DescentBB

Posted: **Thu Mar 11, 2004 7:42 pm**

Howdy folks !

Considering the diversity of the DBB people, I thought I'd ask here in the E & T column, for your opinions and experiences with the antidepressant drugs known as SSRI's, or "selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors".

Has anyone got any peronal experience with SSRI's they'd like to relate..?

I ask because someone close to me has had a 12 month course of using the SSRI drug called Effexor, and I have seen nothing but bad side effects. In fact I'd say I saw bad "effects" period, no good consequences from being on the lower dose regimen of 75, 32.5 to 18 mg pills over 12 months.

I'm not too concerned with the totally debilitating side effects from stopping taking them cold turkey, those imo involve more physiological reactions, and are well known. I'm talking about the psychological reactions one has to just being on SSRI's, and what happens to one's mind after being weaned off them.

Even after my aquaintance stopped taking them I see persistant consequences. If one Googles "Effexor", up come a littany of articles reporting poor results, like petitions to ban Effexor. And you may have heard lately these drugs have been banned for use by people under 18 years old due to an increase in suicidal thinking when on SSRI's. .. In the most extreme case, you can read about how that woman who drowned her three kids in Texas was on Effexor....

The medical terms I'd say concurr with what I witnessed in this person's behaviour and mental states include: " debilitating inertia", "dysphoric mood", "hypomania", ... and there's the "serotonin syndrome" ... Memory is also affected, in long and short term.

Basically, this person close to me has lost the will to do anything, deal with any stressful issue, plan logically, or make decisions. Her will to do anything to deal with life's issues has been "dissolved".

Without going into all the details about why a perscription for Effexor was given to her, I just wondered if anyone else here might have some personal experience or "wisdom" to share. I am extremely concerned about her well being, and it's not "well" due to these mind F*** drugs...

This is very personal, maybe this isn't the most appropriate place to ask such questions, ... but I thought I'd post just to see what happens...

Posted: **Thu Mar 11, 2004 7:59 pm**

Well, let me give you a brief history.

I had a car accident in 93'(35 yrs old) that resulted in me getting a closed head injury. It caused me to have short term memory problems and a balance problem. It also effected my frontal lobe, causing me to not think about what I would do before I would do it. and it cgave me anger issues. to say the least I was an ★■◆● to live with. After trial and alot of work the doctor finally came up with giving me Inderal ( to expand my blood vessels in my brain) and Prozac. together they work quite well.
Last yr I asked my doctor if there was anything new that would work the same and with less dosing during the day. ( i forget to take my afternoon dose). she asked me to try lexapro also a ssri. To tell you the truth I like the effects of it alot better than prozac and prozac worked great. I have no sifde effects except that I don't get stressed about life I just live it. so to me the drugs are a great benifit. I guess it all depends on the person's mental state. when I don't take my meds im a real prick to live with soto me and my family there a godsend. this problably doesn't really help you but, I was really aprehensive about taking depression drugs. so far they have been a benifet not a crutch.

good luck with your friend

miss diagnosing and getting the wrong drug can be quite devistaing.

Posted: **Thu Mar 11, 2004 8:07 pm**

First and foremost, have her visit her doctor. Make the appointment for her and drive her there. Chances are she may be too lethargic to accomplish even that simple task on her own. SSRIs, as you have noted, have some major nasty side effects when stopped, especially when stopped cold turkey. Here's some things that may accelerate the body's return to it's pre-SSRI self:

-Sunlight, lots of it. Keep those drapes open and get her outside in the sun. Sunlight has an integral role in regulating the sleep cycle (see below).

-Mild exercise, more along the lines of long exploratory walks rather than hardcore exercise. It's best to engage the imagination as well as the body. As often as can be motivated. Take a camera. As morbid as this sounds, old graveyards are fascinating places to visit.

-No drugs or alcohol or cigarettes. An occassional cigar is OK, though.

-Lots and lots of water (with lemon juice is healthier and has some benefits toward cleansing).

