end there. There is growing evidence that chimerism
in one form or another may not be so unusual at all. In fact, some
researchers now think that most of us, if not all, are chimeras of one
kind or another.
Far from being pure-bred individuals composed of a single
genetic cell line, our bodies are cellular mongrels, teeming with cells
from our mothers, maybe even from grandparents and siblings. This may seem
a little shocking at first. The thought of playing host to cells from
other people may offend your sense of individuality. But you may have
those outsiders to thank for keeping you healthy.
...

While microchimerism may force immunologists to rewrite their textbooks,
it may also prod us into seeing ourselves in a new light. Rather than
being isolated individuals, perhaps we should see ourselves more as a
collective - an individual made of many other different individuals. On
one level, you are you, a person with your own thoughts and feelings. But
zoom in one level and you are a supercolony of individual cells, some
cooperating, others competing. Zoom in to the level of your genome, and
you find individual chromosomes and genes, all jostling to get through to
the next round of natural selection. It's all a question of perspective.
O_O wild discoverys eh.
science ftw

Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2006 7:26 am
by Bet51987
Well, it clears up the mystery about Ingus.

Bee

Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2006 8:16 am
by De Rigueur
There was a CSI episode about this a year or so ago. They sampled DNA from different parts a person's body and got different results.

I'm not sure why this is supposed to be shocking. A person's genetic material still comes from his/her parents, right?

Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2006 8:55 am
by roid
De Rigueur wrote:I'm not sure why this is supposed to be shocking. A person's genetic material still comes from his/her parents, right?
well not nessesarily. Your mother may not be your genetic mother per se - your mother's ovaries may actually belong to her non-identical twin sister. In which case, the mother you know would actually be your genetic aunt. And you could actually have more in common genetically with one of her living sisters than her. It brings into question our entire assumed system of parental genetic inheritance!

It's so facinating coz it's like, we arn't singular people. We are an amalgum of twins we never knew about. So even if your mother isn't your mother, she is still your mother. This chimerianism has been going on unbeknowns to humans for probabaly as long as the human race has existed. So technically, such a chimerian mother would entirely fit our culture's definition of "mother" because it's actually always been the real definition of "mother" the entire time. What i'm saying is that this doesn't change how our family units are, as nothing has changed, only our knowledge has changed! so it only changes how we see, perceieve and define ourselves and our genetic familys.

Any "ideal" genetic family you can think of throughout history. Their genetic relationships to one another may infact NOT be as it seems - the "chip off the old block" son may actually be the son of the father's (non-identical) twin! and since we never knew about the possability of such a thing beign possibl before - knowone would have been the wiser!

It just really makes you think, re-evaluate the whole family genetic relations thing. You may have less in common with your parents (as you know them) than you think.

Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2006 10:15 am
by Palzon
wow, the odds that some of you will achieve the elusive ménage à trois just went up dramatically. :P

Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2006 11:30 am
by Birdseye
already done it pal

Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2006 5:59 pm
by Shadowfury333
I don't see how it changes that much, as if your mother's chimeran twin's ovaries produced your egg, there is no aunt to speak of, as that DNA would've fused with that of your mother, thus it is irrelevant as far as parental bonds go.

Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2006 6:48 pm
by Will Robinson
Birdseye wrote:already done it pal
But as Palz alluded to, how many individuals were involved? ;)

Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2006 8:05 pm
by Dedman
Ah yes, the old chimera trick. This was Tyler Hamilton's alibi for blood doping. He got caught with someone else's blood in his system and got banned from professional cycling for two years. He said he could be a chimera but could never prove it.

Posted: Sat Jul 22, 2006 12:08 am
by roid
bolding by me:
Shadowfury333 wrote:I don't see how it changes that much, as if your mother's chimeran twin's ovaries produced your egg, there is no aunt to speak of, as that DNA would've fused with that of your mother, thus it is irrelevant as far as parental bonds go.
What is DNA fusion? As the article explained: Chimeras are where a person is made of the individual cells from 2 or more original Zygotes. The DNA does not fuse, the person is like a Frankenstien made up of different parts from different people - each cell only retains the genetic makeup of it's ONE relevant donor - there are no cells in the Chimera containing a mix of the genetic information of the 2 donors. The Chimera is effectively made up of the individual CELLS of 2 or more people. But the cells themselves are no different to a normal person's cells, they only contain the genetic information of their respective original Zygote.

The mother's ovarys are not her's. It's like a series of radical organ transplants that happen while you are in the womb. You can have your brain, someone else's kidneys, someone else's testes, etcetc.

Posted: Sat Jul 22, 2006 2:06 am
by Duper
...it's in print.. it must be true.

Posted: Sat Jul 22, 2006 2:50 am
by roid
i assure you it is

Posted: Sat Jul 22, 2006 10:31 pm
by Kilarin
Actually, just to make things even weirder. Remember the tradtional story where someone looks EXACTLY like their great great grandmother? There is always a picture hanging on the castle wall to prove it.

Well, part of the whole Chimera debate supports the possible reality of this. The blood barrier between mother and child is not perfect. They do exchange blood. And recent research indicates that almost every one of us may have cells from our mothers in our makeup. AND, since your mother also had cells from HER mother floating around in her blood stream, you might have picked up some of your grandmothers cells. AND, that can keep on going back for generations and generations.

SO, there is a possibility that the ovary that produced a certain child, actually was a genetic chimera from the childs great great great grandmother.