-Change of diet. No crap, no coffee, no *drugs* (caffiene, etc.) of any kind (although aspirin is probably OK to thin her blood if she has intermittent loss of feeling in her fingers/toes or her joints get really cold). Cut way down on refined sugar intake and go with natural foods (fruits/veggies) for a while if she doesn't already eat well. Some teas are OK, like green tea and cranberry tea if she's someone who needs something in the morning.

-Fast and/or cleanse. Fasting may have risks to some folks so that should be done with her physician's OK. As far as cleansing, I don't know much about that but I've been told it's a sure-fire way to purge alot of toxins from the body in a short amount of time.

-Read. I know massive ADD tends to accompany withdrawal and she may not even remember what she read in three days due to the impact SSRI withdrawal has on memory but it's an exercise as much as anything, so something light and interesting (a book, not magazine articles) is what I'd recommend.

-Proper sleep cycle needs to be re-established. She needs to force herself to avoid catnapping, if she is so prone (although in the early part of withdrawal catnapping is probably a good thing as the mind needs what only sleep can provide).

-Challenge her existentially. Heh. Easier said than done but it will help if she considers a perspective like this: *She is living her life for a second time and she is about to make the same mistake again.* She needs to break the little self-defeating behaviors and vicious cycles, but the main one right now is the longer she remains inert the more difficult it will be to regain motion as she atrophies both mentally and physically. An important component right now, imo, is for her to connect to something very basic (a simple project, a creative outlet, a new kitten/puppy, a sport/activity, a cause, volunteer work, etc.) to stop her isolation. Keep it simple, fun, stress-free and easy to accomplish. SSRIs (when the proper one is prescribed) provide a sort of faux meaning to life. That is gone now. The term to describe what she is probably experiencing is *existential vacuum* and some meaning, however small for the moment, needs to fill it.

-Music. Classical music is great to have in the background because it is much less distracting than beat-based music and it fills the silence with a certain necessary *order*. From what I've been told, babies love Mozart.

* * *

Basically the body has alot of that crap still in it, imo, even though the shelflife of SSRIs is only about a month, as well as her body has to be forced to re-regulate serotonin on it's own. It rebels at the chore. Without the artificial means to keep serotonin in her system she probably has even less now than before she went on the SSRI. Therefore she is currently at more risk than before, imo, until her body can regain its *balance* naturally. It will take some time, so be patient (assuming it doesn't appear to be life-threatening).

It's also common, I understand, to use Wellbutrin as a way of easing off SSRIs but I have no knowledge of that firsthand. FYI, my experience is with Celexa.

Posted: **Thu Mar 11, 2004 9:29 pm**

My friend was caught cutting himself and was put on some sort of anti-depressant drug (not sure if it was SSRIs or not). The thing really seemed to work, not only while he was taking it but since he's gotten off of it he's really improved. The only visible side effect I saw from it (no joke) was if you left him alone in a room with a girl for 5 minutes, they would be making out when you got back. It was a sorta wierd side effect, but yeah it really seemed to help.

Posted: **Thu Mar 11, 2004 9:42 pm**

Now that's a side effect I want!

I've read that that isn't uncommon with folks who have tried to kill themselves and failed. Often they obtain a heightened appreciation for life as a result and become motivated to live it more fully and take more risks.

Posted: **Fri Mar 12, 2004 12:20 am**

my psych explains it to me something like this: suicidal thoughts can come from it because the seretonin adds a certian amount of MOTIVATION to your thoughts. so in the early stages of taking it, a seriously depressed person who is suicidal can unfortunately find that they suddenly (thanks to the seretonin) HAVE THE MOTIVATION TO CARRY IT OUT. so this is where the danger lies.

i'm currently on 100mg Zoloft (it's a SSRI). and it's really hard to orgasm

(a known and annoying side effect of SSRIs). supposedly what is required is a sudden DROP in brain seretonin, and while you're on SSRIs this can't happen. haha. oh well. C'est la vie

i have been watching this REALLY interesting 3 part documentary series on TV called "Primal Insticts" (anger, happiness, fear). i really recommend it. as a result i know exactly what bash is talking about with the anger, seretonin and the frontal lobe

(documentary was amazingly informative).
anger, happiness, fear.
(hey look you can buy it)

my memory and ability to concentrate was shot before i ever started on SSRI meds. supposedly the SSRIs will help in this respect, it's early days (only 6-7weeks) still so i'm still tweaking my doseage.

(ps: trivia: Prozac was one of the first SSRI meds

)

i think the rate of people who suffer from depression is 1 in 4. if your friend is on SSRIs chances are she needs them because she has signs of low seretonin levels. don't treat it trivially and try to ween her off it "for her own good".

we're not talking caffine here.

Posted: **Fri Mar 12, 2004 3:04 am**

... Wow ... ! SSRI's are nothing I know of personally, but you have said so much, ... .. . .. All of you...

... .. The evil of SSRI's and caffeine ! .. Yes I say is a primary antagonistic ! and much more seems to fuddle the focus...

... Existence, Music, why you have a body,... .. primay instinct to plug back in the brain-frontal lobe stuff... . ... I would only fumble to try to say how complicated it is when the dopamine and serotonin sytems are at work... with these "uptake retarding drugs...".

And whatever the SSRI, ... 30 to 300 mg affects everyone differently, ... I have no direct experience with SSRI's... I have just this trying-to-figure-it-out-from the "outside" .. view...

Dose and type of drug are crucial... one tenth of what you "need" won't help, ... but what would ten times too much do ?...

My friend has quit Effexor, .. .. I am just watching, and trying to help... Eat meat, veggies and exercise, ... imo ... sleep enough and reduce stress inducers....

Posted: **Fri Mar 12, 2004 7:29 am**

i would think that coldturkey withdrawl from SSRIs would cause a MASSIVE drop in teh levels of seretonin.
seretonin = a "happy" brain chemical that promotes "inner peace" and basic ability to concentrate and think things through.

a massive drop in seretonin wouldn't be good, i'd be watching for suicidal thoughts.

an overdose of Zoloft (an SSRI) is funny (mind you, i find psychosis facinating). i once saw it happen to this guy on a medical documentary.
you go completely bonkers. hulucinations, complete psychosis. you eventually come outof it though (assuming no brain damage or stroke) and return to normal.
the guy in question was found barking like a dog in front of his apartment building. then in hospital he thought he was debating politics with 2 dead presidents (but he was actually being questioned by the trauma doctors as to what meds he had taken) until the effects wore off. it was damn funny to watch.

Posted: **Fri Mar 12, 2004 8:22 am**

In 1997 after I was diagnosed with clinical depression I started taking Prozac. It worked well. The only side effect that I noticed was a fairly marked decrease in my libido. About 2 years ago I switched over to Wellbutrin. I also works very well with much less of the afore-mentioned side effect.

If your friend is experiencing severe side effects as you say, they really need to see a doctor.

I hope this helps.

Posted: **Fri Mar 12, 2004 8:43 am**

Of note is that the common *remedy* for severe withdrawal symptoms is the person should resume taking the SSRI and taper off at a slower rate than previously attempted. My suggestions above are meant to assist if the person chooses instead to ride it out.

Posted: **Fri Mar 12, 2004 10:17 am**

Sounds like I need to get a prescription for some of this stuff...

They didn't have all this crap when I was a kid, atleast not to the extent that they do now. Perhaps if I could focus more, think clearly and not be overly depressed all the time I might actually DO something with my life.

Posted: **Fri Mar 12, 2004 11:02 am**

I agree with what Bash said. I have a couple of other things though.

Avoid TV. It's generally a bad thing to sit in one place and space out when you're depressed. Computer games are a bit better snce they're interactive but still not so good, and surfing is the same as TV.

I always like to reccommend boxing/martial arts, but anything compedative (physical is best) AND NEW is a good plan, especially if it can be taken as seriously as you want. Do it together. Stuff she used to do isn't so great, since she'll invariably not be so good as she once was, but if you get her into something she can learn, practice, and win at, it will help. Archery isn't bad either, if she's not up to the more rough and tumble stuff, but I really do tihnk some form of martial art is best, since the forms and excercises are good for practicing on your own. If you go martial arts, try and get a good style and ask around as to how seriously the club's owner takes it (he doesn't have to be asian

). A hard style from southern china or the japanese islands (not mainland karate bleh) is probably best, as they generally don't require a pile of flexibility or goofyness. Ask about sparring, preferably semi-contact.

Speak in the positive declarative. The subconcious drops the negative from stuff like "don't", so saying "don't do that" is as good as saying "do do that" when concious logic isn't a part of the equation. The declarative implies everything is under control, and also stops a lot of mollygagging. "We are going out now" is infinitely better than "I suppose we should head out" and creates far less problems than "would you like to go out?". It sounds silly, but it's true. For the same reasons, try to focus on what she should do now, rather than what she should stop doing now. She should take an interest in a new hobby, not she should quit moping around.

That's pretty much all I have, hope it helps.

Posted: **Sat Mar 13, 2004 12:35 pm**

... Again, thanks for the ideas folks, .. . Everyone is different, the issues that precipitate depression are always different, .. the drugs work differently... amazing that we call the application of these Meds "scientific" when the outcomes can vary so much..

My friend has apparently been off the Efefxor for 4 months... I wonder if the current "state" she's in is a series of side effects, or it points out how she might need to resume a more beneficial SSRI.

Counselling to go with the experiences of the SSRIs: I think the two should be perscribed together... leaving the SSRI's to do their thing all on their own is so unpredictable. ...

Posted: **Sat Mar 13, 2004 11:12 pm**

update: these SRIIs have me so fidgety and restless i'm almost tearing my skin/hair off.

Posted: **Tue Mar 16, 2004 1:19 am**

I've been on SSRIs for about a year now, I think...
Was suffering some medium depression - started on Cipramil, which was switched to Citalopram (a cheaper Cipramil clone) which in turn made me incredibly drowsy, so I got switched to Zoloft. Currently on 75mg Zoloft daily. It's hard to say how well it helps considering you can't easily compare to anything (I had the unfortunate experience just the other day of having missed it for two days in a row - they aren't kidding about the withdrawal effects; for about half a day I was alternatingly crying and contemplating suicide). My memory is shot, from the depression or the drugs I can't say. Tend to forget things I've promised to do, and it's not very easy telling one week apart from another (not that they are very different anyhow).

The blame should probably not be placed on the drugs, but rather on the society where such drugs are required, let alone common.

Posted: **Tue Mar 16, 2004 1:37 am**

I've come to conclude anti-depressants are overprescribed. I think the fear is if someone goes to their physician and admits to being depressed (or displays classic symptoms of depression, as was my case) that automatically the alarms go off that this person might kill themselves and that as their doctor, the physician becomes potentially legally liable if the patient were to actually commit suicide. As a result, I believe, most doctors immediately roll out the big guns, the SSRIs, which pretty much de-motivate folks to do anything, let alone something as rash as suicide. In my experience with Citalopram (aka Celexa), not only does one not care about anything (look, ma, no anxiety!) but one doesn't care that one doesn't care. That's limbo, that's a sort of waking sleep, a life on hold. Looking back, I believe the cure was worse than the disease.

Posted: **Tue Mar 16, 2004 1:43 am**

It is your own mental state in dealing with society that leads to needing such drugs, not society that forces you to take them, remember that

Depression stems from you letting yourself become wrapped up in everything being bad or pointless or useless and so on and so forth. Having suffered severe points of depression myself and am still somewhat experiencing lapses in mental stability while under no medications of any kind other then painkillers for my knees and back, I know what it is like to be caught up in the things that go on in this world and in your own personal life.

It is how you deal with it in your head though that makes the difference. Depression stems from being so fed up with everything that you have no control over that you feel like it isn't worth existing any longer. If you don't let yourself be bothered by everything and anything that is lame out in the world or in your personal life, depression can be avoided without medication for most people.

From my stand point I'd rather not get onto a drug to fix my problems because they seem to lead to a lot more problems in the long run. I'd rather not think about the possibility of me actually going through with suicide from being off a drug for more then a few days. It shouldn't ever come to that. Life is what you make of it.

If this made any sense at all, good

Posted: **Tue Mar 16, 2004 1:57 am**

Ty, as I touched on earlier, I agree with you that the larger issue with many people's lives is an inability to detect meaning. This is especially true in America where Madison Avenue does it's best to convince us that life's meaning can be found in a particular brand name, in a nice car, in a big house, in a fat bank account. All those things are fine but they hold only an ethereal meaning and for some of us it's not enough to sustain us. America, unfortunately, doesn't have the philosophical depth or resources that many other parts of the world possess. Personally, I think that's what has made us such a self-centered, violent society. Everyone's asking for what they want from life but no one's asking what life wants from them. Problem is, if you start asking the tough questions of your life it frequently leads to a prescription for SSRIs.

Posted: **Tue Mar 16, 2004 9:32 am**

interesting, some of you are describing your SSRI sideeffects. but i was already having these effects before i ever started medicating. in fact this is WHY i am medicating, to combat these things (that you call sideeffects) that seem to be occuring NATURALLY in me.

ie: your sideeffects, are my symptoms. o_O
wtf

oh and tyr i would probabaly agree with you if i hadn't experienced what i have. my life hasn't really changed too much in the past few years. yet my ability to concentrate and my memory have plumeted, somewhat suddenly (since 2-3 years ago). sure i have stresses in my life but nothing i can't handle, nothing as far as i'm concerned that can cause something like this.

as far as i'm currently concerned, it's just a biological chem imbalence. you know, like a disease.
take insulin to lower blood sugars, take SSRIs to raise seretonin levels. what's the diff.
it's not a copout. it's a treatable chemical imbalence and a real (ie: not in our minds) problem.

Posted: **Tue Mar 16, 2004 11:58 am**

I was talking about depression in general as it relates to being brought on by society, which I don't feel is the case. Chemical imbalance is a whole other beast in and of itself and yes, does contribute to a lot of things that make it difficult to find meaning in your life and an ability to justify the world around you.

Posted: **Tue Mar 16, 2004 12:49 pm**

bash's post just went missing for some reason, so here it is.

roid, I agree with you as well (I feel like John Kerry ) in that some folks derive beneficial results from SSRIs. Most depressions are caused by a chemical imbalance. A humbling reality SSRIs revealed to me is that it is vain to think of ourselves or our personalities as anything more than a chemical *cocktail*. Change that cocktail and we become different people. The falsehood you touch on, however, is that your personality/mind shifts were ocurring naturally. In my opinion, unless you were on a strict natural diet, nothing is ocurring naturally. Many of the foods we eat, the water we drink and habits we form (nicotine/alcohol/recreational drugs) are already altering the cocktail in unknown ways even if we don't realize it or want to believe it.

exactly, where do you draw the line between what's natural and what's unnatural. does one deserve drugs and another not?

★■◆● the line.

lines are drawn by ignorant people who live in perfect worlds.

Posted: **Tue Mar 16, 2004 5:15 pm**

Heh, it didn't go missing. I deleted it right after I posted it because I didn't feel it added anything to the discussion.

Anyway, it isn't a matter of one person deserving drugs and one not. My point was, just like government and money, science continues to throw drugs on top of drugs in an attempt to fix a situation when a very real possibility exists that the cures (as well as our lifestyles) are the very things causing the problem. In my opinion, before anyone enters into that cycle of *drugs on top of drugs* they might be better served by removing the drugs and toxins already in their systems.

As far as where I draw the line between natural and unnatural, offhand I would say anything that is man-made should be avoided in a self-treatment (i.e., drink pure water, eat fruits and vegetables, strenghthen the body through exercise). If after a month or two no improvement is detected, then a man-made alternative should be considered, but not before. I have more faith in the body's ability to heal and regulate itself when left on it's own than of one person who's just met me opinion of what ails me and what might help alleviate that distress. Altering the mind's chemical balances is not like setting a broken arm. SSRIs, by and large, are still evolving and each of us that take them are part of an ongoing experiment. When that realization arrives that your physician is really just guessing at what might help you then you also realize that your guess is about as good as theirs.

Posted: **Wed Mar 17, 2004 3:18 am**

haha you're not wrong. my psych was actually asking ME what i'd like to take and then listed off a bunch of stuff until i said "hey i've heard of that one".

then he gave me that.

lol he's basically my dealer

(i don't fault him for it though, i'm just as keen as him to see what cool effects "that button over there" does)

Posted: **Wed Mar 17, 2004 4:00 am**

unfortunately even the fruits and veggies these days (unless you grow them yourself) are liable to have some sort of chemical effect on you with all the junk they use to grow stuff bigger and badder. Even purified water (bottled) is a crock because they add in extra minerals while removing harmful ones. Some even add in salt which tastes like a

ss when you get down to the bottom. While that probably isn't harmful I don't need salt that I can taste in my water kthxu

It is a different story with a home filter though even though I still don't see, depending on where you live, that the regular tap is going to kill you and me just yet. It is really hard to avoid getting anything that hasn't been touched and altered by man in some way or another anymore.

Posted: **Wed Mar 17, 2004 11:52 am**

El Ka Bong wrote:Basically, this person close to me has lost the will to do anything, deal with any stressful issue, plan logically, or make decisions. Her will to do anything to deal with life's issues has been "dissolved".

Makes me wonder if that's related to the reason she started taking the meds more than the meds or withdrawals.

In any case, I hope she gets fine.

Tyranny wrote:From my stand point I'd rather not get onto a drug to fix my problems because they seem to lead to a lot more problems in the long run.

Drugs don't fix problems but they can give the mind the peace it needs to fix itself.

Posted: **Thu Mar 18, 2004 2:34 pm**

.... here's a list of side effects from SSRI's:

http://www.prozactruth.com/sideeffects.htm

As an "observer" not taking the pills, I saw so many of these side effects in my friend. Does anyone care to comment further..?

Posted: **Thu Mar 18, 2004 11:46 pm**

those side effects are pretty common situations for non-medicated mental patients anyway.

i mean, on the zoloft page, of the effects i had that were listed on that page, most of them i had BEFORE i ever started zoloft.

this site is selling detox programs. they say such things as "DRUGS are chemicals. CHEMICALS are poisons. POISONS are toxic. find out what to do about it, click here". this is a pretty stupid statement.

i'd be careful of what you believe from this site.
it's obvious to me the owners of this site are NOT doctors in any form. and they seem a little TOO alarmist to me, you know, the kindof thing snopes.com exists to counter.
but still, that's not to say you can't get anything outof the site. i found the sideeffect list interesting

(yet lacking clinical procedure)

on their front page it says:

Do I have to be a Medical Doctor, Psychiatrist or Psychologist to come to correct conclusions regarding SSRI's and their effects on people and society? I do not think so...
blahblah
..."Slavery Of Mankind By Psychiatry Is NOT An Option"..

heh

Posted: **Fri Mar 19, 2004 12:19 am**

Yes, aside from the obvious about any self promoting web sites, ... ( dredge the Internet with Google !)....That's what I mean about serotonergic and dopaminergic brain chemistry. With drugs that affect you this way, it's super-subtly easy to make life and experience go " weird" ... : ... Common things about personality may go awry, ... way out, way too thin or dilute, ... Hyper concentrated and pumped up. ... to none at all... just depending on who you are... and what the environment is giving you...

.... But now, my cure, will be !... Burning Indica 3 on PXO !

Triple Barney's too all of you !

Posted: **Fri Mar 19, 2004 12:36 am**

yeah this is why a psych should always be supervising your psych meds. or lack of psych meds.

hmm, these triple barney pills make me feel kinda "explodey" and "all over the place"

Posted: **Mon Mar 22, 2004 10:48 am**

Suicide Caution Sought for Antidepressants

By LAURAN NEERGAARD, AP Medical Writer

WASHINGTON - Patients on some popular antidepressants should be closely monitored for warning signs of suicide, the government warned Monday in asking the makers of 10 drugs to add the caution to their labels.

Although the Food and Drug Administration (news - web sites)'s investigation into the possible suicide connection initially focused on children given the drugs, its warning is aimed at both adult and pediatric use of the pills to alleviate depression.

It isn't clear yet that the drugs actually do lead to suicide, the FDA stressed. After all, depression itself can lead to suicide.

But until that is settled, advisers to the FDA called last month for stronger warnings to doctors and parents that the antidepressants may cause agitation, anxiety and hostility in a subset of patients who may be unusually prone to rare side effects.

On Monday, the FDA followed its advisers' recommendation and issued a public health advisory putting doctors, patients, families and other caregivers on notice to be particularly vigilant for signs of worsening depression or suicidal thoughts at the beginning of anti-depressant therapy or whenever the dose is changed.

The drugs of concern are all newer-generation antidepressants: Prozac, Paxil, Zoloft, Effexor, Celexa, Remeron, Lexapro, Luvox, Serzone and Wellbutrin. Most are known to affect the brain chemical serotonin.

British health authorities sounded the alarm last year, saying long-suppressed research suggests certain antidepressants might sometimes increase the risk of suicidal behavior in children and teenagers. Because only one drug, Prozac, has been proven to alleviate pediatric depression, Britain declared others â?? drugs called SSRIs and their close relatives â?? unsuitable for depressed youth.

The FDA issued a caution on pediatric use last year, but Monday's action â?? especially the addition of the warning to drug labels â?? goes significantly further.

Dozens of anguished parents pleaded with FDA in a meeting last month to add such warnings, citing preteens and teenagers who hanged themselves or slashed their wrists shortly after starting the antidepressants. Parent after parent described children who had become extremely agitated or anxious shortly after starting the antidepressants, and seemingly sudden impulses that turned deadly.

Among 25 studies of the suspect medications involving 4,000 children and teens, there were no completed suicides. But 109 patients experienced one or more possibly suicide-related behaviors or attempts, the FDA says.

The studies varied dramatically in what was considered suicidal behavior, making a clear link difficult, FDA scientists have contended. For example, among 19 patients classified as cutting themselves, almost all were superficial, with little bleeding.

Worse, the youths most likely to commit suicide weren't allowed into those studies, so existing data likely won't settle the issue, the FDA's scientific advisers have warned.

Depression occurs in up to 10 percent of youth, and 1,883 10- to 19-year-olds killed themselves in 2001. Some 1.8 million teenagers attempted suicide that year, a quarter of them requiring medical attention, according to Columbia University scientists who are helping the FDA's probe.

In 2002, almost 11 million prescriptions were dispensed to patients under 18 for SSRIs and other newer antidepressants, to treat depression and a host of other conditions, FDA said.

Posted: **Mon Mar 22, 2004 11:49 am**

I was going to post what Bash did ^^^^. I don't know much about SSRI's, but that article seems pretty relevant to the thread.

Posted: **Tue Mar 23, 2004 1:10 am**

my psych told me about the possible suicidal sideeffects* of SSRIs before i took them, and said to watch out for them. i think everyone who should know (doctors, and therefore their patients) already knows.

*opps i already said this in an earlier post

if you ask me, it's a completely understandable sideeffect considering the fragility of the patients, and it's a manageable risk (ie: "take these and call me if you feel suicidal, it may be caused by the meds").

DescentBB

SSRI long term side effects

SSRI long term side effects

Re: SSRI long term side effects